A nice informational video abou getting realistic results when playing other instruments on your keyboard.

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/369/playing-instruments-on-keyboard

Thank you Bachus, very informative. I must remember to get away from the split LH chord and RH melody when not using accomp., or use chord sequencer.

Great Video.
Thanks
Eric

Bachus good video on a much overlooked subject.

Thank you, John C.

I think he overlooked something very important that a lot of people forget, even though it's stating the obvious.
You must play within the range of the instrument you are emulating. Sax, trumpet, harmonica, banjo, etc., have a limited range of notes that they can play, and even some of them vary. For instance Tenor Sax, Alto, Sax, Baritone... have different ranges of notes. When you start playing outside those ranges the realism can't be achieved.
The most important thing he said was to use your ears. Listen to the real instruments and play something that sounds like that!
He didn't get into pitch bend, modulation or joy stick use very much, but it is greatly important in emulating most instruments. That involves not only proper usage of the wheels, but also how and when you move your hand from the chords to the wheels. Chord sequencer helps a lot of course; then you don't have to worry about it.
It's great that modern arrangers have a lot of the nuances built in, or available through touch, fingering or buttons, while evidently the Kurtzweiler samples don't.
How would like to have to push three or four buttons to call up a sound, like he did?!!
He sure is a good player!

Do a search I have talked about is subject so many times thru the years here on SZ its a pet peeve of mine...
knowing how to play and instrument on a keyboard correctly in a way that is within it's perimeters is an art form in itself that's must be mastered first......you can't play a sound of an instrument on KB that could never be done if it was played on that instrument in the first place if you get my drift..

Thank You Bachus.

Funny how all keyboard players want to sound like a guitar player, and guitar players are happy with their instrument, and don't want to sound like a keyboard.

Good video, Bachus. And, I tend to agree with Don Mason on this subject. I am amazed at the number of times that I hear someone play a brass instrument on the keyboard as if the player never ran out of breath.

Thanks again,

Gary

Here a chart of the natural ranges of instruments and voices..




It quickly shows we tend to play many instruments above their range..
I think Roland therefor transposes many instruments and octave down..
Also on my pa4x many right hand voices in keyboardsets are transposed down an octave..

I cannot picture playing a trumpet with a piano in mind. Each instrument favors a style. A sax is expressive and uses scales. A trumpet is trying to reach that high not unlike the sax. And playing out of range – As you go out of range the instrument no longer sounds like the instrument. My biggest problem is trying to make a country guitar sound like a country guitar –ala Don.

From the beginning I tried to make my keyboard sound like the original instrument. I am not exalting myself here, it is just the way I was taught to think.

No I am not a Sinatra, but I have been told I phrase my singing in the same way. I must have been listening. My favorite guitar player was Johnny Smith. Got every record he recorded; saw him play many times. There were many books on his style of playing; never bought a one. But right up to today you can hear his style it in my playing. Listening.

I am in agreement with what has been written here; it’s all about listening.

John C.
PS, as soon as I can get my act together I am going to post some songs and then wait for suggestions of how to improve. It’s a fantastic way to improve. In the Kn7000 days Bebop started one-song-for –twenty. You sent him one song and he sent you twenty songs that were recorded by other members. Great idea. I vote that Donny start something along the same line, he is always here. (smile)

"My biggest problem is trying to make a country guitar sound like a country guitar –ala Don. "
Only way to do is have your heart broken many times, or at least have a dog stolen.

Don my wife is a dog lover and she read your post -- now she won’t talk to me.

John C.

Maybe she is but in high frequencies that only dogs can hear

Bachus....I read this when you first posted. I waited to reply to see how many members would be interested in the video. Very encouraging to see so many members ARE interested in further honing their skills.

I don't know where you found this but I'm glad you did. I studied it for days and got so good at playing guitar parts on the keyboard that Don Mason came to me for lessons!

Mark

Arent we all allways looking to improve our skills, from beginner to advanced, there is allways room for improvement...

However, its much harder to discuss playing skills then it is to discuss technollogy, partly because everyone is at its own level, but also becaus ethere are way less video's and examples around... its so much easier to discuss hardware..

Glad you could help Don Mason with his playing skills. Asuming you are not joking, everyone can learn a thing or two from everyone else, as long as he is open to it and ready to learn...

Nigel you have a good point, nice insight. I believe in prayer and my favorite prayer is:

“Dear Lord, please make my wife love me like she loves the dog”. Hey, no smiling here, this is serious. (smile)

John C.

Hey, we all can use some help! But I think Mark had his tongue in his cheek! He'd be teaching me accordion licks.

I WAS joking!!! I hope Don sees this disclaimer before he puts out a "contract" on my life!!!



I don't know......I've had to go it alone most of my career. I have a lot of musicians friends, though many who I know only casually, who are not "ready to learn" and refuse to talk "music" talk or get together and trade ideas or even work themselves on getting better and reaching maximum potential. Now that I think of it, I've had so little inspiration (from anyone) over the years, that's probably why I've lost my own ambitions and desires to make better music.

Many are only too happy to play and try and impress you with their playing abilities but few are willing to get together and share knowledge and ideas.

Wow, I must be living on mars. Every Friday at 10:30 AM I visit my 93 old friend and we play guitar and exchange music ideas. At 8AM on the same day I meet with a sax player I have known for many years. We do very little small talk; our conversation is mostly about music and how to.

I traded music with four men who are no longer with us. Music made our friendship stronger. They all gave me their Kn7000 keyboards when they passed away. The Technics jams here in Florida were all about sharing their knowledge. I went home with CD filled with other people’s knowledge.

Bill Norrie created a website so we could share each other’s music and ideas.

There are musicians out there who loved to share.

John C.
PS, I have tried to bring harmonizing a song to Synthzone but it went nowhere. I find playing the chords that are written are boring without taste.

John, if I had to guess it's where I live......a very impersonal part of the world. My mother used to say: "nobody's going to tell you to shine your shoes so you look better than me." I say, no one around here dares to talk music around here......they're paranoid....you might become better than them! At least I have the satisfaction of knowing what Frank Sinatra knows......"I did it.......my way."




Where, where where?



Where, where where?



I'm doing a lot of chord substitution lately, but I've seen some "chord substitutions" that looks like Albert Einstein did them. I envy those musicians who have that kind of musical imagination. I'm not one of them.

Mark you’ll find Bill Norrie here in the Technics section of Synthzone.

Because I started as a guitar player I know a lot about chords. I studied chord theory with Joe Monk; he had my interest on the first lesson when he took “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” and turned it into a jazz tune. In my studies he had me add a chord change on every beat. I would not play the song that way, it was only a study. I learn that my chords had to tell a story; make a statement. Just strumming the chords was a no no.

We were playing in a club when I learned my next lesson. A female jazz singer was asked to sing a song with my band, Bass, Drums, Accordion, and my guitar. The singer asked the Accordion not to play. I asked why. Her reply: Accordion players normally voice their chords with the melody on the top giving me no freedom to sing what I am feeling.

The good news Mark is what I have is yours – no charge.
John C.

Thats still a mistake i hear quite some OMB's make... playing the meoldy and singing on top of that..

Learning how to comp a singer is an art form in itself, it takes years of experience learning how to "sit in the pocket" volume wise & and when to play solo, lead etc..