I want to thank Alec for the excellent post that is truly full of enlightmenent. I do understand where you are coming from Alec, and I certainly agree with what you are saying here. Maybe we are all inadvertantly suspect in the use of commercial files but I doubt very much if there is malice involved.
I know that when i receive a song that I can play in my instrument, and it triggers another song in my mind, I generally clear the sequencer and use whatever style is there to record my next new song. On occasion I buy a styles disk and record songs that are brought to mind by the style and I share this song with others as well as put it on a CD. I don't consider this to be a violation of a copyright although it certainly could be construed to be if the original song I received was. I don't recall ever seeing a copyright notice on a technics style or song using a technics style.
This is really a gray area and maybe we need to definately clarify it before we have another problem at this site. I would like to hear from Nigel just exactly what guidelines we should follow here and then ask each member to self police, to meet that requirement. We do not want to creat problems on this site. We don't want to censor either so each person needs to be responsible for themselves.
Thank you Alec for once again sharing your expertise with us. We do appreciate hearing from you.


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BEBOP
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdi...=1000&SUBMIT=Go

Messages with blatant copyright infringement and piracy will be removed as stated in the "Registration" agreement when everyone signed on. Other than that there really is no censorship other than that offensive words are automatically blocked by the BBS software. On the rare occasion I will remove a thread that is totally inane but it is very infrequently that I need to do that.

The files you exchange between eachother privately is entirely your own business. I don't store files here at the BBS so it is not my responsibility.

Just be aware that, for example, if you post a request for a commercial software package or style disk, it is quite likely that that posting will disappear pretty quickly without any explanation provided. Most members using the BBS have the sense to know what they should post publicly and I only get about one of these postings each year that I need to delete. If you want to ask someone something that may not be entirely legal then simply email them rather than post it publicly. Just common sense.

Hi Nigel, Thank you for clarifying the situation re. swapping files which members have created. It is refreshing to be a member of a forum which is not subject to petty censorship which prohibits us from letting others share, and maybe enjoy, our individual creative 'talents' The great majority of the guys who used to post on the other site, had no intention of infringing any copyright or pirating commercially produced discs. It was purely a case of musicians, good or less good, wishing to let others hear what they could do. I am not aware of any instance of copyrighted commercial software being offered freely on the other site but that may be due to my not visiting the site every day, and missing the posting before it was deleted. As you say, it is only common sense not to post such an offer on a public site. We all know that illegal copies of software are made and hands on hearts, can any member of the forum honestly say that they have never participated ?
I am sure that all members who have recently joined your forum, will respect your 'Terms and Conditions' and make the forum a really enjoyable club.
Thank you for for allowing us all to participate in your forums.


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Willum

It seems this still needs clarification.
I was clearly not talking about a few odd styles in http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum25/HTML/000317.html

Styles remain the copyright of the creator/manufacturer, even those preset into the instruments, in the same way that songs have a copyright owner.

But no-one makes a fuss about using a preset style in a song or a conversion, with the possible exception of the example I quoted with the new Yamaha styles, which were posted in their entirety. Likewise a composer is not going to chase someone playing their song in Technics format, and sent to a few friends.

So it is most unlikely that anyone will be upset with your personal easy-record type performances using preset styles, or the odd style from a disk. That’s what the pleasure from the keyboards is for, after all, and there is no point in buying the machine if you don’t make music on it.
There is a maybe difference in degree between internal styles, and a retail style disk which is sold as an add-on.
If you distributed an entire retail style disk with your performances, it may be frowned upon rather more, since by switching the sequencer off you have the original style disk.

So this talk of swapping your own performances using presets or your own performance using the odd disk style etc is just a diversion.

This is clearly not what I was talking about; I mentioned the distribution of an entire retail disk not only of styles but of professionally produced sequences, played by someone else.

This has nothing to do with sharing your own performances, and I am most surprised that the moderator should not know what I mean.


[This message has been edited by technicsplayer (edited 01-21-2002).]

Thank you NIGEL. There is the answer folks. He owns the store and he has the last word. Lets pay attention. It doesn't need any further clarification. What you do in your e-mail is your own business. If somebody wants to sue you for copyright infringement that is their business and will also be your business. Use your head and you probably won't have any problems. I hold many copyrights. I write many songs. I have developed and sampled sounds. Yes I have also used other peoples work both with and without their permission, unless it shows a copyright or I am advised by them it is copyrighted (c). I freely give up all propietary rights to my work when I give it to you other then the commercial use of which orginizations I belong to will collect royalties for me. When you put your intelluctual work into the public domain you are giving up certain propietary rights unless you mark your work with your copyright, and/or attach a copyright notice to it.
That is all I have to say on the matter and I think this subject has been covered and should be a read and heed subject and then we can get on with the making of music and sharing it with each other.
Incidently I want to thank all those that have shared their music with me. Most all of it is really excellent, well thought out, well arranged and shows the devotion of our Technics Player/owners. Best to all of you. My further posts will only have to do with music and application and I hope that will be the case with others. We are pleased that you all came here and it looks like this forum is now assured of success. Let us not mess it up. Thank you to all.

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BEBOP
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdi...=1000&SUBMIT=Go

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 01-20-2002).]

Is it the moderator's job to decide when a subject is closed?

I thought this was the new, no-censorship, much-superior-to-Technote site, where we could discuss subjects freely?

technicsplayer, what you refer to is obviously copyright infringement and piracy which as I mentioned isn't allowed to be promoted in postings.

People must realise that undermining artists that create software and styles simply kills the market for these products and diminshes the available range of options for consumers in the long run.

The reason I don't provide an archive for styles here at Synth Zone is simply to avoid the legal complications of distributing files that may be covered by copyright.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-21-2002).]

thank you very much, Nigel.

that was exactly what I was talking about all along, as was abundantly clear.

Continually manipulating the argument back to your own performances was only a smokescreen. Nobody objects to your own performances. It's obviously a good idea to engender enthusiasm and encouragement to others.

But the haste with which this subject seemed to be wished to be swept under the carpet did seem rather ironic compared to the voluble critism of censorship elsewhere...


by the way, in case there is any confusion over titles, I was addressing the moderator of this forum, not Nigel.



[This message has been edited by technicsplayer (edited 01-22-2002).]

No problem technicsplayer. I am a software engineer at my day job so am only too aware of how piracy can affect the survival of smaller businesses.

And BEBOP could have closed this thread at anytime but chose to allow me to restate my position. He got the point from my original posting regarding what I thought was acceptable so felt it didn't need further discussion. So censorship really wasn't an issue here. All the same I wanted it to be clear to all BBS users.

Let me know if you ever decide to sell your Technics styles online and I'll gladly provide you with a link from Synth Zone. I will always support 3rd party music products.

Anyway this thread is NOW pretty much finished so I may just close it myself. Nuff said


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-25-2002).]

Thank you again, Nigel.