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#437055 - 09/06/17 07:30 AM Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
If you sing and play arranger keyboard how many sounds do you really need?....I know some of you will be shocked but personally I don't use or need that many sounds or styles when performing. First off I am a singer who uses an arranger keyboard to back myself up and replace my band of which I was a part of for 30 years since the mid 1960s and played 3 or 4 KBs stacked before arrangers were ever introduced Vox Continental, Hammond B3, Rhodes, Juno 60, Arp Omni, Korg M1, etc, after the band broke up I wanted to still play but have that same band sound I enjoyed then in the early 1980s I discovered Korg's First Arranger KB The SAS 20 (shown below) and from then on never looked back as a OMB till today with my KORG Pa4x.
My approach using an arranger is this,......
I think of it as a small 7 pc band like I used to have with a drummer/perc, bass player, sax, Brass, guitar, keyboard, backup singer, Lead Singer (me).....now if you as a band these are the instruments you would always use for YOUR BAND job after job.You have your own sound and style with your music using these 7 performers using a few sounds...the songs might change but the sound is pretty much the same depending on the song,....in my user banks I use only a certain amount of custom sounds for MY band around for RH accomp, great Hammond B3, Trumpet, Growl sax, Tenor/Alto Sax section ensemble, Brass section, Stage EP, Octave Piano, Rock, Classical, Octave Strings, multipads, tweaked Standard drumkit,....I generally tweak & edit all the styles to suit my needs and change a few part sounds, eq/fx as needed also. I only use maybe 40-50 styles which I can then cover almost anything. The rest I use custom edited Mp3 backing tracks to sing and play over, I'll also always use the same KORG STS or Yamaha OTS sounds in the same Variation slots on all my styles so that I never have to worry what sounds are there while playing, var1 Piano/EP,Guitar, var2 Sax/Trumpet/var3 Strings/B3, va4 Brass, all else if need I draw from User menu, I only use two linked Boss FS-5U pedals VH/Sus.....for the rest I'll just dj songs for dancing for the younger crowds which are also edited every one from my laptop to suit the venue, etc,etc,..this for my needs creates a super MIX on stage to do just about anything. Sometimes I read where players are using thousands of styles and sounds and I have to shake my head in amazement and wonder why,....this might work for you but for me I'll stick to what I have said above using My 7 piece band to me less is more..
Now how do you as a singer/player go about it? I would love to hear it and maybe absorb and learn a few things along the way.



Edited by Dnj (09/06/17 10:13 AM)

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#437063 - 09/06/17 09:38 AM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2445
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Donny
I agree. I use a limited amout of Styles and Sounds. Never really counted them but I try to stick with sounds I like. And Styles that promote dancing. Basic Piano, Exp. Sax for some solos, etc. Favorite Bass and Drum sounds for backing. As for Midi backing I edit those, usually play Piano along with them and change the other sounds to those I usually use with Styles. Simple is good and the Voice is the most important thing people listen too.
Seen a ton of guitar player / singers here and they go with one sound all night. Bands who are good here same thing. Basic sounds and good vocals and arrangements.
KISS
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#437066 - 09/06/17 10:02 AM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I pretty much want to sound like a small combo...drums, bass, guitar, piano, sax, mostly in that order. I also use Pedal Steel, Fiddle, Harmonica, Organ, Trumpet and Strings some, but almost always in a small group concept.
Mostly basic, generic styles are used, several each of slow and fast 4/4, 3/4, 6/8, 2/4, shuffles, and Rumba, Beguine, Bossanova. I do a lot of early rock n roll and country, which were often played by small bands with 3 to 6 players. When I do Standards or more Big Band songs, I usually still try to stay true to the small group concept as much as possible.
I do use a few "song" styles, but not many, and very seldom pull up a midi file of something that is difficult to arrange because of timing changes or very unique things that I find hard to play. Generally I learn to play them eventually and then discontinue using the midi file.
I certainly don't object to using and playing along with midi files or even MP3s, I just like to play as much live as possible. That's why I got into music in the first place, to PLAY it. The vast majority of my listeners have heard me many times so I like to maintain the overall sound but keep things as fresh as possible.
I miss playing with other musicians and wish it would have been easier to make a living doing such, but there are certainly many advantages of doing it alone. I get to keep all the money, for one thing. smile

Back to the question...I could get by with a dozen styles and a half dozen sounds if necessary, but night after night, week after week, year after year, you have to expand and change things or you would bore yourself to death, and most likely your audiences as well. As many know, I play a lot of guitar-sound leads and fills, and there are countless different guitar sounds if you consider acoustic, electric, and all the myriad of amp simulations.
Ever notice how old people tend to ramble on?
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DonM

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#437074 - 09/06/17 11:21 AM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Same background as you guys, and the same M.O. As Bill put it, KISS. Plus, we all develop our own style over the years. I mean style in the 'way' we play - licks we tend to use, how we structure chords, etc.

An old bass player of mine used to say he could tell it was me on keys without him even being in the room. I always liked that statement.

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#437085 - 09/06/17 02:06 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I guess I look at this differently, but when I was still working, which was just over a year ago, I used hundreds of styles, styles that were modified, tweaked and tuned until they sounded as close to the original song as I could possibly make it. To me, each song is unique, has it's own flair, that makes it instantly recognizable to the audience. When that audience hears that piano intro to Old Time Rock And Roll, the original song instantly is recalled in their minds. Many are up and on the dance floor before the entro ends.

I was primarily a singer, and still enjoy learning new songs on a weekly basis, even though I no longer perform on stage. The right hand licks that go along with those songs are also quite unique, particularly with the guitars, electric pianos, saxophones, organs, harmonicas, strings, etc... I love the way those right hand instruments enhance those songs independent of the vocals, yet at the same time, provide emphasis to both the style and the vocals.

Could I have performed using a dozen styles and a half dozen sounds? Of course, but after a few months I would have considered another way of making a living because both I, and my audiences, would have been bored to tears and begin throwing rotted fruit and vegetables at me.

Currently, I am struggling with a song by Glenn Campbell "The Last Time I Saw Her Face", which is a Gordon Lightfoot song that Campbell performed far better than Lighfoot. I have been working on this one for two weeks and getting close on it. The very first thing I did, though, was to select an appropriate style, one that was fairly close to the original song, then went about modifying that style, adding some creative right hand instruments, then began working on the vocals, which are quite difficult when playing live, which is the only way I play. I know Donny enjoys creating midi and MP3 backing tracks, then singing along with them, but that's not my style. I want to be in full control all the time, end the song when I want it to end, etc...

All the best from a retired, busted up, old man,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#437086 - 09/06/17 02:10 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I agree about the signature "licks", but I prefer to play them myself.
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DonM

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#437088 - 09/06/17 02:42 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Ditto! Unfortunately, there are times when my lack of playing skills prevent this, therefore I rely on the massaged styles to provide the intros.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#437098 - 09/06/17 05:07 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
The only one that requires that huge amount of sounds in my pa4x is the one that wants to sound as close to the orriginal as possible, with songspecific styles.. or midi files..

For the rest i think noboddy would require more then the 128 orriginal sounds of the GM set.. in the highest quallity... a few tweaks and layers for the right hand, and lets blow away...
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#437104 - 09/06/17 06:31 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: DonM]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By DonM
I agree about the signature "licks", but I prefer to play them myself.


Ditto Don I mostly play my own intros etc, to make it my own....

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#437110 - 09/06/17 08:53 PM Re: Singer/Player How Many Sounds Do You Really Need? [Re: Dnj]
J. Larry Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 521
Loc: University, MS 38677 USA
My approach is similar to what’s been said----use of basic styles and voices that fit the song. Most of my gigs, now, are less dancing and more dining and listening music. As stated before, I’m a guitarist that stumbled into arrangers a few years back. Hence, I split my gig time between the S970 with vocals, as well as Band In A Box, with vocals and guitar. These two approaches tend to keep things fresh for the most part. I decide ahead of time which instruments to use. It works well most of the time.

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