I like to have your comment about the difference between the KN6000/7000 keyboard sound without PA and the in a sound system (PA).

I found the sound a little bit to hard... with to much punch.... I thing Technics made the best for the internal sound system but in a power amp it's too high ???

How do you love the amplified sound in a powered system ?

I use an amplifier with two stereo speakers for live performance and I get mixed comments. My wife Georgiana says it sounds "too shrill and too loud". I tend to agree but really haven't found a good way to tone it down a bit. It seems that no combination of an equalizer (either the one in the KN7000 or an external one) takes the bite out of it. My listening audience seldom complains except when I get wound up and play too loud. Their comments are usually how realistic the instruments sound, especially the horns.
I would like to hear others ideas on this subject. I think that I would like to tone it down a little for certain gigs -- for instance when I play dinner music for the dinner theater. A smoother sound would probably be more suitable. By the way, I never got these reactions with my old KN2000 so I do use saved sounds from the KN2000 once in a while.
Walt

Walt: Quote - "Their comments are usually how realistic the instruments sound, especially the horns".

The reason you did not get those kind of comments on the old 2000 was because they were not as realistic as the 7000. The closer to the original sound, the closer you have to play that instrument the way it is played. The new samples have a much broader range of harmonics captured and because the new amplification system coupled with much better speakers are capable of reproducing these more realistic sounds. I still have my 1 and 2 thousand boards. They sound good but have a more muffled sound. I find the equalizer helps if you don't like the highs. Are you sure you tried using the equalizer and don't have it mixed up with the mixer. Another big factor is age. Many, many older people get very sensitive to high pitched sounds. This is the reason older people get irritated when young kids scream and cry. My youngest daughter is an audiologist and deals with these kind of problems every day. Over the holidays I played a restaurant that had a special day for the kids and parents. Santa Claus and the whole bit. Christmas music until it was running out of my ears. The mike was on, singing and kids singing, parents singing besides my canary. Everybody commenting on the richer sounds compared to the 65 which were pretty darn good. The only one who asked to tone it down was, you guessed it, Old Santa. In his seventies I would guess. I had to increase the sound a little two times by the request of the parents and kids.

With this in mind I have a solution to this dilemma. I don't mean a partial solution. I don't mean a compromise or any such thing. I mean a full blown solution. A, can't miss way, of attacking this problem. OK! OK! What do you think? The old saying goes - Three strikes and your out. I say - Three strikes and your in. And here it is, the perfect and only way to please everybody. An old crowd, a middle aged bunch or the fifty five to one hundred year old ARP carders. A seven thousand for the swingers. A five to six thousand for the middies and the old 2 for the fogies. Have all three KN’s, one for every venue. The perfect solution. Undoubtedly the reason Ruthie has stuck with me these fifty plus years is my ability to address every problem. To smile at every difficulty. To be at peace with myself. And that’s the way I look at things.

Grandpa Doug

jm,

How do I find the sound in my sound system? I find it great. I have two self powered systems. I set them up on two tripods. This stereo setup works and sounds great. I can adjust the low’s and high’s at the speakers and along with the equalizer on the KN can achieve a great sound. I hope you realize their exists different systems for different uses. There are bass amps and speakers. PA types. Guitar combinations. There are also systems made especially for keyboard type of reproduction. These are what you are after. However there is also a variation among the keyboard speaker brands. This is the way I approached it. I went to my local sound system dealer. I said, look, I am going to buy a sound system for my keyboard. I will listen to what you have to offer for my situation. I will take a system home for a week and try it out. I will then take another few home and do the same. I will then purchase the one that I like the best. You can either let me do this for nothing, I will rent them for a week or I will give you fifty bucks as earnest money towards a purchase. If when I try what I think will work for me and am not satisfied you can keep the fifty for your trouble or give me back what ever suits you. I also will give you any bank or personal references you desire. OK or no OK? He did and I did and that’s how I got my system. Just remember, your ears are not like my ears and your ears have not gone through what my ears have been subject to.

Sometimes Ruthie says she can’t understand the way I do things. I told her I don’t understand some of the things she does. She went and got six kids and I only got six keyboards.

Grandpa Doug

What a good keyboard player learns early or SHOULD LEARN is to know how to blend sounds. This takes a good ear and is something many on the forum have yet to learn. I only have to hear other's work to know this. I can't stress enough to listen to what you have recorded. What I hear from so many is one extreme or the other - Too loud playing of RIGHT 1, RIGHT 2 versus the volume settings in your accompaniment or the other way around - Too much volume on horns, not enough on strings, bass set too low or too loud. LISTEN TO YOURSELF! Surely you can hear the unbalanced sound. I have loaded people's music and have listened to settings of RIGHT 1 set at 127 and BASS set at 65, HORNS set at 120 - With settings like these, believe me, over a p.a., you are going to hear complaints from people.

Most likely, the problem isn't the keyboard or the p.a. Not knowing Walt's system, makes it harder to analyze. He may have brilliant speakers that pick up the highs and are weak on the low end or his p.a. amplifier isn't set right in the mix. I can almost bet that if you get your volumes set right in your instruments i.e., right hand and accompaniments, no one will complain about your sound other than your outright being a bad musician or they don't like your style of music. If you can follow the bouncing ball and keep the beat and when instrumentation is set correctly, all should be well.

Grandpa Doug - Your last paragraph - "Taint funny, McGee!" I'll bet you remember that.

NSR and Doug,
I agree with all that has been said and I was fully aware of all before this thread.
I think that somehow we have lost the original point of the thread: JM found that with external amplifier and speakers, the sound was not the same as directly from the keyboard, sounded harsh to him, and wanted to know if others had similar experiences.
I replied that I found a similar situation, Doug said that (among other things) that his was just fine, and perhaps others will eventually comment.
The amplifier and speakers that I use sound absolutely smooth on any commercially recorded program material, Big Band, Vocal, ETC, but somewhat harsh from the keyboard. It is not a matter of balance, -- and cutting the highs with the KN7000 equalizer or with an external equalizer is also not the total answer although it does help.
I'm sure that the answer will eventually surface.
In the meantime, any more comments from others?
Walt

Just want to add:

My pa system is a Fender Passport P-250.
125 W. channel - stereo.
My keyboard is a KN6000.

Walt,

Is the same for my system, If I play a CD I cant put the volume higher before my ears broke. If I try the KN6000 at the same volume I have to decrease because the sound is very sharp and crisper.

I try just to listen some MP3 demo from Yamaha Tyros and the sound was smoother ??

JM, Be careful about making a comparison when listening to MP3's. The MP3 files are compressed, some very much so, and the true fidelity is not there.
Does the KN6000 have an equalizer? If so, I might be able to help a little.
Walt

jm,

When you plug in a CD player into your system the CD player does not have as much drive into your amp as the 6000 does. In other words the 6000 has more power coming out of it than the CD player. Therefore if your system is set at the same volume level you will get more out of the KN. The way it works is the more you put in the more you get out. I am not talking about the built in speaker system of the keyboard but the output power of the out jacks on the back of the keyboard. The ones that you are using to feed your external amp. That is why you are experiencing this volume change. There are other factors that also enter in the equation. If you overdrive the external amp, that is, put too much power into it, you will cause other problems such as distortion or maybe some of what you are noticing. Fender amps also are made for guitars and match the output of guitars. That is why you must match the two. Balance the two pieces of equipment to one another. As NSR points out when everything is balanced and blended the result is great. Yes, as this holds true in the making of music so is also true in the balancing and blending of hardware. Only then will you obtain a pleasing result. So very important! Walt is right on the money when he speaks about MP3 files. Using them for any comparison will only result in you deceiving yourself and will lead you on the road to disappointment. In terminating my observations I will say again the three of us, I, me and myself, are pleased with our amp setup as well as the people we perform for. If you are not, something must be going amiss. Either the equipment does not like each other (is not a good match for each other). The equipment likes each other but is being used wrong. One part of the equipment stinks from the get go.

This is an interesting subject. I have read on other forums where the discussion of amps, speakers and equipment are frequently debated. The demise of these discussions too often is caused by loyalty to brand, ego or such. An open mind along with a desire to find the truth of the subject at hand is of prime importance. A willingness to experiment also figures into the mix to make any progress at all. That’s the way I see it and would hope many others would add to the comments already expressed on this subject.

Before I shut my mouth I would like to make a statement that no doubt will cause a stir on this forum. And that is: Could be there are people who do not like the sounds and rhythms of the Technics keyboards. And that might be the root of this whole discussion. If that is the case, let me say there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you do not care for it, you do not care for it. And that’s the way it is. I hate broccoli but Ruthie loves it. Jack Sprat could eat no fat but his wife could eat no lean so between them both they licked the platter clean. So fellows and gals lets hear some words of wisdom flow from your finger tips over to my house. This is a new year and a new year deserves some new thoughts which brings new life to this new year of thoughts even if you did not make any new years resolutions. Ruthie says: What ever you think dear.

Grandpa Doug

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Douglas Dean:
[B]jm,

When you plug in a CD player into your system the CD player does not have as much drive into your amp as the 6000 does. In other words the 6000 has more power coming out of it than the CD player.

Not necessarily the case, there are other factors, I would not say this without seeing a circuit diagram and technical spec. for both pieces of equipment. Broadly speaking, it depends where the output is taken from. I have two CD players, both Sony, and plugged into the same amp, again Sony, they have different sound levels. One plugged into my B&O System, into which I plug the 7000, sounds louder than the 7000!!! Walter.

Hay Walter,

Your completely right when you say: "Not necessarily the case, there are other factors". Sure sounded good however, and gave the impression I really knew what I was talking about. Yes, there are other factors. The scenario jm offered sort of led me to believe he might be driving his amp too hard. Thought my statement might be of some help to his problem and the understanding of it without clouding up the subject with too much detail. My own system starts to sound like it's caught a cold when I drive it too hard. That was my only thought in stating it the way I did when jm in his example used his CD and KN trials. Sorry if I butchered up the electronics theories using my own theory of explanation. Keep it simple stupid! Ruthie keeps telling me sometimes I'm simply stupid. After all these years I tend to believe her and that's how I came up with this way of doing things. Keep it simple stupid.

Anyway Walter how does your system work with your KN? Do you have any sound problems like we a discussing? Is there any difference in sound quality with or without added sound amplification? Am I the only one that likes my sound system? By the way, what is a B&O system? I like to hear about the equipment and the way it is being used. I have gotten many good tips by listening to how others do things. Saves a lot of wear and tear on my own brain and body when I listen to others. Hope you don’t mind all the questions.

Grandpa Doug

Grandpa Doug,


"Fender amps also are made for guitars and match the output of guitars. That is why you must match the two"

I know the difference between amp guitar and pa. My sound system is a 4 input mono and 2 stereo with 30 - 30K frequency.
A keyboard in a amp guitar have no bass and sound very bad.

"The scenario jm offered sort of led me to believe he might be driving his amp too hard"

May be is that, I think the difference between the CD and KN sound force me to put the sound higher. When you listen to a song in a CD at high volume you have a full complete range of sound. When you listen at KN at full volume, (since KN5000) you have a full rang also but i sound all separated sound. It's clear and you could ear all the sound separately... I dont not if I explain well what I want to tell. (I'm french and I dont find all the word to explain my self well).
In the past I had the KN2000 and two amp speakers (yamaha MS-60) and when I'll play at high volume it was not the same effect. Sure the instrument sound was not good as today but the overall (mixed sound) was great.

Today I fill the mixed instrument sound is not really realism, if you take any sound is terrific.... but togeter is different then before. (before the KN5000)

Hope you understand what I try to explain.

Friendly,
JM

Thanks Doug,
First, I’m a bit deaf; don’t hear anything above 10k htz. Courtesy of the R.A.F. (in the 50’s), and I only play (badly) at home. I find the sounds from the 7000 itself excellent, as others who hear it do. I wonder if some users don’t really grasp the settings of the equaliser, i.e. do the “protect” it from being disabled; I hear a difference when I adjust it. My B&O, Bang & Olufsen, music centre is about 15 years old, 50 watts per channel,( proper watts, both channels driven, full frequency, across the whole bandwidth)!!! I could say it is 100 watts, 200 watts 400 watts 800 watts, and all would be true, but that’s another story. I also own a pair of Philips MFB, (Motional Feed Back) speakers, about 12”x10”x8.” The amp, 30 good watts, is built in, they are about 20 years old, as good as new, when I got them I was told to throw them in the bucket!! Connected to the 7000, with a 10 band graphic equaliser, and using the 7000 speakers also, I am told the sound is superb. The best amp. system I have heard is Bose, don’t know the model, but was told the cost was, £1500, (about 2400 dollars), he used two keyboards and also sang and I was impressed. Early Hi-Fi, 1970’s, the rule was, best at either end, cartridge and speakers, and let the rest look after itself. Probably the best speaker ( mono days) I owned was a Wharfdale SFB 3, Sand Filled Baffle, 3 speakers.. The 3 speakers was a tax loophole, 2 properly matched would have done. But most sound systems were Public Address, and using 3 speakers exempt them from tax. I once hat a pair of Teleton’s with 5 speakers, rubbish, but a great conversion piece!! The B&O speakers have a peculiarity; the tweeters are wired out of phase, but it works. An acquired taste, but effective. I helped a friend set up some new equipment recently, JVC, the tweeters were about 10/12 inches high and shaped like vases, discretely blended in with her ornaments, the sub woofer was hidden behind a curtain and the sound was amazing, a friend who was with me has about 6000 dollars of equipment,( the JVC was 750)., he reckoned the sound was just about as good as his. The law of diminishing returns!!! Enough. Walter.

JM,

I can’t believe it! Amazing! Wonders never cease! I also had a KN2000. I also bought a pair of Yamaha MS 60S self powered monitor speakers. The reason, after trying some others, was they sounded the best to me for the power range I wanted. I made sure I tested all of the products hooked up to my keyboard. Not in the store hooked up to their stuff. To me they looked well built. They were easy for me to carry around. Can be used with floor stands or on tripods. The reason I even considered looking at or considering these was because many of the music stores in my area were using these on their grand pianos having that music disk contraption on them. I figured if they wanted to sell their 50G grand pianos they certainly would use amplification worthy of that high priced piano. So armed with that kind of thinking I went speaker hunting. And that’s the story of how I wound up with what I wound with. I know bad english and sentence structure but I’m getting old. Usually I’m pretty law abiding but once in a while I get a kick out of murdering the english language. What was I talking about? Oh yes, speakers. Anyway JM I still use them, they sounded good with all the boards I ever owned. The 2, 3, 5, 6, 65 and now the 7 thousand. One hundred and twenty watts plus the sixty in my KN all going in the same direction is all I have ever needed for the kind of jobs and music I play. The frequency response of 40 Hz to 20 kHz covers my KN range nicely and at 10 kg or 22 lbs each old grandpa’s eyes don’t bulge out when he carries them in and raises them up on the tripods. My Ruthie always comes along on most of my engagements. She caries in the wires, music and stuff. I haven’t figured out yet if she likes to hear me play or just to keep a check on me. In any event, she inspires me and I like it. Speakers! Oh ya speakers. Well that’s about all I can say about speakers.

Quote; In the past I had the KN2000 and two amp speakers (yamaha MS-60) and when I'll play at high volume it was not the same effect. Sure the instrument sound was not good as today but the overall (mixed sound) was great.

Today I fill the mixed instrument sound is not really realism, if you take any sound is terrific.... but together is different then before. (before the KN5000)

Hope you understand what I try to explain.

Yes JM I think I do. You are right. The way I would state what you are saying is: all sound samples and the mixture of them have more presence. Because more of the, shall I say frequencies and over tones or maybe you might say harmonics are captured with the new samples, You are hearing more and they stand out in the forefront so to speak. Also the new boards can now reproduce them. You might put it this way. The sound seems to be closer to you. The presence is increased because you are hearing more of what the real instrument sounds like. Lets say you are going to a dance of some kind where a big band is playing. You come into the front door and hang up your coat. The band is playing in the other room. Sounds good overall. But kind of like in a distance, so to speak. Cant quite make out any individual instrument but overall good sound. Now you open the door to go into the big room where the band is and all the people. As soon as you open the door the music seems clearer and you can hear people talking. More presence than before. As you walk to the front of the room and close to the band everything becomes sharper and crisper to your ears. You hear the brass section on the right, the reeds in the center, the percussion on the left the rhythm section left center and so on. No more talking, just up front music in stereo. Presence. Some would call it ‘in your face’ type of sound. Shear ecstasy when you are one of the players. I know! What a feeling! That’s what I like about my seven. Exhilarating joy! Back on subject. You will notice there are people sitting up front, some midway and then others prefer to sit in the back. Why? Ask them and you will hear: I don’t like to be too close, more mellow back hear. (Less presence?) Yes! The walls, carpeting, the tables, the people are all absorbing some of the subtle harmonics and such of the instruments and their blending. As you move closer the more presence you hear, the clearer the band and the instruments sound. Also the stereo effect becomes greater. This is what I believe is happening as we move ahead in sound reproduction and greater depth in sampling coupled with great strides in technology. Habits are hard to break. People get set in there ways. They tend to become comfortable with the past. That’s just how it is in this world. But sometimes things are not what they appear on the surface. What I’m getting at is this. Record a song on your keyboard. Play it and stand back 20 to 30 feet. What you hear will be different than you hear sitting at the board. Same as different speaker systems sound different and also the placement. If you place your speakers on the floor you will lose certain spectrums of your sound. If you place them on tripods the sound will be different. Therefore the final product depends on many factors, not just one or two. For that reason it becomes very hard to put your finger on the culprit of your dissatisfaction. Yes JM things change and so do we. Just look in the mirror.

Walter,

Man, sounds like you had a speaker fest going at times. What a relief! Somebody else likes their KN and speaker set up. A friend of mine is in the amp and speaker business. He designs, builds and does sound installations. We worked off and on for a little over a nine month period trying to put together a system that would sound the same as the keyboard. We finally arrived at a combination that pleased us both. This is what I now use in my home. About three years ago I added a sub woofer to the setup. That made all the difference in the world. I can’t hardly describe the difference. The best way I can describe it is to say the setup sounds like I paid many more thousands of dollars for my keyboard than I did. For the home situation today I think I would use only my 7000 and a good sub woofer. Now with the new aux. out on our KN’s I can plug it in directly and not use my mixer. Wish I was young again and could hustle that on to my jobs. But the system I use for that purpose which I described above does a great job. So every thing is cool. Out of phase? Ya, out of phase stuff can make a big difference at times. My sub woofer has a phase switch and makes a big difference in where it is placed in the room. Another one of those contributing factor angles. I think all of these late in life things are keeping my mind young. My body? Ruthie is doing all she can to keep me in good shape. Poor gal, she’s got her hands full trying to keep it up and running. Time for lunch, Ruthie just called so I’ll see you guys later.


Grandpa Doug

What a super explanation of presence, I used to tell customers, imagine sitting in the theatre, 30 rows back, and then move forward to the 3rd. row, that’s presence. This was language they understood, just the same as yours is understandable, great. Walter

Hi Gang,New to the forum, but very impressed and thankful.I own a 7000,about 2 months and currently playing thru a pair of Roland kc500s one word --awesome---But I must admitt when compairing the overall sound to my other boards(roland xp80,roland va7,vk7 and love this box even though I have quite a collection this is a keeper.Keep the forum hot you guys are great. JAXSAX

Welcome! Welcome and Welcome! JAXSAX Welcome! Number one post on this forum. Wow! Now there are three of us who like our keyboard and soundsystem combo. How about giving us guys some insight on your gear, especialy on the KC500's. I know it's hard but try to put into words the differance between the sound emanating from the keyboard speakers and your KC500's. Any differance in total quality? Any tonal differance? Can you add anything to the discussion at hand? Might as well get into the swing of things right at the start.

Grandpa Doug

An Easy Answer To Please All Of Your Audience Would Be To Use Your Headphones

just kidding

Larry Hawk

Thank you Doug,

Your'e explanation are excact, (even if some word that don't understand !) I had made a CD with my KN and if you listen at other position then sit in front of the keyboard it's very different. I never try it before.

Other reason is the sound of the keyboard itself (speaker) are so good then it's sound not better in a sound system vs KN2000...

If I have the money to trade for a KN7000 I was buying soon as he came out ... but...

I tink people like me how are not able to change try to find negative thing on the keyboard to have a reason to not trade. Me I say : the KN7000 is the same as KN6000 with SD card, video out and more sound.... but if I could trade now i will say this is the best keyboard in the world.

But with all the expense....
Someday I may have the KN10000 or ????

Thank's to you Doug for youre explaination and your good judgement !

JM (Jean-Marie)

Glad to be part of this group,but got to learn to type on this cozy laptop,keep losing paragraphs by hitting the pad with my palm.I am a long time collector of boards from a homemade PAIA modular to a Minimoog(connected to the line in on the 7000).When I get some time,got to take grandson to the skate park,Iwill list all my gear.I am still reeling over the 7000 and how I got it.My wife of 42 years hid a check in a christmas sliegh deco on our first day of vacation in October and said this was christmas,birthday and aniversary gift. I was calling the dealer from the Jersey shore,fishin gear laying on the sand,with in 5 minutes and it was waiting for me when I got back home. Needless to say I've created a permanent vacation in my studio.Incidently the check was from my wifes severance check after a layoff frome her 20 plus year job. No moo money but we got a 7000 ALLRIGHT!!!!!!!! I'll be in touch Jaxsax

Welcome Jaxsax to the Technic's Forum. We are pleased to have you join us.
There are people here from all over the world with about every Technics keyboard, piano and organ ever built.
This is one big (mostly) happy family where everyone helps everyone else with their needs, a fair amount of social interaction, plus a great place for doing research with our built in search engine.
We will be looking forward to your sharing your interests, gear, and developement with your latest keyboards.
Best to you and yours and thanks for joining us here. You are welcome. Post away


------------------
BEBOP
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=25
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://www.anycities.com/bebop/

Just picked up what appears to be a great aid in answering a lot of the sound and amplification questions this post has generated.It's called Live Sound Reinforcement by Scott Hunter Stark,purchased at B@N books $29.95.It covers all topics and contains the ever necessary eq spectrum list from 40hrtz to the top end and all types speaker placement and effects. As for me on the KC500 all knobs at 12 o'clock as a starting point and eq on rhe mixer side with alot of audiance feedback at the onset of the gig. I am thinking of adding 2 of the new Kc60s on the sub out side of the 7000. Tried 2 Fostex mini monitors with r1 and acc.on,results were astounding but needs some more power to keep up with the system wattage.The mini Moog on the line in sounds great too but I think it's overkill as the 7000 has more than enough tricks up it's sleeve to give that a run for the money.Well enough for a novice poster I have really gained a lot reading thru the posts an am very gratefull. Thanks Jaxsax

I just got back from church where I took my new 7000 for the first time.I always hook up to twin Peavey KB300 self powered speakers I have used for years. While the sound was great overall,I noticed that the Alto sax soloist for one did not sound as good as the KN7000 speakers. I used flat settings on the speakers. I know it could be eq or a hundred other factors,but, there is something to be said for the virtues of the kn7000 keyboard with out introducing other external factors as long as the venue you are playing in is not too large.

I think I just learned that bigger isn't always better eventhough I thought big speakers would give better "presence".

HI Bernie,
I use KB300's also and have for several years now. I like them a lot but find them a little basey (bassy) hmmmm, as in too much base but I can eq that out so not a real problem. I haven't noticed a problem with the sax.
biggest problem is tooooooooooo heavy and no wheels and only one handle.
Bebop

Hi Bebop
I,in all fairness,didn't have time to fiddle with the sound. I always keep my bass down too and put casters on. I just keep them at the church and get them or one when needed.I am going to try it both ways and report back.

Bernie

Bernie, Quote: “I think I just learned that bigger isn't always better even though I thought big speakers would give better "presence". Just bigger and better arm muscles, a backache, and a bigger and better hernia sooner. Of course that only holds true with short old guys like me. A completely different story when you got big tall muscular, well built guys like you all.

Good subject, very, very good subject! Thanks JM for starting this thread and thanks Walt for reinforcing the phenomena you were experiencing pertinent to the same sound variation in amplification and speakers. In fact thanks for all the input by all you guys. A real hard one to put your finger on. Illusive to say the least. Bigger speakers move more air thus can fill a greater space with sound. However bigger comes with other biggers hanging on. Bigger moving problems, bigger balance problems and bigger and bigger things of the nature we just discussed. Bernie, a lot of guys have thought like you, even me at one time. Bigger speakers, more presence. Our KN’s are getting more and more presence model by model. Each new offering brings new challenges. We now have a keyboard with the presence that others would die for. Clarity, true to life sounds, power, fantastic speakers, a great low end sound reinforcement, a no moving parts mass storage device with no price increase over the last model, that's amazing. When you couple that with the completely new design and styling of the board and then throw in a stand alone organ rhythm style section with the new rotor, tab, pipe and theater organ voice samples you got your hands full.

I have a few remarks about the word presence. I have for one just realized everybody can hear it, it effects their senses, stir their emotions but have a hard time explaining what they are experiencing. Can’t seem to find the right words to express what's happening. Thinking about that, presence is more of an audio type word. Musicians hear it and experience it but that is about as far as it goes. Live bands are the source, they have it, they make it and don’t even give it much thought. Us guys playing keyboards know we would like reality and have tried to do that with speaker systems, equalizer and mixer schemes and so forth.
Now we have a keyboard that comes pretty close to live. The result being some of us sit back and scratch our heads. What's going on? My amp. system is not doing what it did before. True! Now all we have to do is amplify what we got. No longer try to add what was lacking to begin with. No longer have to help out the source. I first realized this on my first job with my new KN. I got everything set up. I slid in a floppy that I had recorded using a variety of combinations I use through out the performance. This I call my test setup disk. I play it and walk throughout the room. Holly mackerel! Room? Somebody mess with my settings? What? Went back to the KN, checked the equalizer, flat, that’s OK. I swung the left speaker around. Two plus marks on the bass and three plus on treble. OK! The right speaker the same. OK! Let me recheck. Out I went. Same thing. Now what, I asked myself. I wonder, I just wonder. Went back to the board. Set both speakers flat, no boost. Sat down at the board. A little better but not like it used to be. Rats!! Now what? Well let’s see what the crowd will be stuck with so I went out and walked around. My frown slowly melted into a big grin. I’ll be! Ya! If they don’t like that they got two holes in their head other than their ears and their snorter. Even got another job that night, a condo complex dinner dance thing. At seventy six with a nice bunch of pure white wavy hair, a fairly sound mind, a body with a few parts missing inside and a pretty wife things are good. When the time comes I wonder how I will be able to handle all this with my walker. Don’t fret! I will try. Even if I have to boost up my presence with a little Johnny Walker! Thanks for letting me add one more experience to this subject.

Grandpa Doug

BEBOP, that seven wonders of the world story does not belong on private E-Mail. That story belongs right here on this forum for everybody to read. That kind of stuff is right up my alley. If more minds could asbsorb that kind of thinking what a change in attitudes would result. Even would give us a new depth to our playing and the way we do and aproach things. Great stuff!

Grandpa Doug

This is a very intersting discussion of what goes into making music that people will enjoy.

First of all there is a science to creating sounds - and the basic start is the room you are in. Dont use your home living room as a guide. That's almost useless.

You can assume that after making several generations of musical keyboards Technics kows something about what a musical keyboard should sound like. Al this stuff about testing your keyboard whatever it is in an A B Test against another manufacturers model is just silly - unless its done in the place where you actually perform.

Second - while built in speakers are fine - they are really only monitors designed to sound nice to the player and perhaps a small group in the immediate area - of a home - or a small resturant. It's not for a large theater type setting.

In the large venue - there is equipment specifically designed for keyboard reproduction, Peavey - Roland - and other companies make them.

The most rewarding sound I've ever produced has been from a small ( 60w) KB100 keyboard mono amplifier - speaker combination - sitting on a chair! Not even a second speaker! That was using a 10 year old Kn2000.

So for the best sound - dont just buy anything recommended by a salesman - listen to it in a large auditorium - with people in it - all speakers are not the same - all amplifiers are not the same - and the heart of producing quality is to start with basics - simple arrangements. - Keep it simple.

As arrangements get more complicated - thats where the problems start. I prefer the sounds of a clean trio any day to the sounds of a mushy 10 piece so called orchestra.

Jer