I like to have your comment about the difference between the KN6000/7000 keyboard sound without PA and the in a sound system (PA).

I found the sound a little bit to hard... with to much punch.... I thing Technics made the best for the internal sound system but in a power amp it's too high ???

How do you love the amplified sound in a powered system ?

I use an amplifier with two stereo speakers for live performance and I get mixed comments. My wife Georgiana says it sounds "too shrill and too loud". I tend to agree but really haven't found a good way to tone it down a bit. It seems that no combination of an equalizer (either the one in the KN7000 or an external one) takes the bite out of it. My listening audience seldom complains except when I get wound up and play too loud. Their comments are usually how realistic the instruments sound, especially the horns.
I would like to hear others ideas on this subject. I think that I would like to tone it down a little for certain gigs -- for instance when I play dinner music for the dinner theater. A smoother sound would probably be more suitable. By the way, I never got these reactions with my old KN2000 so I do use saved sounds from the KN2000 once in a while.
Walt

Walt: Quote - "Their comments are usually how realistic the instruments sound, especially the horns".

The reason you did not get those kind of comments on the old 2000 was because they were not as realistic as the 7000. The closer to the original sound, the closer you have to play that instrument the way it is played. The new samples have a much broader range of harmonics captured and because the new amplification system coupled with much better speakers are capable of reproducing these more realistic sounds. I still have my 1 and 2 thousand boards. They sound good but have a more muffled sound. I find the equalizer helps if you don't like the highs. Are you sure you tried using the equalizer and don't have it mixed up with the mixer. Another big factor is age. Many, many older people get very sensitive to high pitched sounds. This is the reason older people get irritated when young kids scream and cry. My youngest daughter is an audiologist and deals with these kind of problems every day. Over the holidays I played a restaurant that had a special day for the kids and parents. Santa Claus and the whole bit. Christmas music until it was running out of my ears. The mike was on, singing and kids singing, parents singing besides my canary. Everybody commenting on the richer sounds compared to the 65 which were pretty darn good. The only one who asked to tone it down was, you guessed it, Old Santa. In his seventies I would guess. I had to increase the sound a little two times by the request of the parents and kids.

With this in mind I have a solution to this dilemma. I don't mean a partial solution. I don't mean a compromise or any such thing. I mean a full blown solution. A, can't miss way, of attacking this problem. OK! OK! What do you think? The old saying goes - Three strikes and your out. I say - Three strikes and your in. And here it is, the perfect and only way to please everybody. An old crowd, a middle aged bunch or the fifty five to one hundred year old ARP carders. A seven thousand for the swingers. A five to six thousand for the middies and the old 2 for the fogies. Have all three KN’s, one for every venue. The perfect solution. Undoubtedly the reason Ruthie has stuck with me these fifty plus years is my ability to address every problem. To smile at every difficulty. To be at peace with myself. And that’s the way I look at things.

Grandpa Doug

jm,

How do I find the sound in my sound system? I find it great. I have two self powered systems. I set them up on two tripods. This stereo setup works and sounds great. I can adjust the low’s and high’s at the speakers and along with the equalizer on the KN can achieve a great sound. I hope you realize their exists different systems for different uses. There are bass amps and speakers. PA types. Guitar combinations. There are also systems made especially for keyboard type of reproduction. These are what you are after. However there is also a variation among the keyboard speaker brands. This is the way I approached it. I went to my local sound system dealer. I said, look, I am going to buy a sound system for my keyboard. I will listen to what you have to offer for my situation. I will take a system home for a week and try it out. I will then take another few home and do the same. I will then purchase the one that I like the best. You can either let me do this for nothing, I will rent them for a week or I will give you fifty bucks as earnest money towards a purchase. If when I try what I think will work for me and am not satisfied you can keep the fifty for your trouble or give me back what ever suits you. I also will give you any bank or personal references you desire. OK or no OK? He did and I did and that’s how I got my system. Just remember, your ears are not like my ears and your ears have not gone through what my ears have been subject to.

Sometimes Ruthie says she can’t understand the way I do things. I told her I don’t understand some of the things she does. She went and got six kids and I only got six keyboards.

Grandpa Doug

What a good keyboard player learns early or SHOULD LEARN is to know how to blend sounds. This takes a good ear and is something many on the forum have yet to learn. I only have to hear other's work to know this. I can't stress enough to listen to what you have recorded. What I hear from so many is one extreme or the other - Too loud playing of RIGHT 1, RIGHT 2 versus the volume settings in your accompaniment or the other way around - Too much volume on horns, not enough on strings, bass set too low or too loud. LISTEN TO YOURSELF! Surely you can hear the unbalanced sound. I have loaded people's music and have listened to settings of RIGHT 1 set at 127 and BASS set at 65, HORNS set at 120 - With settings like these, believe me, over a p.a., you are going to hear complaints from people.

Most likely, the problem isn't the keyboard or the p.a. Not knowing Walt's system, makes it harder to analyze. He may have brilliant speakers that pick up the highs and are weak on the low end or his p.a. amplifier isn't set right in the mix. I can almost bet that if you get your volumes set right in your instruments i.e., right hand and accompaniments, no one will complain about your sound other than your outright being a bad musician or they don't like your style of music. If you can follow the bouncing ball and keep the beat and when instrumentation is set correctly, all should be well.

Grandpa Doug - Your last paragraph - "Taint funny, McGee!" I'll bet you remember that.

NSR and Doug,
I agree with all that has been said and I was fully aware of all before this thread.
I think that somehow we have lost the original point of the thread: JM found that with external amplifier and speakers, the sound was not the same as directly from the keyboard, sounded harsh to him, and wanted to know if others had similar experiences.
I replied that I found a similar situation, Doug said that (among other things) that his was just fine, and perhaps others will eventually comment.
The amplifier and speakers that I use sound absolutely smooth on any commercially recorded program material, Big Band, Vocal, ETC, but somewhat harsh from the keyboard. It is not a matter of balance, -- and cutting the highs with the KN7000 equalizer or with an external equalizer is also not the total answer although it does help.
I'm sure that the answer will eventually surface.
In the meantime, any more comments from others?
Walt

Just want to add:

My pa system is a Fender Passport P-250.
125 W. channel - stereo.
My keyboard is a KN6000.

Walt,

Is the same for my system, If I play a CD I cant put the volume higher before my ears broke. If I try the KN6000 at the same volume I have to decrease because the sound is very sharp and crisper.

I try just to listen some MP3 demo from Yamaha Tyros and the sound was smoother ??

JM, Be careful about making a comparison when listening to MP3's. The MP3 files are compressed, some very much so, and the true fidelity is not there.
Does the KN6000 have an equalizer? If so, I might be able to help a little.
Walt

jm,

When you plug in a CD player into your system the CD player does not have as much drive into your amp as the 6000 does. In other words the 6000 has more power coming out of it than the CD player. Therefore if your system is set at the same volume level you will get more out of the KN. The way it works is the more you put in the more you get out. I am not talking about the built in speaker system of the keyboard but the output power of the out jacks on the back of the keyboard. The ones that you are using to feed your external amp. That is why you are experiencing this volume change. There are other factors that also enter in the equation. If you overdrive the external amp, that is, put too much power into it, you will cause other problems such as distortion or maybe some of what you are noticing. Fender amps also are made for guitars and match the output of guitars. That is why you must match the two. Balance the two pieces of equipment to one another. As NSR points out when everything is balanced and blended the result is great. Yes, as this holds true in the making of music so is also true in the balancing and blending of hardware. Only then will you obtain a pleasing result. So very important! Walt is right on the money when he speaks about MP3 files. Using them for any comparison will only result in you deceiving yourself and will lead you on the road to disappointment. In terminating my observations I will say again the three of us, I, me and myself, are pleased with our amp setup as well as the people we perform for. If you are not, something must be going amiss. Either the equipment does not like each other (is not a good match for each other). The equipment likes each other but is being used wrong. One part of the equipment stinks from the get go.

This is an interesting subject. I have read on other forums where the discussion of amps, speakers and equipment are frequently debated. The demise of these discussions too often is caused by loyalty to brand, ego or such. An open mind along with a desire to find the truth of the subject at hand is of prime importance. A willingness to experiment also figures into the mix to make any progress at all. That’s the way I see it and would hope many others would add to the comments already expressed on this subject.

Before I shut my mouth I would like to make a statement that no doubt will cause a stir on this forum. And that is: Could be there are people who do not like the sounds and rhythms of the Technics keyboards. And that might be the root of this whole discussion. If that is the case, let me say there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you do not care for it, you do not care for it. And that’s the way it is. I hate broccoli but Ruthie loves it. Jack Sprat could eat no fat but his wife could eat no lean so between them both they licked the platter clean. So fellows and gals lets hear some words of wisdom flow from your finger tips over to my house. This is a new year and a new year deserves some new thoughts which brings new life to this new year of thoughts even if you did not make any new years resolutions. Ruthie says: What ever you think dear.

Grandpa Doug