Warning RANT : Lots of coffee and phone calls this AM

I've gotten a few calls from senior groups here for Holiday ( They're still not over the Merry Christmas / Hanukan battle yet )
Do you have this date open ? "Yes'
What do you play ? " Anything you want but I know what works from experience"
Are you loud ? " No"
Do yuou sing ? 'Yes'
Do you take lots of breaks ? 'No"
Do you do line dances ? "Yes"
Do you dance or teach the steps ? 'Sometimes"
Do you have lights ? "Yes'
Do you have insurance ? "Yes"
Here's the only question that matters after all this BS.
What do you charge ? " OK my wheels start turning trying to guage a fair price.
I give them what I think is a fair price and add I can work on it a little if that matters. "
OK, I have to talk to the committe ( they all use this line and I hate it ) and we'll get back to you.
Two weeks goes by, I swallow my pride and call saying I'd like to firm up the date.
Oh I'm sorry but we got someone less expensive.
Why the H*** didn't you just say we only have x amount of dollars in the first place and I would of said yes or no ? And how about the courtesy of a call back ?
This is not one incident but the same sceniero a number of times. These people are not charity cases. They live in upscale communities.

And for Gary, the NHs here pay $75 -- no thanks. Yet charge 4K a month to live there.

I told you all it was a rant. Just wanted to share with someone who understands the business. Thanks for your patience.

BILL
We must be talking to the same people who read the how not to hire a band manual. It happens all the time. Next time it happens to me I'm going to ask, Well, how much did you pay. I'm always tempted.
MEL

Very familiar. If its not a client I have previously played for or a type of (social) club I have basic prices for, I ask what date they are looking for and the budget they are working within in the same sentence. Then I can let them down by saying I'm booked rather than the truth, that what they are offering is not going to get most live musicians out the door.
The non callback/response thing is irritating. I would rather get 20 negative answers from incoming requests or promos I send out than no reply. Especially when it can be done via email that takes away possible awkwardness. I can remember one client that does a big annual event I solicited them for, who responded they were booked but would consider my band for next year. They actually did so and contacted me..but I was booked this time. But their follow up is the exception not the rule.

NURSING HOME ENTERTAINMENT

Good one donny. didn't look at the YT vids yet but I really don't care what others do. I can do a god jab and have in the past but not for crumbs.
My wife says why bother anymore, its not worth the stress. I'm beginning to think she is right.

Bill listen to your wife sometimes enough is enough,...when you have to battle against FREE now matter how good people think they are it really doesn't matter anymore, AD's have a certain budget to stretch out thru the year and have to do what is necessary to make it last....a saving grace is hopefully when your out there playing for peanuts someone visiting may see you ask for a card for a future Private event where you can cash in at your regular rates and something may come of it. Think of these cheap NH gigs as a practice session to try out material. there is much more avenues to take as a musician if you have the passion and talent. The LIVE music world is a very different place then when we grew up...good luck buddy.

After watching my father deteriorate over several months and pass a couple years ago, I can't go back to a place like that even for full rate. And he was in a better one as they go. I can't pretend not to see the discarded souls there..

I feel the same and saw the same thing with my mother-in-law (at a rate of @ $4800.00/mo). I understand the need for elder care but find it thoroughly depressing. It's not that she was treated badly (she wasn't), it's just the "discarded souls" atmosphere that Sparky described above. It's like a preview of what life is going to be for YOU in just a short time...no future, no hope, nothing to look foward to, no family or even old life-long friends around to talk to; just bland meals and a medicine tray. It's the closest thing I can think of to being on death row. Just thinking about it makes me hope I go to sleep in my own bed one night and just not wake up.

I applaud those who try to bring some joy to this population through music and entertainment and maybe alleviate some of the pain of this sad existence, but I could never personally do it, even on an occasional basis, much less every day. I would rather be in combat; at least you have the camaraderie of your buddies and the hope that you MAY come out of it alive.

FWIW, I don't feel quite as bad about retirement communities, especially the 'active adult' ones, as they are probably a good and practical transition to 'the next phase'. But jeez, this is such a depressing topic (not the OP), for me anyway.

chas

Bill, when I first began performing the NH circuit, the pay was the same - $75 max! After about a year, I began jacking up the price, the first jump was to $100 per hour, and none of my regular clients balked about the increase.

After about 5 years at $100 an hour, when gas prices shot through the roof, I informed my clients that I had to increase to $125 an hour and again, no one balked at the increase. Though gas prices eventually fell a bit, I kept my rate at the same price, and I charged everyone, private parties, nite clubs, restaurants, etc... the same fee, which is important. No one could say they were charged more or less than the $125 per hour fee, thus no conflicts.

Now, the nite clubs all said "absolutely not!" to which I said, that's my price - take it or leave it! The top nite clubs and restaurants in the Baltimore Metropolitan area pay $125 to $150 for a 4 hour job. This is the same rate they paid 50 years ago when I was relatively young and playing a 12-string guitar and performing lots of country songs while sitting on a bar stool and singing through a SM58 and a pawn shop amp I bought for about $50. I would much rather be performing at $75 an hour at a retirement community, assisted living center or nursing home, to an appreciative audience that enjoyed every minute of my performance, then a bunch of half drunk patrons at a nite club or restaurant that could care less if there was musical entertainment or a jukebox playing loud rock music. Even at $75 an hour the rate is far better, the hours are far better and the audiences are usually very appreciative.

Wanna make some big bucks, set up a deal like Donny Pesce had in NJ, a Thursday Night Dance Club at one of the halls of the local VFW or American Legion. Charge a nominal fee, say $7 bucks per person, provide soft drinks, ice, pretzels and chips at each table, play good dance music for three hours, and if you draw 150 people every Thursday, you'll rake in just over a $1,000 bucks a night before expenses.

Now, most of those halls are never rented on Thursday nights, therefore you have some bargaining room to get the hall rental price down to something reasonable, especially when you consider that you will be renting it 52 weeks a year. You can probably get that hall for a fraction of the normal asking price, probably under $200 a night.

The snacks can be purchased at Costco or BJ's Warehouse Club, which will save you a bundle. If they want something stronger, most VFWs and American Legions have their own bars, which will be more than happy to sell your patrons beer or something stronger. In fact, this will improve their bottom line, maybe to the point where they would be willing to negotiate a better deal with the hall rent.

Then, when it comes to NYE, you can really rake it in, making a deal with the hall rental folks where they provide the booze and food, you can charge premium prices and more than double your nightly take.

The secret to making this successful is advertising in the right places. It's a matter of getting the word out by printing and hanging attractive fliers and hanging them anyplace you can. Also, you can utilize things such as Craigs List, Facebook, and a host of other Internet sources that cost you nothing other than a bit of time putting something attractive together and posting it in the right places.

There are a huge number of over 55 communities in your part of the world, and there are a lot of people living there that would love to listen to you perform, dance, meet new people, and more. Donny had several of his people at his dance party that ended up getting married, meeting their spouses at his Thursday Night Dance Party. He also provided a birthday cake for those having birthdays on the same night as the dance party. Birthday cakes are cheap at BJ's! But, this gesture sure goes a long way in retaining the audiences week after week.

I'm sure Donny and others can provide more insight on this than I can, but I clearly recall seeing more than 250 people at Donny's Thursday Night Dance Party, whirling around the floor and enjoying themselves while Donny played his keyboard and sang to them.

Who really needs the nite club circuit, anyway?

Gary

Hi Bill.......you reminded me why I don't move from this cesspool. Good money and plenty of places to play. If you're good you easily command $175-$200. Donny is right about AD's on budgets and stretching their money out but they also make it a point to set good money aside to engage 1-2 top notch acts during the month to balance out the "deplorables (?)"

Anyhow, I think I said this before. The only real answer to today's messy music scenario is to "go where no man has ever gone before" and have the playing field to yourself. Take your keyboard or a keyboard and go on the lecture scene and talk about arranger and synthesizer music and what these keyboards can do. We all know that the general public is fascinated by this new technology. You can do colleges, high schools, libraries, retirement homes, etc. Alternatively, you can do what Michael Feinstein....studies songs and composers and performers and talks about them and plays the appropriate music.

As I recall, you retired as a schoolteacher. So you're used to talking in front of a group. Just put some material together and go for it.

I'm seriously considering doing that myself. There's plenty of work at the nursing homes here for good bucks but I'm really tired of the struggle....sending material out, Q&A telephone conversations, traffic, moody and inexperienced AD's, amateur musician competitors. Going on the lecture circuit is becoming more and more attractive for me.

I got the idea back around 1980. I went to a music demo in the store. When ARP was around, he was demo-ing the whole line. He did an incredible job of orchestrating his songs on those wonderful ARP keyboards. But when he got to the (ARP) sequencer, he did a sequence right on the spot and then played the keyboards around it, he brought the house down. It sounded like the London Philharmonic with him playing keyboards with both hands on top of it. I always think of that as an alternative. You're a good pianist....it's something you might want to consider.

Anyhow, if you're getting frustrated down there going up against the wolf pack consider some other kind of "alternative thinking" that sets you apart.

P.S. I don't think your wife is far off the mark...."why bother anymore, its not worth the stress." Go fishing instead with Don.

Or.....maybe the other end of the spectrum is the way to go? This is one of the (upper class) retirement communities (Brandywine) in my area for the elite. The place is bigger than DisneyWorld. Which means "big budgets."

Hi . . I also do something like what some are mentioning here ... I have played at private events as well as "retirement communities" and such for years ... I notice at one place that they had a thing they called "Enrichment Seminars", which were mostly lecturers coming in. I proposed that I could do an "Enrichment Seminar" for them (they already knew me and my music), on a topic related to music, with music demos throughout. It was a "hit", and I have since developed a series of topics, and do these "enrichment talks/demos" at several places now. It's a nice change from the more standard "mini-concert-style", or dances, that I had usually done.

Jim

My story:
1-I am 42 years old and I just sold my Music store/School.
2-I have a wife and four children
3-I want to continue playing with my band.
4-The percentage of musicians who made enough money to support a family in a decent manner was few.
5-I became a guitar teacher who gave lessons in the student’s homes. And played weekends with my band.
6-Some latter I became a Piano Tuner; my Dad’s trade. And played weekends in with my band.
7-I made excellent a good deal of money with my band – enough to stop tuning pianos; I continued to tune pianos.

My Wisdom: (My opinion)
1-Always have another source of making money other than music; this gives freedom to select when and what you will do with your music.
2-Your love for music should not be tainted with making dollars. If it is, you will find your love for music is being challenge.
3-Those who successfully planned for their latter years are free from the mixing of dollars with love of music.
4-If dollars are needed you will have to deal with what is being posted here. The old saying. “It is what it is” --- please don’t allow dollars to take away your love music; try not to mix talent and love for music with dollars.

Playing free music:
I did not charge the N.H. for the first few jobs. After that we talked about money. Now that I am in my eighties I will play, if I am still able, without being paid. I have been going to the gym for he last six months trying to get my body strong enough to move my equipment. I am taking some medications to prevent my voice from getting foggy. I am trying hard – and it has nothing to do with dollars. It is because I love playing for people.

Thanks for reading my post – I needed to write it, John C,

Jim great idea.....I have also done many Music Enchantment type shows at public libraries music appreciation heritage seminars years ago which focused on different parts of performance which goes over very well and breaks up the normal entertainment style gig & everyone learns something about music. There are many ways if your talented enough to share the magic for sure.

Gary
Excellent and informative info from a business prespective. I played a ton of those dances for other people at halls they had rented. I thought about doing it here but a simple problem. There are no halls to rent reasonably. There are no VFW's or Elks, or Moose Lodges here. All the suitable rooms are in the private communities or resort hotels and they want a lot of money to rent.
I'm also not thrilled about doing th eNH circut but may try a few more of the assisted living type places.
I'm just getting tired of the chase the next gig syndrome. Love to have a steady gig and sit in the corner of a nice restaurant and just play piano and sing. Still trying to find one.

John C
I know the feeling of having to write something which is the reason for my original post. I was just ready to scream with frustration.
I too was doing the band thing years ago and making decent money but decided I didn't want to depend on that type of lifestyle for my living. For me it was one of the wise choices I made and now have a decent retirement with no headaches. Teaching wasn't easy but the kids made up for the admin. BS. Besides who wold I rather deal with , a micro manageing Principal ( just my last one which helped me decide to retire early ) or an ego driven unreliable singer , loud guitarist, or drunk drummer. LOL !
However after all these years in the busines I feel I deserve to be paid for my music work. I still do freebies for certain Charity events. To me its a matter of respect.

If you want to play for free, go to Veteran's homes, hospitals, fundraisers. Nursing homes for the most part are owned by multi-million dollar corporations and actually have good budgets but as long as they can get people to play for free, they will.
By playing for free, you take an opportunity for someone like Gary or others to earn their livings.
There are lots of really good musicians playing for free around here. One NH called me last year and offered me $30. to come play. They said that was more than they usually paid. I respectfully declined.

[quote=Mark79100]Hi Bill.......you reminded me why I don't move from this cesspool. Good money and plenty of places to play. If you're good you easily command $175-$200. Donny is right about AD's on budgets and stretching their money out but they also make it a point to set good money aside to engage 1-2 top notch acts during the month to balance out the "deplorables (?)"

Anyhow, I think I said this before. The only real answer to today's messy music scenario is to "go where no man has ever gone before" and have the playing field to yourself. Take your keyboard or a keyboard and go on the lecture scene and talk about arranger and synthesizer music and what these keyboards can do. We all know that the general public is fascinated by this new technology. You can do colleges, high schools, libraries, retirement homes, etc. Alternatively, you can do what Michael Feinstein....studies songs and composers and performers and talks about them and plays the appropriate music.

As I recall, you retired as a schoolteacher. So you're used to talking in front of a group. Just put some material together and go for it.

I'm seriously considering doing that myself. There's plenty of work at the nursing homes here for good bucks but I'm really tired of the struggle....sending material out, Q&A telephone conversations, traffic, moody and inexperienced AD's, amateur musician competitors. Going on the lecture circuit is becoming more and more attractive for me.

I got the idea back around 1980. I went to a music demo in the store. When ARP was around, he was demo-ing the whole line. He did an incredible job of orchestrating his songs on those wonderful ARP keyboards. But when he got to the (ARP) sequencer, he did a sequence right on the spot and then played the keyboards around it, he brought the house down. It sounded like the London Philharmonic with him playing keyboards with both hands on top of it. I always think of that as an alternative. You're a good pianist....it's something you might want to consider.

Anyhow, if you're getting frustrated down there going up against the wolf pack consider some other kind of "alternative thinking" that sets you apart.

P.S. I don't think your wife is far off the mark...."why bother anymore, its not worth the stress." Go fishing instead with Don.

Mark

Thanks for the insightful and thoughtful ideas. I may consider doing something like Seminars.
There is big money here in many places not just NY and NJ. I've touched on a few but its hard to break into the circle. Just did the 4th for a good payday, have played for the Rotary for a fair amount, and have a big Charity banquet coming up for another good payday. ITs my fault for overestimating what these private party peole want to pay. I though I was being very fair but maybe not fair enough in their eyes.
One young jazz pianist who moved here from NY is well known and does many big money events. Has a regular Jazz thru History gig at the only jazz club here. Also plays with the top band here and another Reggae Beach band. Very hard to bump him aside. AND he doesn't sing, go figure.

Don
Good post I agree 100%
Thanks

Ahh ... The 'dream' gig for many of us ... I'm waiting for a friend of mine to retire from the gig he has had for about 15 years, then maybe I can take it over ... problem is I'm about 15 years older than he is

You can come and have mine, after I die that is. And that could be any day!

Not for me. I like to keep moving, I'd go nuts having to go to the same place every day - might as well have a factory or office job. Well, not quite, but you get my drift.

Old road warriors like me (albeit with much reduced distance these days) die hard, I guess.

Hi Jim.......could you tell me more about these "Enrichment Seminars?" Maybe an example of one that you do?

Thanks

I'm very blessed to have that dream scenario right now. I have a 4 night job (Thurs-Sun) at a restaurant that features music 7 nights each week. House PA (That I designed, and installed), 1/10th of a mile from my home. Summers, I add Monday & Tuesday at the NJ shore for a six night schedule with only 2 setups. Hasn't been like this since the 80s. Man, was it easy to find work back then. I'm not foolish enough to think this will last forever, but it "just may" last until I slow down a bit. I never plan on retiring ... I'l just work an easier schedule when I get frail, like the rest of you old codgers. (no names)
This may sound like bragging to some, but I'm just counting my blessings. 2 years ago, I was working all one nighters, 300 times a year. It's nice to take my foot off the accelerator for a bit.

Hope you keep on playing for a long long time, Thats why I keep doing it, keeps you active and engaged.

Dave
You are blessed and very lucky. Opprotunities like that are rare for guys in our age bracket.
I wouldn’t want to work that much anymore and IMHO doing 6 nights is work. I never was a full time player but one Summer was doing 6 nights with a band . When the owner cut us back to 5 we celebrated in the parking lot.
Keep doing it while you can and still have the enthusiasum to keep it fresh.
Wish we could see you at the Crab Trap again.

Yup ... 6 nights is a lot, but the old saying about making hay while the sun shines kinda applies here. It's very much a job, but I don't consider the performances as work. The time I put in at home, in study, and rehearsal is what I call work. I still live for the stage.

UD ... Are you able to leave your gear set up in these places, or what do you set up/break down each night?

I don't mind the practice, learning new songs, setting the styles on the kb, etc. ... The 'work' for me is the setting up and breaking down whether it takes 10 minutes or 25 or longer depending on how much gear I have ...

Tony, I drive to the shore, and set up on Monday afternoon, play that night, and leave it overnight. Play Tuesday, tear down Tuesday night - drive home.
Off Wednesday
Thursday morning, I set up and leave it there for all four nights - tear down Sunday night. Rinse, Repeat.

I'm gonna get spoiled!

Since some have asked - this is the text that I send out to some A.D.'s about "enrichment seminars" (music-oriented talk/demo): (from Jim Laing's Program Ideas document):

"How Music is Created & Recorded: a talk/demo where I use fun, audience-friendly ways to show how music is created, performed and recorded – includes lots of musical demos (that I play on my modern keyboard instrument); includes some audience participation!

Music Appreciation: a talk/demo where I talk about a variety of styles and kinds of music, with lots of musical examples that I play “live”. I talk about the styles, what makes them unique, what instruments are used in various musical genres, etc. I take requests as well!

Musical Instruments: a talk/demo where I talk about and demo a wide variety of musical instruments (using my modern electronic keyboard) from orchestral, to jazz instruments, to “world” instruments and more. Lots of music is played to demo the various sounds, as I talk about how instruments work, the many kinds of instruments, and how they are combined and used in a wide variety of styles of music.

Hidden Gems: There are many songs, especially from the 1940s and earlier, that have “lost” parts – parts that are not heard as often anymore. These songs have parts that have been somewhat “lost” over the years. Example: “Take Me Out To The Ball Game” has a whole verse that comes before the part that everyone knows! For this theme, I have researched the “hidden” (less known) parts of many well-known songs. I play the part people don’t know as well, sometime having them try to guess which song it goes to! I demonstrate how many of these “lost” parts are actually part of songs they know, but maybe didn’t know had these “extra” parts to them!"

-Jim