A woman froze to death last night. Her boyfriend had warned her repeatedly not to go out because it was too cold, but she didn't listen.

Oh, that's sick ... but I got it ...

I also saw a story about a poor family that froze to death watching "Closed for the winter" at the local drive-in.
(a bit outdated? LOL)

Outdated depending on where you live ... we have a at least one in RI that has that sign on it, and will open again in the spring ...
But then, RI is a bit outdated ...
Right, Steve? ...

I was in Quebec City back in the 1970s, visiting a friend, and we were discussing the local weather conditions with some of his friends. One of them said that during the previous winter he had heard a weather warning that it was going to be so cold that nobody should go outside. Well, being British, he thought he wanted to experience what "cold" was and he went outside. Some folks are just curious, I guess.

... and don't forget THIS tragic death

Saw Don's Post expecting the worst. Chuckled a bit... then saw U.D.'s posted cartoon later today. Somebody has a fertile mind and sense of humor. Thanks for that, both of you.

Dave, I'm not sure about you.
John C.

(not for kids language)

Hope he carries a defibrillator in his car.

Isn't he the "milk and bread" guy?

The same age young age group that is complaining about that old song won't say the same thing about the hip hop songs of their current generation that talk about women like garbage...that's art..but this old song wasn't in its day? different???

Where is #metoo vs rap lyrics? If todays standards don't fit yesterdays music, then why are they being applied to it, making head!ines? More importantly, why aren't they applied to todays music?

True, Sparky. I suppose rap is an artistic expression of sorts, but I'll never call it music.

Me neither, but that's another story. It just annoys me that lyrics that are way more explicit and denegrating to women result in carts full of Grammy awards and big $$ performing contracts currently being handed out to their writers and performers in the middle of all this new outrage..

Me too, Sparky. It's all pretty sad.

It's all perspective. What about Cole Porter's 'Love for Sale', performed on Broadway in 1930 (some of you probably attended it ). This has been considered a 'standard' for years and I've never heard a single complaint about the lyrics.....sample:

'I've got love for sale
If you'd like to sample my wares
Follow me and climb the stairs
I've got love for sale'

So I guess songs about prostitution are ok, huh? They're not 'explicit and denegrating to women'? Double standard maybe?

Just sayin'.

chas

Love For Sale...Great jazz instrumental versions by several greats, including Miles Davis.
Vocal renditions dating back to Billy Holiday and the great Ella Fitz. Yes, the lyrics are suggestive and are considered blue and not air worthy by many. However the lyrics do not use the N word, the F word, the D word, the C word or even the W word. Nor did they suggest the violence so graphically depicted mainly against women, as well as society in general.

So, Chas, are you 'just saying' Love For Sale should be compared to the common rap lyrics?

Eddie

How many kids today really listen to jazz? Vs rap?

Never heard the "F" Bomb dropped in Love For Sale. Maybe I missed something.

Gary

Looks like DonM's post has suffered a "Tragic Death" ...

What I'm 'just saying' is that I don't paint ALL rap lyrics with one brush. It's when people generalize that bad things happen. Your post would suggest that ALL rap lyrics (and by extension, the people that create them) are vile, vulgar, violent, vicious, and above all, valueless. So yes, I disagree. I don't know how much rap you've listened to, but for those willing to approach it with an open mind, there is a lot of creativity in much of it. It also, in some cases, reflects the environment some of these artists were forced to grow up in. It is a reflection of urban culture, a culture most of us, including me (although I'm Black) are not familiar with. We all know that unfamiliarity breeds distrust, suspicion, and sometimes, extreme bias and negativity.

I'm not a fan of Rap or Hip-Hop but that's a musical preference; I don't hate the people that produce it nor do I think that it's all the same. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, and after a certain age these inherent attitudes are hard to overcome.

So, do I compare Love for Sale to "rap lyrics". Depends. WHICH Rap lyrics? If you mean the ones that demeans and denigrates women? Well, despite the choice of words, BOTH DO! So the question is, are there DEGREES of denigration? Is it ok to denigrate women 'just a little bit', especially if you don't use any 'alphabet' words? I don't know. To me, a word is a word is a word; it's the MESSAGE that's important. So in that sense YES, I do equate Love for Sale with SOME Rap lyrics. As far as using the 'alphabet words' in art, how about the Emmy-winning cable TV shows and Oscar-winning movies that are laced with every conceivable vulgarity? Do they count? Of course the 'typical Rap artist' is not usually prominently featured in this media so I suppose that makes it ok .

I have said many times that I have given up trying to get anyone over 50 to view social issues with an open-minded perspective (note DNJ's response above ) so I'm not sure why I'm writing this but you've always been nice and respectful in the past and I thought I owed you a response.

chas

Thanks for the response Chas. Your posts always reflect wisdom, experience and sound educational background.
However, my opinion remains: if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Chas, seriously, I understand where you stand. As usual you have eloquently made your point. I've been around long enough to know neither of us is going to change the other's mind. Carry on.
Eddie

For years I was unable to appreciate rap. I guess I wasn't open to it. Then in the 90s I heard "Gangsta's Paradise" by Coolio and I heard a new dimension I hadn't heard before. I have since heard other hiphop/rap tracks that have really grabbed my attention. There is something about the dramatic punctuation of rap that really adds power to a message.

It is not the type of music that offends people, it is how man uses that music that offends people.
All music has its place. They called some of the music of my time elevator music. The music did not cause that, it was man that caused it.
John C.

Gee Nigel, what a coincidence. Gangsta's Paradise was also the first 'Rap' song I was able to warm up to. It's a classic and I still like it to this day. I'm just not a big fan of "put your hands in the air, act like you really don't care" type Rap (or HipHop - I'm not really sure what the difference is ). I dislike the fact that in some of the most popular Rap, the best parts of it are samples (usually from some other genre'). I do think that it is foolish not to acknowledge that Rap music is not an integral part of today's music scene and today's society in general. We may not LIKE it and we (as musicians) may never play it, and I, for one, will never enrich the coffers of today's Rap artists through the purchase of their products, but it's still there and widely embraced by the children and grandchildren of those that 'hate' it. But wait, didn't we go through this with Elvis?

Hey, I say 'live and let live'. "For everything there is a season". It took a long time for society to warm up to Picasso (some never have) or musically, Thelonius Monk or Frank Zappa. Give it time, at some point there will be 'Rap Sunday' at early Mass (got to keep those collection plates full somehow ), but I see the BIG explosion being in Tele-Evangalism - I can already picture JayZ in a flowing white robe saying 'put your hands in the air......'.

chas

Rap has been around much longer than people remember. When I was a teen in the "segregated south" Nix Creek flowed into and around parts of town. There was a swimming hole frequented by Blacks and Whites... often at the same time. No problems. I can remember hearing RAP ditties from youngsters and they were pretty graphic. One group would do their best to "out-do" the previous group... and I gained an "education of sorts" about all manner of things... LOL! This was during the WWII era.

Gotta admit, this feminist "take" on old traditional music has turned ugly and is impossibly stupid. Chas, have you ever heard "Love for Sale" played as an instrumental by Dave Brubeck? I faintly remember Martin Denny playing it once (also instrumental) at the International Marketplace in Honolulu years ago. Great song. Thanks for reminding me. ----Dave

You be the judge ....

PS: "Baby It's Cold Outside" offensive?

Trust Donny to miss the whole point. Nothing new there. Anyhow, yes Dave, I've heard many versions of the song, both vocal and instrumental. I even play the song; I like it (as a song). I only used it to show how different people view things through different cultural lenses, and how one thing that is familiar and comfortable to you may not seem offensive at all while something foreign will seem totally disgusting ALTHOUGH THEY MAY BE BEARING THE SAME MESSAGE. Let's be honest here; 98% of older Whites are going to hate Rap; period. But guess what. So do 98% of old Black folks. Sure, there is a very large racial component, but there is also a large GENERATIONAL component. In the meantime, you get posts like the one above whose sole purpose is to exacerbate an already toxic subject. Some people are just incapable of seeing below the surface of a complex social issue. I tend to ignore the thoughts, opinions, and mostly, the posts of these people as they add little of value to the conversation. 'nuff said.

chas

Chas your missing my point, ....certain sections of society create this false PC hypocritical state of mind where one way certain things are offensive but, then it's ok if others usually the same sections do and say the same thing without repercussions. Maybe Gary's right just get a bottle of Honey Jack and enjoy life without all the silly everyday drama. I am glad for one thing and that is channels on my Sirius radio in my truck so I can just set them and listen to what ever I want when I want as it should be.

Maybe life is that simple in your orbit but not in mine. Sadly, too many people in MY orbit do exactly what you propose....and nothing changes for the better.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your video post but I don't see how that video aligns with your explanation of it. I guess I'm just dense. But fine, if you meant well.

chas

That's ok Chas, ........that said, right now all I care about is two weeks of enjoying time with the family over the holidays and being thankful for what I have and of course all the great food and drink!!
I hope your doing the same.

Happy Holidays

Guy’s stop trying to prove that your opinion is the right one. The is no right one, they are JUST opinions made by someone with a different view.

I have had some tough days lately and I often use SynthZone to get past those days, please don’t MESS THAT UP.

Beat of everything for the holidays, John C.

I think todays AND yesterdays music ref!ect lifestyles of the time. The same argument can be made for both; its not a defense for one or the other when the content is offensive. Maybe it's a media thing, but my point is we don't see the criticism aimed at current music. Pointing out the mistakes of history is easy, learning from them, and changing takes more effort. I didn't intend to paint rap with a broad brush, but to illustrate that songs that do offend are not only old, but are currently being created, and rewarded in contradiction to the current climate. And not getting negative press like an old Christmas song. THAT is the double standard I object to..
The music industry's answer is to label music with an explicit lyric warning; so its okay and socially acceptable as long as they tell you about the content? The #me too movement is now saying "No". So where's the backlash? Its about $$, sales, not social responsibility in the entertainment industry. The record companies, artists and consumers are not feeling guilty..because the money is rolling in.

Sparky, well said, I didn’t think you were that smart –NICE! (smile)

I should have known from your: “The old I get the more I realize how good I was”. It says so much.

Sparky you’re a plus here, Merry Christmas.
John C.

I think the difference is that unlike previous forms of musical entertainment the focus is much more on the vocal presentation rather than the musical instrumentation. If the vocal message isn't there then for me there is nothing. But when the vocal message IS there then it becomes a powerful force. Here is a 14 year old rapper whose father was a rapper who was murdered just before she was born. Her performance is profound and her father would be so proud of her.

I LOVE elevator music. I dunno how many times I have been in an elevator where I can name the artist and track name ... because I have it in my own musical collection.

Found this very interesting.

“Jazz is the mother of hip-hop”



Jerryghr