Let’s simplify this, ask any musician why he chose the instrument he plays and they will tell you that it does what it wants and was at the right price, ask him why he didn’t choose another type of instrument and he will tell you that they do not do what they want or were too expensive, there is no one size fits all and to get upset because someone didn’t choose the instrument you play is immature.
A number arranger players complain that pro musicians look down on arrangers and their players, then they do exactly the same and look down on other musicians that chose a different type of instrument to an arranger, however as I said in my first paragraph, there is no one size fits all, so just accept it like musicians have been doing for 100s of years. (Throwing your toys out the pram because someone has different needs to you is a pointless exercise)

Bill

Fran ... No harm, no foul ... the list didn't mean anything to me ... All 'tongue in cheek' ...

Bill no one has thrown their toys out the pram . It’s an arranger discussion board and we are politely and courteously discussing ideas about the use of (and misunderstandings about arranger keyboards ) in relation to professional use .

I can frame it this way , we know that the automatic styles differentiate arranger keyboards from other workstation or performance keyboards . The automation element means that the pro musician can sound like a full orchestra , or a pop jazz or funk band or a trio and pretty much anything in between immediately without the use of supplementary software or hard ware . Something that only very talented musicians can do with multiple keyboards , not just one . So we are clear , we know that if a pro musician never ever requires to earn a living by supplementing his/her income from this type of functionality then styles may not be essential .

We also know that the vast majority of pro musicians don’t make mega bucks , don’t tour with Jay Z , don’t have roadies and don’t go on world tours . That’s a very small proportion of pro musicians .

But pretty much everyone agrees styles are useful for sketching out quickly ideas and prototype songs which might have income generating benefits . Think tv , radio , promotional musical snippets . I believe at least one member here makes a healthy living doing just this or mostly this .

The question I have asked multiple times and to date have not even heard a plausibly relevant answer is why would a pro musician not use an arranger to play in professional use ?

I would like to know what functions does a pro musician use their instrument for 90% of the time , whether live in a band , on the road , in a pub club or studio ,that they can only do on a non arranger keyboard ?

Is it stacking multiple layers of sounds ? How many layers do most pro’s use , 2,3,4,8 ? When does it start to sound like crap ?


Is it the manipulation of sound ? Filters , sweeps , effects editing , envelope editing and sculpturing ? Is it polyphony or split points ?

Is it controller functionality ?

Is it sampling sounds and manipulating the sample to make your own sound ?

Is it sequencing songs within the keyboard before taking it to the studio to do the full flush production ?

Some one please enlighten me what is it that pro musicians do with their instruments 90% of the time that they could not do on let’s say the korg pa4x keyboard. I have mine set up in the house so I can see if the answers I get “it any “ are plausible.

Not looking for an argument . I am looking for answers . I am not a pro musician but as gospel musician I get to work with pro musicians and I can tell you that ignorance and peer pressure is very real in the gospel semi pro circuits I move within certainly in the uk

I actually prefer using arranger keyboard playing in live band, I can select sounds to left or right hand faster and change octaves etc. also new arranger keyboards (like Genos) come with better sounds than many of the workstation keyboards

I don't know but it must be some reason pro musicians buy synth/workstations probably 100/1 over arrangers. And trust me, manufacturers know this. Who knows, maybe pro's are just dumber than the rest of us. Oh, and one more factor; AGE. I'm willing to bet that the average arranger keyboard buyer is over 60 while the average age of the synth/workstation buyer is probably 20-35. Same as back when there were only easy-play home organs.

chas

Funny you should mention layers. (and more layers) Fran and I discovered long ago that the more layers you add, the more it turns into a FARFISA ... not that that's a bad thing, but you start to loose the individual integrity of each voice, and they combine to make a brand new (organish) entity. Some like that sound. Even I like the mega timbre of a theatre organ, but not for what I usually do. I like a more stripped down tonality ... like I was playing in my favorite band. Good solid bass player, Ringo on drums (not flashy), tasty keyboard comps, with string, choir, organ layers when needed, and a funky rhythm guitarist. Add a tight horn section, and I'm in heaven.
An arranger keyboard puts all those elements at my fingertips.

Chas, I'll take a stab at this

First and foremost Pro caliber players are clueless what can be obtained from a top arranger keyboard.. and yes it has the ability to do anything they can do live with a workstation synth.

Secondly, They do not want to be affiliated with average players that actually can sound as good as they do, to the average listener..

3rd,,, The stigma of what they were taught to believe as true , but never understood the truth..(sort of like a democrat)

No I don't want to talk politics

Great answer Fran

Great answer??? Why would a "professional caliber" player be more "clueless" than some ol' fart who after 50 years has barely risen to the status of competent amateur. What we're talking about here is TECHNOLOGY. Can you honestly say that 'Grandpa' knows more about Xbox and playstation than the average teenager? Grandpa can barely figure out the object of the game. We say that pro musicians are clueless about arrangers and their capabilities but how much does the average (elderly) arranger player know about the capabilities of modern synth/workstations? I'm guessing, not much. Among arranger players, you will find that it's the most technically sophisticated (about 5%) that are most likely to include synths, workstations, and VSTi's in there arsenals. They are also usually younger than their arranger-playing peers. There are acclaimed pianist, acclaimed organist, acclaimed violinist, acclaimed guitarist, even acclaimed synthesist (sp) ie. Jan Hammer to Corry Henry, but to my knowledge, NO acclaimed Arranger players. This may speak to it's legitimacy as a distinct instrument (that's for you to decide).

So many of the posts in this thread have had such a strong defensive nature, but wasn't triggered by the original post (go back and read it). That started with DONNY'S series of 'stigma' posts and went nuts from there. Ironic too, since he is one of the biggest complainers of taking a post 'south'. Since the consensus here is that I am an arranger hater (totally untrue - I've owned a string of them going back to the G800), every post that appears to be aimed at me, no matter how far-fetched or factually inaccurate, always gets a rousing cheer from the rank and file. Oh well, it's lonely here at the top .

chas

I have no comments you folks have said just about everything that needs to be said.