I‘ve been interested in climatology and weather since the 1980s.
Yesterday, all former all-time-highs in Germany have been crushed in a way never seen before - and in unusual locations.
While the extremes were 40.2 - 40.3 C (104F) before, measured in the upper Rhine valley in the southwest and in Northern Bavaria (Franconia), yesterday more than 20 stations in the west and northwest of Germany set new all-time highs. They reached 41.6 C (107 F) in Northrhine Westphalia, and one station further north reached 42.6C (109F), however many meteorologists criticize that it doesn‘t fully meet the standards (open field etc.). So, taking the second ranked station, it is still 41.6 C and unbelievable for Germany.
The Netherlands have also reached 40 C for the first time ever.
Forests are dying in Germany, as last year was already marked by a severe drought.
So much for climate change, as it is experienced in Central Europe, certainly more than in the Eastern US in the past years...

For reference:
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-forests-on-the-verge-of-collapse-experts-report/a-49659810

Climate change is very real despite those who deny it.

There is no one that denies climate change, (Ok perhaps the Flat Earthers and those that say we never went to the moon) as it’s been going from hot to cold and back for millions of years, how much is caused by human beings is the argument, some say it is all caused by humans, (Which is totally bonkers as it has been going on well before the human race came into existence) while others say it is natural, (Which is also bonkers as human beings are part of the eco system so will automatically affect it) the problem is all the climate scientists are focussed on the human equation (Which is where all the research money is being spent) hoping this will fix the problem, whereas in reality they should also be focussing on building defences against climate change as a backup. (Putting all your eggs in one basket is not a good idea)

Bill

I think both is being done, the attempt to limit the further anthropogenic contribution as well as adaptation to it. Higher dams against flooding, development of more resistant crops etc.
The arguments for a strong human impact are that in the past the temperature rise was never as fast as this time, and it obviously didn‘t affect all parts of the earth simultaneously as it is doing at present (except Eastern US )

The bark beetle destroying spruces in German forests due to the drought since 2018...

The spruce is not a naturally occuring tree in most of Germany. But they were planted in masses as a consequence of the allied forces after World War II as they instruced the population to cut masses of trees as burning material for heating in winter. Spruces were the fastest way to reestablish the forests, but they are more prone to drought and bark beetle ans also less resistent to severe storms.

Seen during a hike this week... bark beetle damage

Oh, the picture didn't upload, trying again:

The USA has a president who denies it ... though he isn't the brightest but that is no excuse.

The President of the US has not denied climate change - He, like many climate scientist, does not believe it is man made. Neither do I.

Fact: The planet is on the verge of not having enough C02 to support the growth of plants. Source - NOAA

Fact: The warmest the planet has been in recorded history was during the 1930s, long before the industrial revolution. Source - NOAA

Fact: We are experiencing fewer and less intense hurricanes and droughts. Source - NOAA

Fact: The Antarctic Ice Pack is the largest it has been in recorded history. Source - NOAA satellite data, which began in the mid 1970s.

Fact: The Antarctic is pack is thicker than anytime in recorded history: Source NOAA ice core samples.

Fact: It was recently revealed that undersea volcanic activity is responsible for much of the loss of the Arctic Ice Pack during the past 30 years. Source: NOAA and NATGEO.

Fact: Sea levels are not rising at an alarming rate. This has been documented at locations throughout the world, and in some locations particularly several Pacific islands, sea levels have actually fallen. Al Gore predicted that Baltimore and Miami would be under several feet of water by 2014 - both cities are the same level above sea level they were 100 years ago. Some islands in Chesapeake Bay have eroded away, but sea level is the same as it was 100 years ago. Scientist say those islands eroded away when the surrounding sea grasses were wiped out by pollution and commercial crab dredging for soft shelled crabs.

Fact: All the polar bears are dying because of the decreasing Arctic Ice Pack - NOT! According to the USFWS the polar bear population is higher than it has been in more than 100 years and growing. A recent documentary revealed that more polar bears are killed by walrus wounds than disease or starvation. The documentary revealed that polar bears are only successful in killing a seal for food in one of twenty attempts. Walrus are not afraid of polar bears and outweigh them by a considerable amount. Plus, nothing has a worse disposition than a pissed off walrus when a bear moves in to try to kill one of it's offspring.

Fact: The Arctic Ice Pack is growing and much of it has returned to areas where it was 50 years ago. This is particularly true in Iceland and northern Greenland. Source - Latest NOAA satellite data and NATGEO.

Yes, the climate is changing, and according to the latest NOAA, real time data, it is slowly getting cooler - not warmer. The climate has been changing since the planet was spawned and will continue to change, regardless of what we do to prevent it. Who in their right mind could have ever thought that we puny humans could influence the climate of the globe? Granted, we have managed to pollute our air and water, but the air is cleaner now than it was 50 years ago. Does anyone remember when thousands of people in London died because of smog and thermal inversions? How about the smog in California during the 1970s when it was so dense you could barely see the other end of the street you lived on? Same held true during the same era in Tokyo and Hong Kong. I was in all those cities when air pollution was horrible - this is no longer the case.

How is this possible? How could the air quality in those cities improve while the number of cars has nearly doubled and the human population has more than doubled? Well, I guess we cleaned up our exhaust emissions, especially here in the US. But, we could use a bit more C02 if we want to keep up with the demand for food on the planet. We are, according to several sources, very close to not having enough.

After 79 years of residing on planet Earth, and traveling much of the entire world, I am convinced that we are in more danger of drowning in our own filth than climate change. We have managed to pollute nearly all of our major rivers and their tributaries to the point where the water must be heavily treated in order to make it safe to drink. Our sewage treatment plants are mostly outdated and in serious need of upgrades. Many just spray the untreated sewage into domes with ultraviolet lights, then dose it heavily with chlorine to kill the bacteria. Then, the watery sludge is dumped into the nearest waterway - the same waterways where we continue to harvest our seafood and claim it is perfectly safe to eat - UGH!

As for those spruce beetles, well in the northwest and western US where spruce trees are native, those same beetles have taken their toll or hundreds of years - it's a natural thing. That timber is harvested, cut into boards and new, more resistant trees are planted in their place. I suspect that the German logging industry will eventually follow the US footsteps and do the same thing.

I only visit the bar a couple times a year, so don't be surprised if I don't respond to any counter views in a timely manner. Beside, I really do not like to argue with people about any subject - it's just not my nature.

Have a wonderful day, everyone,

Gary

I think the president believes in whatever is good for business. Given his penchant for lying and his general ignorance of all things consequential, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what he SAYS he does or doesn't believe. I mean, who can believe a chronic liar with a self-proclaimed 'big brain' (I'm guessing hydro-cephalic) except those who refuse to see a bombastic, bullying, narcissist for what he really is. But, to paraphrase, in a free society, you get the leader you deserve. Have a wonderful day.

chas

Chas, you are obviously describing Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton. Barrack Obama, Adam Schif, Nancy Pelosi, etc. At least HE has kept his campaign promises.

Now, how about citing those lies you are referring to. I keep hearing those on the left and never Trumpers making those claims, but they never seem to be able cite the so-called lies. Hmmmmm!

All the best, old friend,

Gary

Gary, I'm not having this 'debate' with you. Believe whatever you like. If a president demonstrably puts his own interests ahead of the country's, has been documented as having publicly lied on more than 11,000 occasions, rolled back regulations for clean air and clean water, promoted the increased production and use of fossil fuels (including coal), openly and blatantly promotes and enables the business interests of himself and his children while in office, coddling and friending some of the worlds worst and most brutal dictators while alienating America's closest allies, demeaning (and physically assaulting) women, sowing hatred and division through his constant attacts on anyone who doesn't look like him. The fact that he is the darling of racist, White supremacist, and bigots of every stripe, says all that needs to be said about this man. As much as I'd like to be friends with everyone, I cannot call myself a friend to anyone who can set aside their value systems, their sense of morality and decency, and support this man. As far as the "35%", I just have to believe that they're either blatantly ignorant or just bad people.

My opinions here are NOT based on politics. It's based on my sense of morality, decency, patriotism, common sense, and the FACTS. In the future, just save all the "Hillary", "Obama", "Pelosi", bullshit; I've already heard all the so-called 'talking points'. Besides, Sean Hannity does a much better job of it.

chas

"There is none so blind as he that WILL not see"......The Bible

Guess what: 97% of climate scientists worldwide come to the conclusion that global warming is anthropogenic (man-made).
How rational is it of non-scientists to believe otherwise? Not rational at all.

And regarding Trump: I don't know to what extent he has fulfilled his campaign promises - but certainly there are much WORSE things than not keeping campaign promises. For example, giving youngsters a perfect model that conveys the message that lying is perfectly ok, being selfish is a good principle for life, sacrificing basic human rights of people BORN intersexual or transsexual for the sake of ill-minded religious convictions is a good stance etc. etc.
I'm wishing the Democrats the best of luck in carrying out their constitutional duty of checking what's going on in the White House.

As an outsider to your country, never in my life seen such a bunch of cowardly, corrupt clowns. And I read everything of value I can find on what is happening over there...

But then, I am not brain washed by fake news & I guess that helps. Gary, you've got my respect sir. Over there to be "in" you HAVE to oppose the current duly ELECTED president.

They'd rather sympathize with the child traffickers, high flying child molesters, corrupt to the core, murderous wannabe country leaders. Oh, I guess I'll also be on their hit list now... Where did the last murdered tally stand? Just more & more dead bodies following EVERYTHING they touch... Yet they are being worshiped like gods by those claiming to be highly intelligent.

What?? Conspiracy theories? Yeh, only for those who do not search for the real facts for themselves.

Sorry, I have zero finesse, I say things like they are!

Wow, was that a re-tweet from a Russian 'troll farm'?....or just another idiotic post. I'd say, if you're trying to spread hate and division (in a country NOT your own), you should first try to clean up your message. It's amazing to me how quickly the worst, most evil movements in one country can catch the attention and spread among the losers in other countries. Of course countries like South Africa have such a rich history of democracy, racial harmony, equality, etc., who wouldn't want to use them as a societal model (sarcasm intended). I think we already have enough homegrown stupidity and bigotry, we don't need to import more. BTW, aren't you supposed to be some kind of 'religious' person? Jeez, no wonder I'm an atheist.

chas

In South Africa at least we admit the corruption. We do not worship the government. We detest it. However, we accept that the majority voted for it. We do not eat, sleep & live with nothing but "impeachment" on our brain. (What a joke & what a shame & what a circus...) Honestly, the rest of the world laughs & this is not my opinion but what I read daily.

Because I'm some kind of 'religious' person the things done by some over there bothers me tremendously. No, It's not hatred, it's calling a spade a spade.

It's idiotic hating your president the way some do! His track record is a lot cleaner than those you worship so fervently. No-one is perfect and he is certainly not.

But at least you cannot attach same to him than the things I've pointed out above. He was legally elected yet you do not make room for that - it's all about what YOU want and not what the majority stated in their voting. Wonder where the title describing your group came from as it certainly does not fit...

It takes an extreme character to operate in the environment he finds himself in daily. Yet he is doing it and doing it rather well.

Others cannot help but to take note especially about a country which is in the headline news almost daily. You read only what your corrupt state biased media feeds you. As an outsider I read everything & put 2 & 2 together for myself.

Just MAYBE if you also read here and here and here and, ONLY if you want to be severely ratled, also here - with an open mind - ALONG, with what else you read daily you'll get a broader picture of what's really happening in your own country.

We in South Africa do not impact the world, so no-one cares - you in the USA DO! so everyone should care & take note.

Clearly you don't see the harm you do by spreading this right-wing fantasy-world horseshit espoused by 'Trump Nation', spearheaded by the likes of Sean Hannity, Stephen Miller, and other Trump disciples. Of course we also know that those who have overdosed on the 'koolaid' can never again return to the world of sanity. Instead of meddling in our political affairs, perhaps you would be better served solving the problems in your own country (of which there are many). This is what people do when they've got too much time on their hands (a job would help solve that problem - you're always complaining about your dire financial situation and lack of income).

Here's the thing. You try to speak authoritatively about things you don't have a clue about and are eager to accept as fact anything, no matter how ridiculous, that fits in with your personal philosophy and view of the world. Like your heroes over here, it appears you'd also like to return to those good ol' days when some people were a little more equal than others (and you were lucky enough be in that group). News flash! Ain't gonna happen. Technology, despite some accompanying negatives, has (and will continue) to make the world more integrated because of the increased cultural awareness it brings. The 'Trumpian' qualities that you so admire, misogyny, sexism, racism, separatism, tribalism, super-nationalism, antisemitism, IOW, all the bad 'ism's; will never win out and be the 'law of the land', for one simple reason; there are more good people than bad out there, and America, despite it's spotty history, has always managed to survive these bouts of insanity and emerge a better, stronger nation. YOU can help with this by keeping your crap-stirring propaganda over on your side of the pond.

chas

No one so blind as he who CHOOSE not to see... But then you close your eyes to a lot of things, don't you?

+1

I tend to judge the quality of a person's opinion by the quality of their information sources. 'nuff said.

chas

Just have a look what kind of "sources" are referred to here, it's just incredible...

http://allnewspipeline.com/Dissension_In...Ve5YEQ_Jce4O6To

Let's recap a bit, shall we? I am talking to someone who has no respect for their duly elected president, yet they call themselves Demo-what?

That says it all! Nothing else will cut it coming from that camp.

Do you handle everything else pertaining to your laws in the same disrespect fashion?

Man, the things I read here almost want to take me out of my hibernation.

Taike, Wow, really glad to see you pop up. Miss your intellect, brother. We could use a little around here. Hope you and the family are doing okay. I guess 'Little Wolf' is quite a young man now. Give us an update (PM if you like).

chas

Never mind, stay "hibernated" unless you desire a serious discussion on this topic.

You all claim to have the support of your fellow citizens - with elections just round the corner you should not have a worry in the world, now should you?

Beats talking to idiots.

BIG intellectual brother (HOOOOoooo, I shiver when I type this!!!),

Talking of idiots:

On AVCOM, our local aviation forum for commercial pilots, I've dealt man alone with atheist for nearly a full year. We discussed everything there is to discuss with regards to their view on religion. Some (if not most) of them were millionaires, all of them extremely intellectual.

In the end all of them gave up as I could refute EVERY SINGLE ONE of their numerous erroneous assumptions & beliefs.

We can go there again should you wish as it was fun whilst it lasted plus I now know all the arguments that you use. I am used to the heat as this topic can sure warm up a LOT! Plus I am used to be threatened by them to be banned from the forum when their vain arguments became pointless for all to see. Also, when an atheist runs out of valid comments, they revert to their favorite pastime which is name calling - you cannot come up with anything I have not been called yet, but please keep on trying - "idiot" is a good start. This time round I'll do same though as acting civilized makes no impression on you.

However, for now we are discussing the complete discontent you have for your duly elected president, elected LAWFULLY by a system you yourselves put in place.

You guys are nothing but sore loosers and the term Democrat do not describe you actions at all! I say again, the rest of the world is laughing at your vain attempts to change things back to your personal liking. Because of your actions, your nation is now more divided than ever before - you do not need enemies from outside, you will eventually completely destroy your country all by yourself.

Why don't you VOTE things back to your way of liking if you have as much support as you PRETEND to have? The time is now for that, is it not? Would that not be the more civilized, lawful way to achieve it? Is that not the correct way your system was designed to operate? Instead of using all this smear tactics you currently do.

The very ones driving these tactics a mere hair breadth away of facing jail sentences for themselves for their misconduct & own corruption.

Alas, 'fraid the REAL idiots cannot understand nor comprehend the above as they are just too "intellectual"...

NO true Atheist would ever call a religious person names, so you were probably just arguing with someone who was just anti-religion, which is not the same thing.
The way I look at it is, anyone (Of any description) that allows Rape, Murder, Famine, Torture, Genocide and persecution of people who are trying to help others etc. when they have the power to prevent it, will never get any support from me.
Others think different and that is their choice, and providing they do not try and impose their views on others (Discussion is fine) then that is what freedom is about, and which I will always support.

Bill

"We can go there again should you wish as it was fun whilst it lasted plus I now know all the arguments that you use. I am used to the heat as this topic can sure warm up a LOT! Plus I am used to be threatened by them to be banned from the forum when their vain arguments became pointless for all to see. Also, when an atheist runs out of valid comments, they revert to their favorite pastime which is name calling - you cannot come up with anything I have not been called yet, but please keep on trying - "idiot" is a good start. This time round I'll do same though as acting civilized makes no impression on you."

-Show us the threats made by us. If you can prove your god exists, proving that we made threats to you should be very easy.

-Well, it sure doesn't bother you to call us idiots, does it? So don't play the victim now. "Idiot" is a synonym for "fool" and you should know what the bible says on calling people names. I guess your hypocrisy just took over your faith.

-By the way, you really have some issues for making it about religion. Anyway, you're a liar for I don't believe for a second that you could win an argument with an atheist. Right now, prove to me that god exists! Just remember this, there's no Nobel Prize in Religion for a reason. But if you have solid proof, by gosh, you'll no longer have to live on a meager budget. You'd be raking in millions. The burden of proof is on the believers.

-All what you've shown is that you're a hypocrite and a hateful little man who cares neither for fact nor truth.

Bill, I have hundreds of saved communications supporting my statement. Let's not go there cause you will force me to post it here to prove my point. One I thing I never do is lie.

I stand firm but what I've said.

Henni

Are you inviting me to a debate? Not over here though, as this topic turned into support for the smear campaign against your duly elected president by those who claim full support from their fellow Americans yet unwilling to abide by the majority votes presented by same group.

First things first, he's not my president. "Smearing" is his middle name so if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for those who oppose him. But go ahead, defend the one who makes fun of the disabled, who disrespects women (grab them by the pussy), who believes wind turbines cause cancer, totally ignores facts, is a chronic liar, creates fake news, etc. This tells me more about you than you can about me.

This place is as good as any for a debate. You still haven't answered my questions, though.

Good, let's start discussing His much debated Book then.

Can Bible prophecies about the future be believed?

Just see how many prophecies were fulfilled in the life of Jesus

Proof of God?

I asked you before to prove that your god exists and I'm still waiting for an answer.

Science in the Bible.

Tell you what, He inspired His Book personally. If that means nothing to you, why don't you rather prove to me that he does not exist? It boils down to same, does it not?

His proof is in His Word.

Another consideration.

More to ponder upon.

Consider this.

Vs Dawkins.

All you've given me so far is circular reasoning; It's in the bible so it must be true.

Consider this also.

You obviously read nothing of it - arrogant like all atheists are. Narrow minded like no other group on this planet!

I dare you to dare Him to touch you personally... You should not be afraid seeing that He's not real.

HEY!!! YOU god!!! Yes YOU!!! - IF you are at all out there I dare you to touch me IF you can. IF you are for real then show me!!!

...should suffice if you mean it when you shout it, even mockingly.

So,

Amongst others I've listed over 100 scientific facts recorded in His Book hundreds, if not thousands of years before discovered by science.

1. Show me ANY writings from ANY other group that boast same.
2. Where did this foreknowledge come from?
3. Was "evolution" behind all of it?

What did you so carelessly write about fools just a few posts back?

The bible is one book of one religion, what makes it correct and all the other religions and books wrong?
BTW: the texts you posted prove only that God exists in the mind, there is no verifiable factual proof, and also the prophecies are so loose they could easily apply to anything, so again are not proof in any measured or scientific form.
If you want to prove a God exists provide evidence that can be verified, just like scientific evidence has to be verified before it is accepted.
This is my final post in this thread, so I hope you had a good Christmas and have a prosperous new year.

Bill

Bill, I agree with you on all but one point. I do believe one can be an atheist and anti-religious at the same time. I consider myself an atheist and when I reflect on some of the horrific acts perpetrated on their fellow man by 'religious' zealots, I find it hard to remain neutral in my feelings about religion. Although there have been many good acts performed in the name of religion, they are FAR outnumbered by the sometimes worldwide atrocities committed in the name of religion. Furthermore, it seems the more fervently the religion is practiced, the higher the likelihood of the persecution of the 'non-believers', especially if the 'true believers' are in the majority. I don't need to recount examples of this, as they are well known.

To me, the level of credibility for the existence of 'God' is the same as for werewolves, witches, vampires, Sasquatch, and certainly, the gods of Mt. Olympus. I mean, when you get right down to it, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? A book? A book written by man (but inspired by 'God', you know, the one we can't prove exists). As Taike said, circular thinking. Of course we also know that there is little or no room for logic or reason in the mind of the true believer. The kind of religious fervor that causes people to fly planes into buildings or blow themselves up is hard to comprehend unless you have also been brainwashed to the same level. There's got to be an easier way to experience 73(?) virgins. Heck, there's not even a guarantee that they'd be attractive virgins. Talk about a crap-shoot. Anyhoo, in the words of Ron Reagan, "proud Atheist here, not afraid to burn in hell".

chas

a Person consists of:

1. a Body
2. a Soul
3. a Spirit

When He touches you upon your personal request to Him, He physically exchanges your Spirit with His. Think of things like "a new spirit I will give them and CAUSE them to follow My ordinances" recorded in His Book. (Everything I state now is Biblical, but you would not care to read it even should I list it)

This is not some abstract thing, it is physical & it is very real. Hence the term "born again".

Every person without exception who've been through this will testify to this. All of a sudden one becomes a new person, although this process is gradual and not immediate.

It works from the inside outwards - it is Him changing you, not you changing yourself because of some new values that you've discovered.

Religion = dead = finding some new values and trying to change accordingly.

Being born again = live = automatic = having NOTHING to do with oneself apart from a full surrender to Him.

Think of statements like "the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life" amongst others things listed in His Book also.

Now, His Book warns you to consider the price to be paid before going for the above. For the religious, the price to pay is purely what they forfeit in this life based on their new choice of values.

For the born again individual, the price to pay is guaranteed, no matter what you do or don't. This price includes but is not limited to:

1. Being ridiculed
2. Being hated
3. Being totally rejected
4. Loosing your life with it's benefits
5. Loosing ones rights to anything
6. Loosing success
7. Loosing ones will
8. Loosing ones security, even from ones own family
9. ... I can start to quote from His Book, but for now it will make no impression so I'll stick to basic descriptions only. Think of things like i.e. "and they loved not their own lives even unto death" & "they gladly accepted the spoiling of their goods" recorded in His Book for starters only.

Benefits includes:

1. Hearing His audible voice from time to time
2. Finding peace which cannot be described with normal reasoning faculties
3. Interaction with His Spirit which is very real for those used to it
4. Loose all fear pertaining to this life
5. ... There are many more of no value to the current readers.

It is not ones new belief redeeming one in the after life, it is His Spirit now residing inside of one.

Note: There is a reason He is called "Lord of hosts" & I can tell you this is no exaggeration in the least. It is like science fiction, it is real & for most who don't understand it, it is scary.

You can talk to a born again believer in the artic, unhampered by the influence of others. Next you can talk to a born again believer in the amazon, uninfluenced by others - they will talk EXACTLY the same thing, right down to the commas & dots. Even those in extremely dense populated & industrialized areas will talk the same thing. They were all trained by His Spirit, not by man made dogmas. To me this is one of the greatest miracles of true salvation.

The other amazing thing is that, a mere simple verbal surrender to Him, which comes from the heart, will set all of the above in motion. It is not linked to some training or courses or anything similar, but ONLY to a fully surrendered life to Him.

Interesting read Henni. I'd love to debate 'religion' with you except that we both know the futility of trying to have a logical debate with someone with a belief system as strong as yours. For you, the answers are pre-ordained and no amount of logic, science, or just plain ol' common sense, is going to put a dent in it. That's all well and good until you start insisting that all others also subscribe to your belief system. That, of course, is where the trouble starts and where good deeds can change into bad acts. If your 'religion' brings you comfort from the realities of 'real' life, then fine, I say go for it. If you choose to believe myths and fairy tails over science, logic, and reason, go for it. I agree that it is much easier to believe that ALL will be revealed in the afterlife rather than doing the science to figure out what is REALLY going on. I understand the appeal of simply capitalizing a pronoun (His, Him....first of all, how do we know it's a 'Him' and not a 'Her'?) to bring a mystical being into existence, one that will solve all your problems, calm all your fears, and provide forgiveness for all your transgressions.....the bonus being an afterlife, fabulous beyond belief, that lasts forever.....and all the while, that nasty neighbor that never returned your tools, is burning in Hell forever (serves him right).

No one wants to believe that when life ends, it ENDS (except in the memories of those still here). Centuries of human interaction and evolving science has taught us HOW to peacefully coexist, with each other and with our natural environment, it just hasn't given us the WILL to do it.

For me, religion is a crutch; an excuse NOT to seek REAL answers to the mysteries of the universe. It has always been used to control people, usually at the expense of free will. Getting people mired in poverty to donate what little they have to build elaborate monuments to this unseen but all-powerful 'god' who is watching and judging our every act. Powerful stuff, considering not a single ounce of it is provable. But hey, if the spirit moves you.......

BTW, when I look at your 'price' list for being 'born again', it doesn't seem like much of a bargin. That would be a hard, hard sell for me.

chas

Chas,

When I was much younger, in my seventeens, I started reading Lopsan Rhampas books about astral projection. I progressed to the point where one evening I left my body, hovered just under the ceiling and stared at myself lying in my bed.

I was so excited, I woke my parents who of course thought I was nuts.

There are many things & realms outside of what we know as mere humans. I know for a fact that it does not all end when one leaves this form of life.

Secondly, I am INTENSELY interested in near death experiences. Because of current medical technology, the medical profession regularly brings the dead back to life. I love to read their stories, verifying everything recorded in His Book.

There are instances of describing in great detail what the doctors did to them, those in the room discussed and even describing some things seen lying on the hospital roof which were found afterwards exactly as described, to everyone's amazement. In one case reading back something written in ink at the bottom of a shoe lying on the roof.

Any search on the internet pertaining to NDE's will produce a wealth of information to be investigated.

Thirdly, I have personally heard His audible voice on the odd occasions in my life. I am normally severely attacked & ridiculed for stating this, but my own personal search in the contents of His Book revealed more than a thousand references to it. I can list all thousand plus cases here should you wish as this makes for some interesting read indeed.

Next, as for most of those that had an supernatural encounter with Him, their lives were never the same afterwards. Some sold their businesses, using whatever they've accumulated to help the poor. Many now had this supernatural glow on their faces which indicates the new peace beyond all human understanding that they've found in the process.

Then there is the training by His Spirit which simply cannot be explained. His Book is full of instances where He requested "separate unto Me..." It is in confinement that one is being trained, without other human beings influencing one.

There are so many other things along these lines that I absolutely love to discuss. My ex wife left me after 33 years of marriage. I was to blame, although it did not pivot around any affair or something similar.

I was 55 at the time. My biggest concern was growing old alone as I do not socialize where one regularly meet others. Thus, upon someones advice, I met a widow on a chat site. We went out for three months and were starting to talk marriage.

The next thing I know, was that for SEVEN nights in a row I was woken-ed with only these audible words: "I do not approve of this relationship"

At first I was severely annoyed, but later gave in and broke up the relationship. Less than three months later I met Monica. When she started backing out of our short courting relationship, she was audibly told in the night " I will MAKE you marry this man"

We have now been married for ten years. She is eighteen years younger than me.

I can & most probably WILL list some outstanding things (miracles) that happened to me personally in my lifespan, some of those amazing me even to this day.

Thus I find ample non Biblical alone examples making me believe in a after life and higher power. Maybe we'll end up discussing those over here, however previous discussion amongst these lines always turned sour very quickly. So I'll list them as this debate continues.

Henni

Chas,

You will not find this being referenced in the "churches" as it steals their business. That's why they choose to paint the Gospel with their own versions of success, being in control, being something special, always expecting to win every fight in life etc. etc. when in effect it is the EXACT opposite of what they proclaim.

THIS is immediately where you can see if someone was trained by men or by His Spirit.

There are only two distinctive groups in this life. The one group receives everything now, success, sex, popularity, power etc. etc. However, in the next life they are totally destroyed.

The other group find themselves humiliated almost daily, they appear as losers, seem to have no goal & no drive, is hated, ridiculed etc. etc. However, in the next life they are finding themselves in a constant bliss which cannot be described in words.

There is a reason for the above, but I dare not touch it in this discussion.

So no, what I present cannot be sold - it can only be longed for by a sincere soul longing for rewards outside of this life. There is a "pull" to all of this, hard to understand or describe.

The Author of His Book clearly stated " Few be there that find it..." So then, what DO His followers look like and what are their lives like? a Quick read through the Book of Acts will reveal all. Don't expect anything less and don't expect anything more.

Henni, no need to post any more 'evidence' to support your position. Your last post has confirmed all my suspicions. You, my friend, are special, being the only human on earth able to 'hover'. I salute you and your superhuman powers and hope that you use them for 'good'. Best of luck to you and Monica who I'm sure is ecstatic about the decision she made ten years ago.

Happy New Year.

chas

You are welcome my friend - your own military makes use of this to their own benefit. But then, HEY!!! area 51 does not exist, neither do UFO's. All these writings about nothing...

That's why I find it nearly impossible to debate intelligently with an atheist. They are the biggest pretenders on this planet. Narrow minded like no other group - and Chas, this is NOT a personal attack. It merely points out that the universe consists of far more than what you guys profess to believe. However, you are not even willing to investigate in anything beyond your personal current limited perceptions of things.

And if astral projection rattles your cage so much, how will you handle the things pertaining to His Gospel.

John 3:10-12
…10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?…

In any case, thank you for the little intelligent interaction that we had. As always I really enjoyed it.

All the best for 2020 for you & yours.

Yes Bill,

I TOTALLY agree. Hence my differentiation between religion and being born again as mentioned in my posts above. However, please tell me in your own words and personal experiences what is being said in the video & back up with examples from your own life, will you?

Let's discuss things in our own words also in between, shall we. Since you jumped on the wagon, I HAVE to believe that you are also an expert in the field of atheism with much to say personally on the subject.

Hard as it is for me, I'll try my best to debate without stating the Bible as my sole reference as you guys do not accept this as a basis for anything.

Next we touched on astral projection which has nothing to do with being born again. It is well documented, even by science, but alas you group esteem it in the same category as this discussion. You do not reason about it, counter any writings on it. All you do is mock it and end of story?

No my friend, this is NOT what intelligent debate is about. Let's tackle things point by point, debating each point before wildly chucking something in when we find ourselves in a corner.

And don't worry, as always there'll be a crowd of you against single me (there are not many in my camp that will openly side with me for fear of running against the main stream & for fear of loosing face), so you should not be afraid of discussing any point in great detail. For how can so many super intelligent highly esteemed individuals loose any debate against a single "fairy tale believing" nut.

Let's go back to astral projection which "does not exist". Please tell me upon what are all the writings as listed based? These are not "religious" folks, in fact FAR from it as the two camps do not mix too well at all.

Oh yes, if you do not care to address my questions, then please do not blame me for treating your concerns as raised in a similar fashion, because I will retaliate. This is a debate, not a place for wild statements only.

Also, back up what you say with examples out of your own life - if you do not live what you profess over here to believe, then you have no place in this debate.

All the best,

Henni

Gosh, I wonder why they thought that. In any case, if you did it once you should be able to do it again. This time, take videos (and post) or it didn't happen. I, along with the rest of the world, am anxiously looking forward to these videos. That's one way to shut us non-believers up. Ooooooooh, I'm over the moon with excitement and anticipation. Hurry.

chas

PS: BTW, this portion of this post (known as 'The Henni Diaries') will be available in hardback at your local bookstore. Look in the FICTION section.

Anybody who deals with Eckhart Tolle, Alan Watts and Zen knows that you are not your body, but one with everything and everyone else, so of course you can hover anywhere... That doesn't require being religious.

Chas,

I'll wait for some displayed intelligence before continuing this debate. It is not the first time I "reason" with atheist - I know the "full circle" like your camp like to refer to it.

Right now we are stuck on something as simple as astral projection of which I have personal experience to some degree. I fully intend to refer to many other things of similar nature which you claim do not exist. But NOT before we've sorted this one.

I am AMAZED at how quickly you ran out of valid arguments - you put the rest of your tribe to shame mate. The things you post now clearly indicate desperation...

Now I understand why you are so hellbent on impeaching your president - you could not care in the least for facts. You've made up your mind and you need no more evidence than that. It's called "The world according to Chas". I am only now beginning to grasp that most Demo_whatevers must surely be made up out of atheists as their current actions & reasoning display a striking resemblance to your current demonstrated reasoning faculties.

Just imagine the outcome of a country ruled by such a group!!!

Henni

Tx!

The objection does not stem from the religious, but from the atheists.

By the way, are you also a professed atheist?

Henni

Just show us the 'HOVER' videos, otherwise.........

chas

Oooooh, I get it, your body didn't hover, just your mind. I'm ol' school; if I wanted to see myself in action in the bedroom, I'd just install some mirrors on the ceiling, but your way IS less expensive. Anyhow, as much as I've enjoyed this interaction (it was NEVER a 'debate', a debate concedes valid points, something a 'true believer will NEVER DO), it's probably time to put it to bed. George Carlin has humorously made all my points much better than I ever could. Maybe you should take another look. Hover on, my brother.

chas

No, I am member and even part-time employee (musician) of the EKD, the Protestant Church of Germany. However, many members of our church don’t take the Bible word by word, but carefully interpret its basic messages. For my part, I am very critical of the Bible, but I support the fundamental values emphasized by Jesus.
As I am an intersexual woman I have particular problems with anyone who discriminates sexual minorities based on statements of the Bible; thankfully, some church organizations within the EKD are quite progressive in this respect and fully acknowledge the current state of scientific knowledge about biological variations of sex/gender, intersex and transsexualism included.

No Problem Chas,

I KNOW the atheists by now - your actions were expected. Been there before on more than one occasion. Only, normally it lasts a little longer with more intelligence behind it.

Sorry to say, you make for a poor atheist. You actually have nothing to put on the table to verify anything. Just an empty shell spewing out opinions like an automatic pancake machine.

Your president does not loose out on anything by not having your specific support as it is not worth anything.

I still like & respect you as a fellow Synthzone member though, but unfortunately no more future "debates" with you.

Hi Crossover,

I have no feud with you. Except for you relationship with your president. But such is politics & it is normal. At least one can reason with you. You are not narrow minded, so I am sure you have your reasons justifying your attitude towards your current government.

My issue is with those that just blindly make assumptions without investigating the facts. I'm not at all into politics. I am serious about my Master though and will use every opportunity I can laying the facts on the table & putting the records straight.

All the best,

Henni

Well that's a familiar tactic; when you can't win the debate, attack the debater. Very "Trumpian". I may be dumb but I do know the difference between 'loose' and 'lose'. BTW, are you still 'spreading the word' by blasting bad and UNWANTED so-called 'music' in people's neighborhoods with giant, trailer-mounted speakers. Get many converts? Anyhow, glad you're thousands of miles away from MY neighborhood. Interesting that you're such an ardent supporter of President Trump; I guess the two of you would be the perfect ones to sit down and discuss income disparity together. Have a nice day and remember, wisdom does not ALWAYS come with age.

chas

Henni, I believe Crossover's country is Germany, and if true, the presidential position is mostly ceremonial.

chas

That's correct

By the way, English is your native language, yet I communicate to you in your own language. Now you complain about one silly little mistake...

Kom ons kyk 'n bietjie hoe jy afrikaans praat met my - miskien maak jy geen foute nie en dan haal ek my hoed af vir jou. Kom dan sit ons sommer hierdie debat in my moedertaal voort. Vir iemand so slim soos jy behoort dit mos nie 'n probleem te wees nie want soos jy self se, wysheid kom nie noodwendig met ouderdom nie.

Wie weet, miskien kan ek myself nog beter uitdruk in my eie huis taal. Se jou wat, hoeveel tale is jy persoonlik vaardig?

Jammer om te se maat, maar ek vind in jou niks meer as net een groot sak vol wind nie. Lankal op die forum gesien jy ag jouself in 'n musikale klas van jou eie. Maar weet jy wat, hul se hoogmoed kom tot 'n val.

Nog nooit gedink ek is spesiaal of enigiets besonders nie. Gaan gerus voort met jou beledigings. Jy het geen idee wat ek al van die ateiste moes verduur nie. En jy is baie klein in vergelyking met die ander met wie ek vir amper 'n jaar lank openlik 'n debat gehad het. Ten minste het hul so nou en dan 'n bietjie insig op die onderwerp geplaas - ek vind absoluut GEEN insig of wysheid by jou wat hierdie onderwerp betref nie.

Soos ek se, jy is slegs 'n lee dop vol van jou eie opinies - daar is baie van jou wat op hierdie planeet rondloop en nie een van hulle maak enige indruk op my nie.

So van die os op die jas: hier kom vir jou 'n groot ding ou vriend. Ek is glad nie vir die Iranese bo die Amerikaners nie - maar hul is behoorlik deur jul geboelie hierdie laaste ruk.

'n Aanval teen hulle gaan nie so vlot verloop as wat almal meen nie. Merk my woorde... Die vorige aanval wat jul teen hul wou loods is op die laaste nippertjie gestop omdat jul agter gekom het hul het geweet daarvan en was heeltemal voorbereid vir julle. Jul F35s sou almal op 'n selfmoord sending gewees het as jul president dit nie betyds afgestel het nie.

This is just sad.


Russ

Hennie laat het alleen. Let it go. No one will ever win a debate like this, neither you nor anyone else on the opposite site. Do what the Lord said "shake the dust of your sandals and move on". Some will believe and some will not. It is a very personal decision what you believe and this personal decision needs to be respected by all. Let's make 2020 the best we can make it. There is already too much strive in the world. Making music is a good beginning and in many ways healing!

Gerry

New reports about a serial liar:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/fact-check-donald-trump-top-lies-of-2019-daniel-dale/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_content=2020-01-04T12%3A30%3A16&fbclid=IwAR3EkXZTMvTVPP9KQwiDKnst-0zNj98tRCdg81omXt72qPYXua8Sa4VD5Bc

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/21/donald-trump-lies-factcheckers

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-tr...gqiFf0QllpuXe9w

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...aims-over-days/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csytgg

Welcome, Crossover. Nice to see well reasoned content.
Please post often. I enjoy good articulation and respectful lines drawn in the sand in support of sincere beliefs.

All the best...


Russ

And here you welcome some more "sad" just when this topic was about to fade away without further ado!!!

Some more lies albeit a little inconvenient...

This even more so!

I LOVE a "food for thought" contest - let's "post often" shall we? The readers have spoken. This way we enlighten the rest who might not have taken notice before.

I think we are all done here. And Henni more than enough of the extremist right links and "Holier Than Thou" preaching from you. This totally derails a thread and is disrespectful to the original author of the thread. That's All Folks.