While I agree with most of it I have to disagree about Yamaha as I have always rated them as the bottom of the pile when it comes to styles, the main reason is that many of them use specially created voices (Megavoices etc.) to make them which makes them difficult to edit, they are also more song specific which soon becomes very boring and canned, the final problem is because they are designed as an entity, if you try and simplify them too much the style completely falls apart. (While the sounds and drums have come on in leaps and bounds the style makeup still doesn’t sound anything like a real band)
Korg have always been busy as their arrangers came from their professional arm (Hence the reason they were a pain to setup and use in the early days) rather than the home hobby market of all the rest, however if you leave the styles off it is one of the best arrangers out there to play in a live band due to the fact it sounds live, unfortunately their Workstations sound even better and are even more flexible so the Arrangers just stay primarily in the home hobby market.
Roland had some of the best styles and sounds in the G70 era (Nothing else could touch them) as they sounded exactly like a real band (Compared them many times) plus you could edit or simplify them and they still sounded real.
If you want simple styles you need the type that come with entertainment organs, as they are designed to allow the player great flexibility (They have 2 keyboards and pedals on the go) in playing without the style getting in the way or falling apart.

Bill

Hi Jamman,
thank you for bringing up the topic.my 2 cents worth. Have thoroughly enjoyed my Korg keyboards for the last 10 + years, but instead of actually playing music, I spent a lot of my time converting , tweaking styles to suit the music I wanted to play.
Came to the realisation most of the styles I use are my yammie conversions,
so might as well have the real thing and do some playing instead.

Everyone has their own needs, but now ,tend to think if a keyboard doesn’t have styles that are basically suitable and need much more than just a tweak or a few additional user styles ( my case I was trying to turn my Korg into a yammie , stylewise, haha) better off buying the one with the styles that suit.

I agree with you 100%.

That's the difference in people, as I do a minimum of tweaking and converting, but usually find styles in my Ketron, Korg, and Yamaha boards that work fine. I suppose this means I am not discerning enough or I play vanilla type songs that don't require me to go through hoops to perform. This leads me to other factors like sound, navigation, and build quality that I consider at least as important.

Not right or wrong, just different.

I think the fact that its very easy to eddit these styles...
And that its often just a matter of muting some tracks..
On Korg pa4x, its even possible to mute drumsounds ..

Its best to have busy styles on board..
As its much easier to mute something then create something new,..

And if a bass is to busy, just find one in another style or variation thats simpler..

In my book someone that says brand a’s styles are to busy, missed out on the chapter easy edits..


On both Genos aswell as pa4x, muting tracks is often thefirst thing i do(did) after choosing a style..

My favorite arranger keyboards.


I have found the favorite arranger keyboards I have owned or played are:

The Roland G70... in my opinion , absolutely the best arranger for what it does.
Key feel and range, sounds, styles , edits, insert effects, vocal harmonizer,
Sequencer, guitar mode, separate outs,6 fills, etc.

The Ketron SD7...styles and audio guitar, drums .. real sounds, nice speakers..

The Roland E-A7... Great styles, sounds include many SRX sounds, great drums,
editing, best media player, sampling, good speakers.. Lacks a sequencer (big disappointment),
user friendly operation.

The Roland BK9... nice key feel, chord sequencer, 16 track sequencer, some SuperNatural sounds.
Not as user friendly as the E-A7.


Each of the keyboards I listed have advantages over the others, but all around..
I listed them in my order as best.

The touch screens on the G70 and SD7 make them stand out.
The sampling and 6 pads, make the E-A7 stand out.
The chord sequencer, make the BK9 a stand out.

I have rated this list, including time I have spent with several Korgs and Yamahas.

We can of course always mute or edit or rewrite Acc tracks. It’s a given. The topic/ discussion here is style comparison and usefulness having simpler/ generic style pool in your arranger for singing arranger player/ and taking advantage of it (which will benefit arranger players) who needs to create quick backing tracks/finish songs in tight time line without major editing of the basic frame of the song ( of course signature intros/ solos, etc will be done later on that framework).

There will be always exceptions such as a player who always use edited/rewritten 10 styles for 80% of his arranger set ( which exclude Mp3/SMF or sequence play.

“Busy” here didn’t mean all ACC tracks are played. It means ACC
tracks/ bass and drum tracks fills are over complicated/over played with unnecessary licks / comps in between, complex drum fills that a normal drummer rarely uses for that style, etc.

Issue with a busy style and why muting tracks not always work
——————————————————————————————-
Most us will of course not use factory style without adjusting levels/ tones/ mute tracks to get the style that fit your playing.But if the factory style is busy / over played / has over complicated bass lines , muting will not work unless you rewrite the lines of that style.

See below example which is very common.

Most of the time you do need all 4 ( minimum 3) variations to be applicable to modern songs that are not just your verse and chorus. Your variation 1 with ACC1 open and ACC 2 muted may sound Ok but when you progress to variation 3 , that ACC 1 becomes unnaturally/ annoyingly super busy ( like a song style) ; ie as if they are playing short licks at the end of the measure) may become unacceptable to use that style.Muting will not work because you need that ongoing simple AC 1 to continue where you need both hands after triggering the chord ( meaning using joy stick or wheels for a expressive GTR/SAX/ Synth) solo while style is ongoing.

If the bass line gets unnaturally busier/ overplayed in Acc 3 or 4, the style will become unusable.

There will be work around and partial solutions such as using sequenced Pads or chord sequencer ( if your unit has it), but they always lacks simplicity/ defeats the purpose ( getting in the way of music making) and spontaneity/natural flow. Why not fix the main problem instead of creating partial solutions that may or may not work 50% depending on how busy/ overplayed the original style is.



Starting from PA3x , styles with 8/16 gets better but not quite there yet. Big chunk of the style pool still carry legacy/ PA80 flavor of ACC busy- ness.

Again, the issue here is only when you to use arranger styles in your live gig or when you create backing tracks. Having more /abundant generic styles are invaluable asset. Styles that are over played, busy, recognizable yet unusable in your face bass lines , complex fills and unorthodox or song specific related comping / stabs are liabilities ( just taking the space because your rarely or never use them).

The only way out/ solution for most players ( including some of us here) is to mute all ACC tracks , Use LH for bass ( if the bass track is busy), use piano or Ep for RH. ( basically using arranger as drum machine with 4 variations and fills), which is great ( but defeats the purpose of the style play arranger function ; mainly due to over orchestration that can not be selectively muted as in given example ).

Like I mentioned before, If Korg can tackle this issue ( by going back to drawing board and find out why more generic less busy styles works for Yamaha and they are in demand by users always asking for Yamaha styles to Korg conversions which is not the other way around in general ). Korg can get bigger western market ( since they already have great features as editing power/ better seq and other things that I mentioned). They have improved some what but they need total revision for Pre 3x style banks ( which carried over to 4x, 1000 & 700) with very few exceptions.

Hi,
It’s ok to mute tracks, I’ve even muted or deleted cv’s which definitely helps simplify in some instances, but still need to find the of type of style I want in the first place. Its the machine I’ve loved over the past 10 years, not the styles. It’s probably only because of the genre of music I play,
The Korg piano type ballads are a bit too full on for me, whereas the yammie ones , even though repetitive work well with a heap of the tunes I like to play. There’s at least 4 I couldn’t do without, whereas I wouldn’t miss any of the korg ones, except for an old Korg I series 4/4 ballad I dumbed down.

My ideal keyboard, a Korg with a heap of simpler yammie type styles. Haha

Good points!

I have to say with the last 5 years of Yamaha styles I'm ready for more than the "studio" sound..