We assume they're aimed at 'home players', you know, the same market that used to buy 'home' organs with auto-accompaniment. That meant financially comfortable ol' coots in the 50-70+ age range. These have now been replaced, allegedly, by the much cheaper and more capable arranger keyboards (sans the fancy and expensive furniture-quality enclosures). But here's the thing: Along with all the technical advancements came a level of complexity unheard of with the old auto-accomp organs, where all that was usually necessary was to hit a button that said 'waltz' or 'polka', etc. and start playing.

The reason I bring this up is the plethora of posts regarding how the operating system works and the complex steps needed to perform the simplest of operations (ask Donny about that ). Indeed, the board has become much less about 'what's the name of that chord' and much more about 'what's that button do'. Now we all know that as we age, our ability to master new technologies seems to diminish somewhat (at least that's the case with me). Simultaneously, as technology increases the complexity (and capability) of these systems, the ability to master all of the advanced features also diminishes. Personally, I think the sudden (and recent) interest in playing solo piano among arranger players may have to do with the suddenly re-discovered joy of just 'sitting down and playing' (without worrying about 'which style', registrations, playlists, OTS, MFD, multi-pads, split points, etc., etc.). Is this the time in our lives when we want things simpler, not harder? For some, maybe. For the record, none of this pertains to 'professionals', of whom most arranger players are NOT. Pro's tend to keep up with the tecnology on an on-going basis, as their livelihood depends on it and the arranger is considered more of a 'work tool' than just a source of personal enjoyment.

So, who IS the arranger REALLY marketed to; tech-savvy musicians or ol' coots with too much money?

chas

Chas exactly just look around that is why backing tracks are taking over and in that regard lets the musician just concentrate on just playing his instrument instead of worrying about all the features of an arranger kb, parts, styles, volume,settings,registrations, transpose, playlists, knobs,.....instead just push a play button on a device and you can enjoy using one instrument with two hands as if you were in a band which is the backing track, mp3, smf, good points Chas...it's too late for the target market it has been set the line is drawn and until the previous home organ generation is gone it will remain like this......and the manufacturers know this.
More choices = more $$$$ to be made,....

PS gotta run get beer and snacks ready..
Trump is gonna start the opening Day Daytona Race at 2:30 EST

I agree up to a point. I am the first to admit that I am not a techie,however,I enjoy setting up registrations that are more complex than pushing a non editable waltz button. I am not technically proficient because I am too stupid,but rather,mindful of the time necessary to get there. I learn the basics,prepare my registration,and do what I came to do-play. Others have other ideas,and that is fine.

As far as backing tracks are concerned,I do think that there are certain specific songs better served by them,but to use them as a lazy excuse for an instant tune,I think is just that. I think Donny said it best when he advocated using any and all tools at his disposal. If done judiciously,I agree.

Me! And I agree with Mel and disagree with DNJ, especially about the world switching to backing tracks, which is nothing more than Karaoke.

I have owned an arranger keyboard for more than 30 years, ever since they began to evolve from nothing more than a drum machine fired through an electric piano. Then came the bass, which could be programmed for various styles, mainly Latin and some of the more basic tempos.

As time progressed, arrangers became far more technical, and when that occurred, I clearly recall Lowrey Organs coming out with machines that every shopping mall in our area with someone playing a $70,000 monster in the hallway or open area, and people, including a good friend of mine, plopping down their life's saving to purchase one, which usually included a year of lessons. These things were huge, and incredibly heavy. I watched in horror as 5 big guys moved hers into her living room.

When the PSR-500 became available, the cost was $500 at most department stores, while the music stores were asking about $600. I took a test drive at the local K-Mart, and purchased one the same day - WOW. Then I sat down with the manual for the next two months and learned how to play it, plus how to use all the features. This was a big step up from the Mitsubishi I purchased years earlier, which took about a week to learn.

About the same time, I discovered the PSR-Tutorial forum, logged on, and there was about three categories for the user forum. There were a lot of PSR-500 users back then, and I was able to answer most of their technical questions and solve lots of problems. Joe Waters then classified me as "Professor" for which I was grateful, but think he was a bit over optimistic about my skills.

Each and every time I upgraded to the next level of arranger I repeated the learning process, sitting down with the manual and learning as much as possible about the operating system and features of the new board. However, with each new board, I had to add a couple weeks to the learning process. Yes, while some folks claim that the changes by Yamaha were tiny, they really didn't dig into the technical aspects of those changes and what they were capable of doing.

Now, the home player, in many instances, is often a person that will take the time to learn all these things, and over time, they utilize them to enhance their performances for their own pleasure. A classic example of this is my friend in Argentina, Walter, who I introduced to you with some of his incredible creations. He is a home player, but through his investigation of the inner workings of his keyboard, he has accomplished more than any pro player I know.

Well, there are not many Walters out there, but enough of them to keep the manufacturers happy. In addition to the Walters of the world, there are lots of Me to go around. Not only did I take the time to learn the technical aspects and features of the keyboard, I also made a good living with it, enough to support my family, create a retirement program, buy a home and a beautiful, sailing yacht. And, in doing this, I did not use a bunch of prerecorded midi files/backing tracks and sing along to them. I played the keyboard, using both hands, and my audiences, by and large, knew this was the case. Since my forced retirement, I still sit down at the keyboard and play on a daily basis, mainly because I love music and there's not a night that goes by that a song is not playing in my mind when I finally go to bed. And, while I can no longer sing since the stroke, I'm still singing in my mind with my best singing voice and right on key.

Worldwide, arranger keyboards are very, very popular, though not so in the US, which only constitutes a small fraction of the overall market. In the US, there are just too many lazy people that want instant gratification, want to push a single button, and pop music out of their speakers and sing along as if they had created it on their own, which is rarely the case. I personally know at least 5 ladies and two guys that perform at nursing homes that just bring a boom box and sing along to backing tracks they purchased - they didn't have a hand in creating any of those tracks. One, a Sinatra Imitator, had an account at Hit Tracks for a decade. He said he thinks he purchased damned near every Sinatra song ever made by them.

So, while Donny continues to claim, for more than a decade now, that backing tracks will put arranger keyboard manufacturers out of business, he continues to change keyboards faster than some folks change their underwear. I lost count many years ago. The market, I believe, is aimed at folks that are financially sound, mostly in their 50s and older, and primarily home players. But, I sincerely believe there is a secondary market, which is aimed at pro-players mainly who reside outside the US, such as western Europe, Latin America, Mexico, and many of the Pacific nations.

Gary (I could be wrong, though)

In my case the arranger allows me to play my jobs and not have to worry about the mood of another band member or singer that wants to change the key to an impossable key for the horn man,
or 1000 other reasons I am a pro,and have made my living playing
for many years and after playing with every body and nobody, I
choose nobody. I always show up on time, wear the right clothes,
can play in any key and never get an argument about it. That is nice after all the decades I have done it the other way

MEL

I beg your pardon (ha, ha) I was into and purchased many Organs when I was 20's - 40's. They were terrific! Many of the Organ players in Japan are young as well.
I think you are correct...the target for arrangers is folks that had Organs a while ago. Probably older folks now as Organs went away in the US in the 90's. Also, Pro's gigging out and a few young people too(wish there were more)....I used to have Wurlitzer, Thomas and lastly Yamaha. They were all great...but my favorite was the Thomas for style etc(had a real Leslie inside) and Yamaha for the sounds. Today you can get a Yamaha Organ in Japan (about $8,500 +...maybe some other places) but not here. It's a pretty cool instrument.
It IMHO is really an arranger with lower manual, and pedals. Of course you can do that setup nicely with and arranger too. Most folks are content to just skip the pedals, and use split for the 2 manuals instead.

I still like the lower manual, lots of room for chords AND use it also to play RH stuff on the lower (and can do bridging) pedals would also be nice, but not required as we have great bass in the styles already that we used to have to play with pedals.

To me it's still ONE MAN BAND...if you are a PRO and good singer...a stage piano, and or audio backing tracks works well (I see a lot of that here in my 55+ community, 10,000 people here and 25 miles from the Villages with 140,000)

I do wander what will become of arrangers when most of us old geezers go to a better place??

Same as home organs, they will become a niche market, and this will probably occur in this decade.

Bill

A lot of users who used to use arrangers have either gone back to organs, (You can pick up a decent used one for next door to nothing) or added a 2nd keyboard to increase flexibility.
While arranger bass is good, it still becomes boring and monotonous as it doesn’t have any feel, unlike if you play the pedals yourself.
You can import one the latest Yamaha organs via Taro Trade in Japan if you want to go back to a Yamaha organ.

Bill

...sigh

I'm not a musician. I'm a technician who loves music, and I love arrangers! I can't really do anything musically with any other type of keyboard. Ok, maybe a chord organ or autoharp. IMO an arranger is the last fully "live" step on a spectrum of musical accompaniment. Next in line would be a Karaoke / MIDI player, and beyond that you're just playing back recorded music.

The automatic features of the arranger supplement my lack of skill and reflexes, allowing me to provide a complete-sounding and fully interactive live accompaniment in a fun and easy way. I think the average person can produce acceptable results once they understand how the machine works. Compared to piano, violin, etc., it doesn't require years of theory or an extraordinary technique, although arrangers can sound better in the hands who DO have technique.

I also believe much of the secret to making music accessible to beginners lies in simplifying the score. Hal Leonard big-note, key-of-C, basic chord types. [More advanced chords can be shown parenthetically and added as playing skill and familiarity increase.] Or even moving away from the grand staff to some type of "Guitar Hero" notation on an animated video display in a way not possible in Mozart's, or even Eugene Ormandy's time.

As a kid in the 1970s I remember seeing organs demonstrated in malls, department stores, etc. They were fascinating! But part of the hook was the DEMONSTRATION. Hearing the music and seeing one little old lady making it all happen. Today some arrangers are stocked in music stores. Unfortunately most of the salespeople don't have a clue about them. If they play keys at all, it's two handed piano so they only showcase their own skill, in a way that was possible on pretty much any keyboard made in the last 400 years.

Kids get "keyboards" for Christmas. Most have auto-accompaniment and some (like the CT-X3000) are fairly complete arrangers. Future arranger players in the making! But do parents sit down and explain the features to their children? Do they even understand it themselves?

Roland arrangers, especially the E-50, E-80 generation were a great product that died due to a lack of marketing. Couldn't find them in stores. No public access to, or communication with product development. Perhaps all arrangers are struggling in the U.S. for the same reasons. IMO, the traditional retail model is pretty much dead. Maybe the decision to let Tesla sell directly to the public will turn out to be its last coffin nail. For these technically complex products, I would like to see "demo centers" or even "demo days" at trade shows, in the lobby at concert venues, at music festivals on breaks between sets, state fair, etc. A factory rep needs to SHOW what the product can do, and how easy it is to get started. Let the customer get "hands-on," note how he wants to use the product, and take that info back to the development team. The purchase could be direct from the manufacturer with a 30-day in home trial and a 15% restock fee.

One more thought... In many ways musical instruments offer a great alternative to video games. Interactive, develop hand-eye-ear coordination, some degree of instant gratification, etc. We had Guitar Hero, now how about "Chord Hero!?" How can the manufacturers target that young-ish demographic and compete on equal footing? C'mon people! Let's make Arrangers great again!! ;-p

And now let's get back to our regularly scheduled topic that Chas originally posted shall we target audience...?
before this goes really south..

I'm with Mel. I am the target.

Eddie

Ted, I think your opening 2 sentences shed a lot of light on the targeted market for arranger keyboards. I have two grandsons aged 13 and 15 (I think). The oldest takes piano lessons and the younger is into a variety of instruments. He has a low-end arranger keyboard (more like a synth with some basic arranger features), a tenor sax (lessons 2xweek), trumpet (plays in both the school orchestra and the jazz band), and guitar (his favorite - this week anyway, which he plays in a school rock band ). NEITHER of them seem to have ANY interest in, nor have I ever heard them use, the arranger features of the keyboard. Not even the drum rhythms (oh, did I mention, he also has a inexpensive electronic drum kit). For whatever reason (and I suspect Donny is right) the young folks just don't seem to be turned on by arrangers. To a degree, I think the manufacturers recognize this as well, which is why they can charge as much as $5k for a TOTL arranger KB, knowing full well that an 'under-funded' teen or young adult isn't going to buy one anyway .

As you may know, I am against giving kids auto-accompaniment keyboards as 'starter' instruments and see no value in deliberately cultivating "future arranger players". I feel that it dis-incentivises kids from properly learning to play what most of us consider 'legitimate' instruments. If a kid learns to drive with an automatic (admittedly not a good example), he is not inclined to learn to drive a 'stick' later on.....and he may never have to (hence the bad example), but in the world of music, 'real' instruments far outnumber arranger keyboards and real sheet music gives far more information than a sheet out of a 'fake book'.

I agree with you on a lot of your points but judging by my grandkids and their friends, I don't think music is going to upstage video games, not anytime soon anyway. How many kids do you know that will voluntarily spend up to 6+ hours a day on their 'musical instruments'. Video games, up to 24hrs with short snack and bathroom breaks .

I would like to know from some of our non-American members from some of the more arranger-friendly countries, how their youth feel about arrangers (vs. synths/workstations/acoustic traditional instruments).

chas

Hi Chas,
both I think really.
The tech savvy musicians have to keep abreast of the changing technology,
us ol’ coots with too much money , probably don’t have all that much trouble adapting to the new technology every couple of years or so, because we tend to keep changing our keyboards when something new hits the market and changes are usually incremental.

I’ve ended up back to where I was 20/30 years ago.
Piano was my first love. ( not that I was much good at it). I really only bought an arranger in the hope of being able to do some backing tracks.( Midi files in those days were something like $30 ea. and limited in content and availability) I wanted try and fill out my piano playing ie have a fuller sound.
Never really managed to make it happen. I was a total reader, couldn’t work out what to play unless it was in front of me, so never really worked out how to combine the two. Unfortunately my pianos had to be sold and keyboard technology became my passion for next 20 years.

Few months back I became interested in piano again after a post from Uncle Dave. Really only bought my little P121 piano as a controller for my sx900 , and also figured it might be a great way to build up finger strength again ( hadn’t touch a keyboard in over a year after my accident) .
Then up popped one of Donny’s u tube clips from a company called Pianote. The young lady doing the demo was bubbly and quite interesting .Thought I’d give the exercise a go.
Ended up signing up for a 6 months course, learning a heap of stuff, no longer 100% reliant on having to read a piece of music, note for note, teaching me to think for myself. My playing is still very basic , but I’m having more fun playing my crummy little $600 piano than I ever had playing my last 3 Korg keyboards.
Next step , how to do those arranger backing tracks that I wanted to do all those years ago as an accompaniment for my piano ( non ) skills. Haha. Left hand arpeggio chord songs didn’t quite lend themselves to split arranger mode playing.

P.s I have Uncle Dave and Donny to thank for my new musical path.

Rikki, don't praise either of those two guys; they can't handle it . Just kidding, every once in a while they hit the mark .

A very nice, well thought out post, as usual. I think your story may be more common than you might think. I also think you're probably right about the manufacturer's targeted market. However I still don't think they are even trying to reign in the youth market. A clue is their virtual absence in the big box showrooms (Musician's Friend, etc.) and the lack of sales training and customer seminars. I still think that if Europe, Asia, and South American markets didn't prop up sales, Arrangers would die a slow death (as some here have predicted).

chas

You are correct Chas.

There are those moments while sitting at an arranger keyboard, trying to get the perfect sound and style, tweaking, this, tweaking that, when I think back to the organ days of just sitting and playing. I now, on occasion, take a break from the buttons, and just play the arranger using full keyboard mode.

To answer your question, I do think, number one, Arrangers are more marketed to "Q-Tip" Home Players. with one man band Pro's a close second, and not far behind them is the beginner /average player looking to learn and enhance playing keyboard music. Therefore all that, makes an Arranger a near perfect, all around, one fits all, keyboard.

Hi Chas,
Inclined to think probably the same over here, though haven’t had the luxury of browsing a music store for many years.

Even back in the 90’s when I actually worked part time in one of the biggest so called pro music stores, we mainly sold band and studio equipment , not an arranger in sight until the korg i3 came along.
I don’t think too many stores actually kept arranger keyboards on the showroom floor let alone in stock. One exception was the Technics dealer.

For the younger generation there’s probably better ways of recording music than via an arranger keyboard, depending on the type of music they’re into , of course.
They’re trying to include styles that might appeal to the younger generation, but makes one wonder if they’re actually succeeding.
Meanwhile some of us oldies are possibly getting peeved that we are not getting just say, more ballads, country, swing/jazz, Latin type styles,
styles that we used to get in abundance.