You guys in the Us have a Blue one this time.
I found his speech very good and inspiring indeed, and if he can get the congreess to do the same as he said then there is great things ahead.
I am glad to also see that the old curse of the presidents that are elected in the year ending in 0 has been broken, as per George W. Bush in 2000. About 7 presidents I think lost their lives who were elected in years ending in 0.




Allan

Hi everyone. I got no side whatsoever here or pretty much anywhere anymore. Everything's got so much out of the hand that it would be pretty hard for me to look in the mirror if I supported either side. It's basically replacing one racist idiot with the other. Little bit different style the same bs.
I will give some credit to
Tramp. He didn't create more wars around the world. Well, except a civil war here. But, you had that coming for a while now. And that's what it basically was. Choosing a civil war here or let's continue ravaging Middle East or wherever it's going to go this time. And you choose second one. Of course. As long as we can still believe qe are the good guys, the moral compass in this world.
And please don't get me wrong, I wouldn't let Tramp be a president of this BAR forum. And the fact that he even won in the first place shows what kind of people live here , or how bad are politicians in this country. And how crooked are the news outlets, or how stupid and manipulative people actually are for ever tuning to that news channel .
But, scratch all this. I will say it in just one sentence.
Replacing one shit with the other doesn't make it better. It's still shit.
Well, that's two sentences.

Cheers to everyone and I hope everyone is healthy and well it these BS times.

With all due respect, and you're entitled to an opinion, but Joe Biden is not a racist. The disparaging words you used, most United States voters may not appreciate this type of rhetoric, especially from someone that is not a part of our Democracy. Most of us want to move on from this type of talk, and hopefully someday, our Country becomes more "settled", and we stop the vitriol that has been present for far too long. And maybe, just maybe, the rest of the World will follow, and the "World Will Be a Better Place For You and Me"

Larry, I hope so too.

I don't see the President-Elect as being racist. Anything but. To make that sort of exterme statement means you must have info we don't so please enlighten us.

I don't think his chosen VP Kamala Harris who is of Jamaican/Indian heritage is either.

This side of the water , we have only heard that he is the opposite to out going guy.

Where Trump is anti Iran and pro Israel - Biden is pro Iran and anti Israel, in a political sense that is. No mention of racism, just that Kamala Harris is very left of the middle in her ideas in politics ( green and pro-abortion), and definitely not racist in views.




Allan

He is not in office at the moment, and campaign promises very seldom materialise in office, (This applies to any country) so we won’t know what type of president he is until 2-4 years from now.

Bill

Dunno about that we knew what the last one was about within weeks.

Nigel, we knew about the outgoing one 35-40 years before he decided to run.

That, above all, is what totally exasperated me.

Let's all wish Biden and Harris all the best. And if we are not involved, we have no business criticizing.


Be well, all.


Russ

Yes Ruaa, wish them the best, as we should all new presidents.

Here to hoping that we see more civility, no just from the president but the nation as a whole.

Paul, that is an admirable show of the compassion that makes life worth living. It is particularly significant to me, because I'm sure you have personally been in situations where equality and compassion were in short supply.

I'm going to be behind Biden and Harris. I am in the income group that will pay lots of additional taxes. That is my fair share, and I am in this position because of the opportunities available to U.S. Citizens.

Let's be KIND to each other, everyone.

In appreciation,


Russ

Let‘s hope there will not be „a smooth transition to the second Trump term“, as Pompeo stated yesterday, unbelievably. I think it‘s unique in a democratic country that a government slaps the majority of voters in the face like that. And Fox News seems to have adopted the fraud claim completely again, after first showing signs of distancing itself from the regime. Let‘s hope the US will show its democratic fundament is stronger than those who mock it.

Not unusual at all, the EU has been trying to slap the UK voters in the face for the last 4 years. (Although no doubt there will some excuse to support the EU masters)

Bill

Absurd comparison

Not the worst excuse I’ve heard.

Bill

Excuse?
Who has to excuse for what?
Your comparison is so absurd. Has the EU acted as if the UK population didn‘t opt for Brexit? Has it played UK government? Where‘s the parallel between Brexit and the way Trump is acting now?
BTW, it‘s funny you blame the EU for the UK maneuvering itself into multiple dilemmas by wanting to leave the EU while intending to leave the border to EU member Ireland open. It‘s not the EU‘s problem. But again: no relation to the Trump topic.

Trump recount: Will it be like the Bush vs. Gore recount, which lasted 37 days?

It took Gore 37 days before he conceeded, so Trump is not doing anything someone else hasn't already done before him.

Unfortunately, it is the way he does things that gets up peoples noses, not that he doesn't have the right to. In this case, to contest the handling of the votes from the people. Even though the popular vote went overwhelmingly to Biden.

Like it or not that is the political system in the US, other countries have their own circus, called voting, like here in OZ.


Allan

You think Gore did the same Trump is doing now?
There was a difference of 537 votes between Bush and Gore in Florida in 2000, AND it was the one decisive swing state.
Now there is a difference of 45,000+ votes in PA alone, and it wouldn’t even be sufficient for Trump if that massive difference changed.
There were OSZE election observers - they found no indications for irregularities!
Trump intends to damage the system.

" Even though the popular vote went overwhelmingly to Biden."

When there is a question as to the legality of those votes there is a question as to whether Biden did get the overwhelmingly popular vote or is this just one more part of the overall lie?

For four years the liberals screamed 'No to Trump" IS it time for the never Bidens to come out of the woodwork?

Trump‘s election fraud show was staged in 2016, too.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv...r-fraud/617069/

we knew about the IN-coming one 47 years before he decided to run again.

That, above all, is what totally exasperated me...........again

Joe Biden’s political Career by year:
1973 Biden enters politics
1974
1975
1976
1977 Biden fights to keep schools segregated because “allowing blacks to integrate would create a racial jungle”
1978
1979
1980
1981
1982
1983 Biden taxes SS
1984
1985
1986
1987
1988 Ran for president but had to end it after getting busted for plagiarism
1989
1990 C’mon man, almost there
1991
1992
1993 Biden taxes SS again
1994 Biden writes the stop and frisk law which is what African Americans blame for systemic racism today
1995
1996
1997 Almost, not yet because y’know the thing
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008 Calls Obama the first articulate and clean mainstream African American
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
2019
2020 and now he’s ready to “FIX” the Country.


This all proves that no one is perfect but that America will give people a fair go, even if they have stuffed up before. Maybe making the best of an average situation, using what the political parties give you. It is not the peoples fault what they are given, but maybe it's the parties that need to pull up their socks and do better.



Allan

Now I want to see your Trump’s political and Business Career by year:
I think you will be able to add a lot more than one line per year.

Hey Nigel, Not sure even I can do that in 5 minutes lol, but I will give it a go at Pres D. J. Trumps Pros and Cons ( to be totally fair and honest both ways) I never said he was perfect nor a true made to measure political god - far from it). This is to show he has a bad side and a good side to this ego driven business orientated man, but he will never be a political statesman, even to his supporters.

Pros:-
1.Trumps approval rating has not changed much over his term in office starting at 45.5% and ending at 44.6% - even with his tweets!!
2.He’s appointed 53 judges on the 13 US circuit courts. To put this into perspective, former President Barack Obama appointed 55 circuit judges in his two terms in the White House. The courts get the final say in US politics, setting precedents that can shape the country for years to come; because of the sheer number of conservative federal judges he’s installed.
3.In signing a $US738 billion defence spending bill just a few days before Christmas, Trump officially established the sixth branch of the US Armed Forces – the Space Force.
The Space Force is the first new military service since the US Air Force was created in 1947.
Despite its name, the new branch has not been established to protect the planet from extraterrestrial threats, but is tasked with protecting the US military’s assets in space.
4. Three years into his presidency, Trump’s signature legislative achievement remains a Republican tax bill that made sweeping changes to the tax code – the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
5. It permanently slashed the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% while also providing temporary benefits for individuals and their families. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, among others, said the law would juice the nation’s gross domestic product to 3% (or more, as Trump said 6%) and soon pay for itself and spread prosperity.
6. Trump signed the First Step Act into law in December 2018, marking the first legislative victory in years for advocates seeking to reform the criminal justice system.
The bill passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress. It offers relatively modest changes to the federal prison system, but was praised as an important step forward by groups and activists seeking to end mass incarceration.
7. The terrorist group’s territorial holdings were the basis for its so-called caliphate, and provided it will a major base of operations to conduct attacks across the world. After a five-year effort led by the US, ISIS’s caliphate was finally defeated in March 2019. In late October, a US raid led to the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
8. Trump’s decision to unilaterally withdraw the US from the 2015 nuclear deal in May 2018. This has been taken both ways as a positive and a negative.
9. Of former President Barack Obama’s signature healthcare law; Trump has had success in dismantling parts of the law. His tax bill included a rollback of the tax penalty for those who did not enroll in healthcare, and the Trump administration has had some success in the courts regarding the individual mandate. See#6 in Cons.

10.Pardons - Trump has issued 28 pardons as of August 28, 2020:




Cons:-
1.His disapproval rating however gone from 41.3% to 52.3%
2.His handling of the 237,000 deaths due to the “ China Virus” will go down in history as HIS fault and no one elses, not Dr Anthony Fauci or anyone else who advised him.
3.Trump has at times falsely claimed that ISIS is totally defeated, embellishing the extent of the US military’s success against the terrorist organisation during his presidency. Though the terrorist group has lost its territory – its so-called caliphate – it’s still estimated to have up to 18,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria.
4.Trump’s response to a deadly neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, remains one of the most controversial moments in his presidency.
It was emblematic of Trump’s struggle to bring the country together after tragedies, and more generally. His response also typified his controversial record on race relations and white supremacy.
Trump blamed “many sides” for the violence at the rally, which resulted in the death of a counterprotester, Heather Heyer. He later said there were “very fine people on both sides.”
5. In the wake of the brutal death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police and the nationwide protests that followed, Trump also failed to rise to the occasion.
6. The president said he would introduce a “phenomenal healthcare plan,” during an interview with ABC News in June. But has not done in his first three years is offer a replacement for the Affordable Care Act.
7. Trump was impeached in the House of Representatives on December 18, 2019. The president was acquitted in a Senate trial, but will still go down as just the third president in US history to be impeached. GOP Sen. Mitt Romney of Utah also made history by voting to convict Trump, marking the first time ever that a senator voted to convict a president from his or her own party.


** I could also put in that he is pro life and is against the 3,000,000 babies being aborted per year in the US alone. But he didn't put in the law to condone it nor change the law. It has been left up to the states to do that, and some (NY) have extended it to post 24 weeks. This is a contentious subject for many even today, and I am not puting it on on side or the other. Just noting it as the rate of abortions is higher than that of the Covid Virus ever will be in even 10 years.



Allan

The pros and cons you present are of course very subjective. Some of the pros can also be regarded as cons (as you state in some cases), and you could pick many further aspects not mentioned in the list.
To me, Con #4 weighs so heavy it destroys all of the pros.
Even if the Bible says „You shall be jugded by your actions, not by your words“ or similar, for a President the words are actions, given his strong influence as a role model.
Trump has shown that he does not clearly stand behind the equal value of every human irrespective of ethnicity, gender and other innate characteristics. Lately, he has also shown more clearly how valuable he holds the democratic system. This is so fundamental that I wouldn‘t know any US President who has ever been such a threat to fundamental values and ethics.

It‘s incredible, apparently Trump does not even shy away from trying to make electorates vote differently than the popular vote. Even Fox News reports this. This man is a danger to democracy.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-f...l-future-report

EDIT: Oh, forget about Fox News - too far „left“ now. Newsmax seems to be the latest rage...

Allen, I'd like to see a list of the good things (pro's) about Biden.

My list of the awful personal characteristics and past business debacles of Trump, as detailed by Gary Trudeau in Doonesbury cartoon strips over 30 years is a lot longer than what would fit on one screen here.

My list of Pro's for Biden reflect many indications of compassion and decency; characteristics I cannot find in anything about Trump and his past.

Looks like I'm disagreeing. Not so. I appreciate your incite/opinions.

That's what I appreciate about "The Bar".

Russ (Burp) Lay

Honestly Russ, you are able to put up enough pros for your hero, and more than I know; anyway here are some ....

1. Joe’s father struggled to find a steady job after a series of business setbacks, so there was a lack of money ( or he didn’t come with a pocket full of money). I think his father got a job as a use car saleman.
2. He stuttered as a child a confidence kick in the guts. Got picked on ( who hasn't been?).
3. When he first met Neilia’s mother, (future mother –in- law), she asked what he wanted to do for a living. Biden informed her he intended to become president of the United States.
4. In 1972, at 29, he defeated incumbent Republican Senator Cale Boggs, becoming the fifth-youngest person ever elected to the U.S. Senate.
5. In November, Biden, now 77, would be the oldest president ever inaugurated.
6. In 1974, he told a reporter that “when it comes to issues like abortion ... I’m about as liberal as your grandmother. I don’t like the [Roe v. Wade] decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body.” In 1981, he voted for a constitutional amendment that would let states overturn Roe v. Wade. He has since reversed his position....... Not so good in my book ( opinion).
7. In the 1970s, Biden opposed court-ordered school busing as a method of desegregating public schools. He has said that he favored other methods of desegregation, such as in housing, and that he supported voluntary busing.
8. As the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1984, he led efforts to block then-Alabama U.S. Attorney Jeff Sessions from a federal judgeship over racism allegations. Sessions denied the accusations.
9. In February 1988, after complaining about headaches for several weeks, Biden underwent surgery for a brain aneurysm. Three months later, he had surgery for a second brain aneurysm.


I do believe in showing both sides of the story, but there are parts that never come to light ( both good and bad). Anyway, all eyes are on USA for many reasons. We who live in OZ look up to you guys for lots of achievments but are wondering what is going on with the imploding of "the state of the Union". Especially over the last 4 plus years. All we have heard is the cry for blood from the Democractic party and nothing of value being put up or past for the people. If Trump term is over then they should just ignore him, as that would do the most damage to his ego, in my opinion.



Allan

So what? I have had a ruptured brain aneurysm and I am still fully functioning. And it doesn't sound like his even ruptured.

I see you really do believe your EU Masters even though they have blatantly gone against the withdrawal agreement (Cooperation for a smooth transition) at every stage.

The Northern/Southern Ireland border was sorted years ago, (To make sure it did not disrupt the Good Friday Agreement) however due to the pig headedness of the EU (Who still want complete control over our laws, money and fish etc.) it is they who are the problem. (Jan 1st the UK & Northern Ireland become sovereign) as they just cannot grasp what sovereign means. (There were even rumours that they were going to put a border between the UK and Northern Ireland in contravention of the Good Friday agreement)

Have a look round Europe and you will find plenty of anti EU political party’s growing in size and support, and while not up to the UK level yet the EU had better watch out as otherwise the UK will not be the last one leaving.

Bill

Yes, in Germany it is the AFD, the far right party, who want to leave the EU. Is this the type of Germans you like best?
How was the Ireland border issue „sorted“ years ago? Please explain, otherwise I sort it as fake news. How can a border remain open and at the same time prevent uncontrolled exchange of goods? It‘s very complicated and not the EU‘s fault.

I don‘t believe „EU masters“ (and I don‘t accept and defend everything the EU does and says, the EURO remains a problem, economic realities were not sufficiently taken into account when it was introduced).
I get my information from various news sources. Such as this about the complex Irish border issue. It just doesn‘t appear to have been sorted out years ago, as you say.
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53724381

Regarding your ever returning expression „EU masters“, I think there are problems in the architecture of the EU, but you should also consider that everything is based on contracts signed by democratic countries. (Unfortunately, Poland and Hungary show more and more undemocratic tendencies, which must not be tolerated within the EU.)

Nigel, Aussies are tough nuts for sure ( maybe it's the thick skull) lol. But looks like he is still suffering with his memory.

Anyway, I have two Cavernomas 1 x 10mm and 2 x 2mm that sometimes bleed. I have suffered from Migraine Disorder for 19 years and when they bleed it causes issues. They can remove them but I will end up with more Migraine issues and epileptic fits because of where they are. Anything to do with the brain causes hugh issues re: moods and memory and attitude, unless you have a great surgeon.

I just put it in as it may have been something that he has been carrying since his ops. Maybe it hasn't affected him at all and his memory is something else.



Allan

Crossover, sorry but every one knows that the New York Times are pro Democrates as are NBC and other News outlets.

The Democrates (around 48%) have been saying that there has been fraud in the way the voting has been done in the pass but now they say it is all ok.

Here is too things that "does not prove anything" but are focusing on what legally Trump is doing; and how it is shacking up............ at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDCsAjtDfX4

So who is in whos' pocket? Makes you think ........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl3H-rSaFlU

Things happen back with Al Gore, also with Kennedy etc etc contesting the vote has happened many times, and it is the US system that allows it. With Kennedy, it appeared that even the one in the local cemetery all voted ( not sure which one) for Kennedy agaist Nixon. So, it is not a fool prove system of voting and/ or a straight forward one.

We will just have to wait and see what happens, so pull up your chairs and get your drinks and pop corn; please someone write a good song about alll this......please!!! It will go down in history and will lighten up this dull and horrible year, if the song gets to No.1 on the charts.

I can't be bothered with conspiracy theories that only dickheads would believe.

Allan what sort of BS are you listening to? This is Trump crap you are spouting out. Now he says even Fox are against him.

The reason they are all saying the Democrats won ..... is because they WON. Do you get it now? It is not Pro Democrat it is Pro Reality.

Youtube is a disaster in terms of information bubbles and breeding of misinformation. Everyone can present his conspiracy theories, I don‘t know what this is still going to be leading to.
Total bullshit is presented in German videos about masks, Bill Gates and vaccines, people get more and more fanatic about their constructed theories.
Experts who studied and have a doctorate in medicine and epidemiology are laughed at by laymen who think to know it better, theories are believed irrespective of their likelihood etc etc.

When you take away the politics, what you have left is a horrible little man who is an embarrassment to himself and everybody he has ever done business with.

I've been following his business exploits for over 30 years. He's a national disaster.

R.