all who enjoy seeing super-talented, Juliard-trained musicians playing great sophisticated music together. I know Jazz isn't everybody's thing on this forum but if you're truly a musician, you have to appreciate the skill necessary to play this music. I singled out Russ (upright bass), Diki (trombone), and Paul (keyboards and student of jazz) in the post title because of the great performances on those particular instruments. Like I said, you may not be a 'jazzer' like some of us, but if you like Snarky Puppy' and the like, you'll probably like these guys as well (or at least appreciate what they're doing).

Yeah, yeah, I know it' an Arranger forum, but in the end it's still about MUSIC. Besides, a little variety never hurt (ask any married man ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3vTmbIZdU&ab_channel=NPRMusic

chas

(Ask any recently divorced man!) 😂

I honestly think that it is MORE important than most that arranger players listen to sophisticated music, and good tight real players as much as they can.

Most of us play singles, either gigging or at home. As such, we get no feedback from bandmates on the stand as to whether we are up to snuff or not. The drummer never glares at us for dragging, or swamping him, the guitarist never gives us a sideways look when we play a horrible solo, the horns don’t raise their eyebrows when we get the chords wrong..!

The only way to push yourself as a solo performer is to raise the bar on what you listen to, to never become complacent about your playing, to never settle for ‘good enough’. Good enough isn’t ’great’!

And especially when playing imitatively, the better the musicians you listen to like horn players, guitars etc., the more you are going to push yourself to approach their level of playing, and to learn the idiosyncrasies of their instrument and style.

You can get a lot of useful feedback from your bandmates, but an arranger just sits there silent, never criticizing, never praising, never pushing you. You only get that listening to the real thing.

These guys are the real thing… 🎹😎

Thank you Chase, ,What’s an enjoyable way to start the day! That’s a fantastic band with a special chemistry for sure. The bass player, Endea Owens is a joy to both watch and listen to.

And to piggyback on what Diki said, I hope everyone here has had a chance to play in somea sort of ensemble. It doesn’t matter if it’s a marching band, rock band or community orchestra , there’s nothing like playing with other musicians. It will hopefully inspire you to bring your best to the table.

Never forget…. Turn off all the auto stuff, you still already own a keyboard more than capable of working well with any live band, in truth, better than most workstations. Arrangers are designed from the ground up for live performance, workstations tend to be at their best in a studio, or where you can prepare everything in advance.

Find a band that has no keyboard player that will let you and your arranger sit in, form a hobby group with some friends to jam at your home, do whatever it takes to get away from the solitude of arranger playing, your musicianship will improve by leaps and bounds…

And never, never, NEVER turn on any of the auto stuff while you play with real people!

Ever. 😂🎹😎

The ultimate, to me is the unspoken interaction between musicians of similar ability and convictions.

I don't particularly enjoy singing, even though I do a lot of it on commercial music.

Most of that comes from needing to pay college tuition for me, momma and the kids.

This is the kind of stuff that will never generate the big checks, but makes me so happy and fulfilled to do it.

Sadly, most players who reach this level of accomplishment play themselves out of a job.At the 10 year mark, they realize that jazz purists don't drink that much (meaning they don't spend a lot of money) and you can either play what you want for little or no compensation, or play what you hate, get paid more, but hate it!


I listened to this with a mixture of pure joy and considerable sadness.

Incidentally, I just got a clear Covid test and am heading for a 30 hour session for a film about engine oil (UGH).

Oh well, got those two new great grandchildren to put through school.

And that makes it all OK!

Thanks Chas!


R.

Quote from Diki " And never, never, NEVER turn on any of the auto stuff while you play with real people!" end of quote

Three "nevers" is too much of an absolute IMO. but generally valid for optimum group playing.

I played and directed a fifteen piece volunteer senior band from 2004 to 2019. Natural attrition and other factors led to uncertain attendance, which, in turn, brought about the need for drastic measures to pull off the dances at times. I could cover some absent parts, but drums, bass, and piano were more critical. I have resorted to providing click tracks and other feeds via multiple headphones, only when absolutely necessary.

The results varied wildly depending on:
1. Could they hear ?
2. Could they count time?
3. Would the try to be part of a cohesive group, or a grandstander?

The only success I had was if the drummer and/or piano play was there. They were able to keep up with minimal arranger accomp. The biggest problem was with the group falling behind or ahead because the drummer or piano was not forceful enough to command strict tempo, and I was committed to a static beat.

When I said Diki was generally correct, I meant under normal circumstances, which mine weren't.

[quote=Diki
And never, never, NEVER turn on any of the auto stuff while you play with real people!

Ever. 😂🎹😎 [/quote]

I have been using auto-accompaniment for years with combinations of live musicians - usually a horn and drummer/percussionist. Sure, I'd rather a have skilled bassist, and all live drums/percussion but for what these venues pay, I just can't make that happen. Anyways, the results are pretty good in my opinion, we are still working.

I use the drums from the Bk7m all the time when we rehearse or just jam and no drummer is available. Some of the guys tolerate it, some hate it, but nobody 'loves' it. But it does force a certain discipline on our playing together (same as a drummer would = maybe better ). What they dislike most is the time wasted trying to find a good pattern and the right tempo. If you can't do this quickly (and accurately), they may tell you to "turn the damn thing off". The point is, never say NEVER!!!. JMO.

chas

I was referring more to when, as my original post said, to getting together with other musicians to jam. Naturally, if you can’t put even a rhythm section together (bass and drums), well, you’re going to have to introduce some basic arranger parts or work on that left hand bass!

But what I intended to convey was, if you ARE jamming with a band (as I suggested, find a group with no keyboard player but is already rehearsed with each other, and see if they’ll let you sit in from time to time) don’t under any circumstances turn on the auto stuff and demonstrate how you don’t need them!

The truth is, you DO need them far more than they need you! They are your window into the real world, the world where, if you mess up, there’s a discussion about it, not some blinking lights!

And, in truth, I’m not even really talking about jazz. Playing rock well, or blues, or reggae or country, they ALL will improve when you work with others, even if it’s only now and again. As Russ points out (but in a different context) it’s the interaction between musicians that makes any form of it work.

But if you DO find a self contained group that will let you play, don’t EVER show them that you can make them redundant. They are doing you a favor, not the other way round!