By the way, Universal Audio’s free DAW Luna has just got a Windows version. I haven’t tried it, but free is definitely worth investigating!

https://www.gearnews.com/universal-audio-luna-freeware-daw-software/

Diki, it's true that I'm not a skilled musician. I ONLY play chords with my LEFT hand. But 2-3 ticks is MUCH less than a sixteenth note. In Roland arrangers, a quarter note is allocated 120 ticks. So a sixteenth note would be 30 ticks. The 2-3 tick setback that I proposed is a fraction of that, and on-par with the non-adjustable window that I've observed on some Korg arrangers.

Dengizich stated that he was using "Standard" chord recognition. I recommended the use of "Pianist 1" because I know it won't start computing the chord until at least three keys are pressed. Personally I wouldn't know what to do with a sustain pedal!

Gentlemen, we are not here to judge one another. I take everyone's advice, and I highly appreciate it. It's pretty impressive how both of you deal with this issue, each in their own unique way. In reality, there is no right or wrong, as long as it works.

My next move will be to try the chord sequencer, since it would be the BK-9 playing the chords back, and hopefully it won't freak itself out, while recording it as a MIDI file, as long as it would allow me to do a recording while playing a chord sequence, we'll see, but all your inputs will also be taken into consideration.

I only wish that Roland would've done something similar with the BK-9 like Technics did with their arrangers, where you can instruct the arranger that you want a chord of C two measures, a chord of G7 for four measures, a chord of F for 2 measures etc. etc. and the arranger would create the chord sequence without a single note being played... all you would do is just to "type" in the chords...

Roland came out with the Go-Key 3 and 5 recently, and it has a similar function, a chord sequencer, take a look at the link below, and fast forward to 11:54. I assume that once the keyboard has the chord sequence (progression) you can create a backing track, and there shouldn't be any glitch whatsoever. Correct me if I'm wrong...
https://youtu.be/4IyLxXyPLjQ?feature=shared

Diki, I'm not sure where you heard my demo, are you sure you're talking 'bout me?

If you’re using a DAW to play to the NTA, it’s a piece of cake to edit and quantize the guide track. The problem with Ted’s system is that the range of chords it recognizes is far less than can be used. If you give it chords that are inversions, for instance EGAC, how does the chord recognition tell whether it’s Am7/E, or C6/E? You would have to be skilled using a pedal to switch on and off the Bass Inv. switch in real time to adjust for inversions and slash chords.

Edit your guide track to the NTA and you can play permanently in Bass Inv. ON the whole time and get a far larger choice of chords, inversions and slash chords.

The BK9 isn’t able to edit its Chord Track, which means you have to input the played guide track PERFECTLY. Not only perfectly as to notes, but also perfectly as to timing to be just a few ticks early. It’s horribly difficult to do this even slowed down unless the chord track is ridiculously simple! It’s also very bad for your playing to start rushing in general (slightly late or dead on time playing sounds great, but pushing the beat rarely sounds professional) simply to get clean guide tracks to the arranger engine.

I’m not sure if the Go keyboards have an automatic quantize for the Chord Track, but it’s missing from the BK9. In fact there’s no way to edit the CS at all. IMO, Roland should have used an SMF as the format for the CS, but they went with a proprietary format, so you can’t copy it to a DAW (or the internal 16-track sequencer) and edit or quantize it. With Korg’s you can do this…

So you have to use a DAW track to the NTA channel.

But, bottom line, although in an edit window of a DAW, you may see a bunch of code to deal with the arranger changing slightly late input to the NTA to the correct new note, unless you can HEAR it, let it go. You can edit the track to remove all extremely short notes (they will be the notes from the previous chord) and quantize the late notes that are the new notes to the closest 16th and that fixes it as well.

It’s a REALLY bad playing habit to get into, rushing your playing a tiny bit to get cleaner chord recognition… it’s one of those things that’s VERY hard to turn on or off once you start doing it. And even harder to learn to push your LH and drag your RH!

If slowing the track WAY down is still leaving you with the odd late chord input, I think it’s better to use a DAW track to drive the NTA than learn to push the beat.

Last thought, perhaps it’s worth contacting anyone that is making a software Roland style player, and see if they might be willing to code a utility that converts between Roland’s Chord Sequencer file format (it still is basically an SMF but with a non standard suffix and some other little code things) and an SMF. That way you could create the CS on the BK9, export to the DAW, edit it, and then convert back to the Roland format.

Diki, I look up to you, and to your advice , but I have to remind you that while you are at the college level, I'm still in first grade elementary school.

So, you have to explain things in detail. What exactly do you mean by using a DAW to control the Note to Arranger? I never ever used NTA, and I'm very limited when it comes to using a DAW.

Do you mean to create a track in a DAW, with a piano sound for example that would be playing chords, and that track I would feed back to the arranger?

Tell me how to setup the BK-9 and a DAW (in detail) in order to control the arranger from a DAW.

I usually edit MIDI songs with Cakewalk by BandLab. I play Yamaha arrangers and Cakewalk turned out to be a better solution than Cubase. If more detailed MIDI processing is needed, then I use XGWorks, which is the only one that can handle XG Sysex data.

Yes, I used good old Cakewalk Pro 9 and nowadays I sometimes run it because it has just about everything needed to process midi files.

There are several videos on my channel that describe how I process MIDI. I put one here that you might find interesting.
Genos Style recording in Cakewalk - create MIDI file (Song) from Yamaha Arranger

LeonB. Cakewalk by Bandlab requires you to sign in every month, just so you can save your project. I like to use software that I can use even if the internet is going to be down for the next 1000 years. I'm sure it's a great program, no doubt 'bout that, but due to what I mentioned above I'd rather stick with something that I have control over.

Dengizich, I'm also not a fan of Internet-dependent software, or any hardware that depends on a PC, tablet, etc., for full functionality.

Regarding Diki's post on the previous page... he's suggesting that you record the notes that trigger your chord changes to an external sequencer--either a DAW or a hardware sequencer. Quantize them, delete any false notes, and save as a Standard MIDI file. Then, play that SMF back INTO the arranger on the Note To Arranger "NTA" channel. (This are the MIDI channel(s) the BK-9 uses to control its style engine.) This approach will give you perfectly-timed chord changes with no glitches. With the external MIDI controlling the style, you'll still be able to trigger fills, variations, etc. Heck, you could even change to a different style mid-song! This approach frees your left hand from slavishly playing chords, so you can work the bender or comp with both hands if you have the skill to do so.

I have no doubt that this would produce a highly-professional result. The only downsides I can think of are that it's no longer 100% "live," so spontaneity is reduced (not sure how much that matters to you.) I also suppose if you mess up the part you're playing live, if your vocalist is late, etc., the MIDI driving the style will be like a runaway train; it might be hard to regain your place in the music. Features like Mark and Jump could provide a safety valve.

As I've stated before, I'm not a musician-- I'm a gadget geek who likes music. I perceive a spectrum of interaction from passive to active. For example: you can listen to .mp3s (passive). You can launch pre-recorded audio clips. You can play over a "canned" SMF. You can let a MIDI drive your style, as Diki describes. You can play "chords" (with one or more fingers) to control the style in real time. Most interactive would be two-handed piano, or perhaps a two-manual organ with bass pedals. There is no "best" approach. Only your goals and preferences, limited by your personal ability (and time to practice!)

A couple more clarifying comments... Am7 and C6 are comprised of the same notes. On Roland arrangers, even in Pianist 2 mode, the sixth chord is ONLY recognized in root position. You might force the display to show C6/E by sending MIDI to the NTA with an E bass on a different channel. However, I suspect the style will play back exactly the same as it would if you turned on Bass Inversion and pressed EGAC. In other words, the bass track(s) would play in E, and the remaining accompaniment tracks would play some combination of the four notes.

I have indeed devised a way using MIDI Solutions modules to make Bass Inversion a MOMENTARY function (as available natively on Roland's FP-series pianos.) It's on while the pedal is held down. I don't have to press a second time to turn it off. So it's very easy to use in real time for the odd slash chord, while playing other chords in any convenient inversion. I've observed that my beloved "one-finger" Major chords in Intelligent mode always trigger the root bass. This makes songs with slash chords easier to play, even if you leave bass inversion on the whole time. Also, one-finger Majors don't glitch or produce false notes; there's never a problem with notes added late because you only have to press one key! Remember, no one works harder than me at looking for the easy way out! :-)

What's wrong with running software on a PC when it can give you great flexibility.

Bill

Wersi

abacus -> There is nothing wrong with running software on a PC, the problem is when that software requires you to connect to the internet every once in a while, in order to be able to save your work.

Teds -> Thanks for the explanation.