Thank you Peter Bentley for sharing your businessman insight. I agree totally with what you wrote in your post earlier.
I have been a businessman all my life manufacturing large hydraulic machinery for the steel industry world wide. We found after the first prototypes that our customers dictated most all product improvements and changes. We knew our competitors would listen so we had to also. We were unable to control product prices either. We could add the inflation plus a percentage for the cost of the improvements. In the event we could not sell the product at the new price, then we had to learn from the customer what price they could/would pay if we wanted to sell the machinery to them. We then had to adjust the total of the improvements and the price point.
Design obsolescence is always a necessary part of any design. If the product doesn't become obsolete during a given period of time, that it would never be replaced, resulting in the ultimate failure of the manufacturing company.
When I turn on one of the 10 keyboards in my recording studio, I am amazed that it was ever state of the art. I usually change my mind and do not use it. The operating system is too complex, the samples are too low quality, and the time constraints don't allow for relearning the operation of the keyboard/sampler. It is the familiar that we cling to and upgrade. This is what we contirnue to pay for.
It is my understanding that Technics allows their dealers to establish their own retail prices. The local retailer better knows what you are willing to pay for the product in his marketing area, and what the competition offers at that price point. Supply and demand will always dictate price. So too will the need to accept a trade-in that has a "bluebook" value far below what you think it is worth. Yes, there is a published bluebook for all instruments showing wholesale and retail value. The keyboard business is not unlike the automobile business. The end result must be a profit that you the buyer must pay. Without this profit for the manufacturer and the dealer, there will not be a new product from them the following model year.

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BEBOP
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=25
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1

BEBOP .... I don't have a problem with a dealer making a profit .. that's what he's in business for ...but as long as there is not a great discrepancy in the cost to the dealer, without a MSRP available to the consumer, the consumer must work that much harder in order to determine what kind of price he is getting, regardless of where he is located, ... I realize the internet makes 'global' shopping that much easier, but I would personally rather deal with someone in close proximity ... but not if they're killing me with price because they're the only game in town!!! Having knowledge of what the manufacturer expected the unit to sell for would certainly be a help ...
t.

DITTO

I agree with you Tony and Scotty but that is a game some manufacturer/dealers play.
The name of the game is INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU INVEST, as in any commodity.
For example, the difference in the asking price for a KN6000 when it was released was 3100 USD in Los Angeles and 5995 USD in San Jose, both in California. That is a short distance of 400 miles. The freight for 400 miles is maybe 20.00 for a keyboard, on UPS.
Think about it.
BEBOP

..... makes me glad I paid under $3000 for mine .... after I had it ordered, I came upon another local dealer technics dealer ... I asked about the kn6 and he told me he would be selling them for about $1995 ... of course he NEVER had any to sell !!!
t.

If I didn't have any to sell, I could offer them under $1000. (couln't help it)

.... the point EXACTLY !!! BIG favor he was doing for me !!!
t.

If the new keyboard is sold in the U.K. most of the top Technics dealers will mostly start of at a similar price and for instance if that price is £2,250 sterling then the buying price of the keyboard to the dealer will be somewhere around £1250 sterling. A gross profit of around 100% on paper. Set against that you have to take in the cost of operating a local dealership, allow for part exchanges and a good after sales. So we all have the choice of getting it cheaper from mass sales keyboard superstore who usually want to sell and forget it or go to an authorised Technics Dealer and get: to handle the product before you commit to buying: get chance of a part exchange deal:and also a good after sales service.
For my part when I bought my Kn6000 I chose the latter. The reason being that the Store Manager travelled 25 miles to my home to make sure I was happy with it and went through a demonstration of the keyboard with me in my home surroundings.
There are quite a few dealers around who will give you a good deal and excellent service. One particular one in the U.K who I have used many times as I have been on my travels through the different models (about 15 so far) is whitleybayorgans.co.uk who do some very deals.

I happen to have a Technics dealer price list from some years ago (KN2000 era), and the margins are VERY slim. Probably around no more than 350 pounds at best. Still have that price list somewhere, which is in Dutch guilders. Even if a dealer got bulk discount, it's all poor profit IMO. Surprises me they can make a living off of selling Technics. I know other brands such as Yamaha are quite cheaper to buy for a dealer.

[This message has been edited by JvG (edited 03-23-2002).]

Perhaps I should have pointed out in my original post at the top about retail pricing structure.
My cost to sale multiplier is 1.42%. This gives me a 30 percent gross margin. Out of this 30% must come all our costs of doing business, and they are many and varied. This will hopefully leave you with a 5 to 10 % net profit that you must now pay persoanl taxes on. You can see from this that it takes a lot of volume to make a living, especially selling low invoice cost items. Often times a business person will find they are not realizing the return on capital that they could get buying CD's, (Certificates of Deposit). Then if they take their after tax net income and reflect that against the hours they put into their buiness, averaging 65 hours a week, they often find they are earning less then the lowest paid laborers on their payroll.
SO...... give the poor businessman a break. He, like you is just trying to make a living. Very few are rich in spite of what you may think.
Best to all
Bebop