I have recently started hooking up my kn7000 to my pc as I'm beginning to record real audio tracks through Cakewalk Home Studio 2004. Much better sounding then my EES allegro sound card in the PC but there is one issue I discovered. I was told you cannot use the kn7000 as a "monitor" when recording through its "mic" and "line in" inputs when recording audio! The live audio tracks being recorded through the "Mic" picks up the sequenced tracks data in the background; even when wearing headphones and turning off the midi local feeds on each track. Spoke with Cakewalk Tech support and they claim that this is a technics flaw (midi issue)and that I need to use midi-mapping for my "output" on their program and go through my PC's WDM sound card for the output. When I did this, the problem was corrected and I could record myself singing while using the actual sequence for timing purposes and finally; Only the vocals recorded on the audio track! I asked the question on this forum with no response so I thought I would share my fingings with everyone. Seems strange though that there is no way around this issue. Happy Holidays

Hi,
thank you for the posting. I doubt too many of us would have quite understood what you were trying to do and how to solve it.
If I've understood correctly , what you're sort of saying is that when using the kn7 as a sound card, you're recording the whole performance ie vocals & Keyboard parts, wheras you only wanted to record the vocals, while only listening to the keyboard parts?

I've only ever recorded the output from my 9000pro sequencer using the kn7 as the sound card, and I didn't have the problem because I wasn't using the kn7 sequencer, I was only recording the pro's sequence.

Interesting , you learn something new everyday.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by desertrain97:
[B]I have recently started hooking up my kn7000

The premise is a bit strange since the 7k is only a stereo audio device, as opposed to a multitimbral midi device, and Cakewalk a multitrack audio device it should be obvious that you record the backing into two audio tracks in Cakewalk and then overdub your vocals into another track for later mixing.

Naturally with a good quality full duplex soundcard it would be more usual to overdub via the pc. However if you decide the 7k mic input and dsp is better than your pc soundcard mic input you could use the monitor setting in Sound Menu to switch off the speakers/headphones. Now you can feed the backing audio from Cakewalk into the aux input and listen via the 7k speakers/headphones, and record your vocals through the 7k mic input and the usb connection to the relevant track in Cakewalk with no backing on the vocal track.

hi
Why do you need to record your midi into cake walk, just save yor sequence on the kn7000 then sing through the mic and record both at once onto the computer using any audio recording program i use cool edit pro. Save as either mp3 or wav then put onto cd or mini disk .

Jan


[This message has been edited by kozykeys (edited 12-21-2003).]

[This message has been edited by kozykeys (edited 12-21-2003).]

Rikki and Company,

Rikki, YES!! that's exactly what I want to do...only record the VOCAL parts while having the sequence firing in the background for timing purposes and NOT record the sequence as audio...I have a fairly inexpensive sound card that came with the my computer and I really don't want to upgrade...so i thought I could use the KN7000 as a monitor(to hear my sequence play through cakewalk) and ONLY record the audio vocal part...there lies the problem....if I use the KN7000 as a monitor while my sequence plays in cakewalk AND I use the kn7000 vocal input as my source for vocals, the audio track records EVERYTHING,,,same problem occurs when I use the original software that came with the KN7000 (my original post) The only way around it, according to tech support, is to use my cheap soundcard as the monitoring source of my sequence, while recording the vocal part as audio, using the kn7000 as the input source for my Microphone. This is the only way I know of to ONLY record the vocal parts (tracks) as audio without recording the entire sequence as audio which I do not want to do for the purpose of space..(cant wait for the 1 gig SD cards)...but by all means, if someone knows a trick around this, that would be great....I think someone in this post mentioned a non midi switching mechanism that could possibly work in the KN7000? Thanks for all your responses and help...this forum is a great source of knowledge.

Hi Alec,
I'm a bit new to the audio recording side of things, so please bear with me if I ask a few dumb questions. I also use a laptop for music with a very poor quality sound card. I've also got an old cubase audio & power tracks pro audio sequencers.
I'm having a bit of trouble working out exactly what you said and I've packed my kn up so i can't test it ( we're off on holidays)

I for some strange reason assumed that when using the kn7 as a sound card it only worked with the Audio Recorder software that came with the kn7.
If that's not the case and it also works with audio sequencers like power tracks, could you then record the kn7 sequence onto an audio track in power tracks, listen/moniter that track via the computer & a set of headphones, while at the same time record the singing to another audio track using the kn7.

I suppose if it was being done as midi , it would be called multi tracking?
can the same thing be done with audio tracks ie record track after track of audio and build a composition of separate audio tracks instead of midi tracks?

Have a merry xmas, I'll be back in a week or so.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by technicsplayer:
[B]

Hi Rikki,
The 7k will work with any software able to choose audio and midi input and output options since you have panasonic usb audio and midi drivers avialable in windows. The Technics software is only a free basic kit to get people started who have no suitable software. You have two independent 16 channel midi drivers to take advantage of the 128 polyphony – see page 48 since frankly, general midi is so backward compared to what is possible from modern keyboards it is getting to the point where it is not worth bothering with except as a means of universal transfer.
On occasion where I want a specific effect I multitrack audio into Sonar (or Powertracks or whatever you like) by just recording the bass into one audio track, then the drums into another, and the rest (or part) of the accompaniment into another, applying software effects, then mixing to a final track. I may not even use a 7k voice but trigger a streaming sample from the hard drive. However there are so many effects and voices available in the 7k that this level of effort is not normally required since so much can be achieved well with the built in palette.

Your example is precisely what I described above. You may wish the vocal track separate for some reason. Record the backing into two audio tracks, then record the vocal in another audio track and edit mistakes and mix later, or save just the vocal track to SD and accompany it with the sequencer or by playing live as many have seen in Technics roadshows, the combinations are endless and depend entirely on what you want to do and the most efficient workflow to get there. I described one way of recording/monitoring on the 7k rather than a laptop if your laptop has poor mic inputs, which can be a problem on many basic pcs and laptops etc. Using the 7k audio usb for all the recordings can get round the problem without spending extra money.

Audio can be multitracked in exactly the same way as midi on the pc except that the number of software effects and voices far surpass anything you can remotely achieve with general midi. Midi scores if you want to play a track live or get a quick notation, but there is no reason why you can’t leave a track out of the audio to play live - the book cd score in screen demos are such an example. Even transposing audio while keeping tempo constant, or altering the tempo while maintaining pitch is no longer really a problem within a reasonable range. The only thing that has held audio back is the expense of storing it, but that will recede as hard drive (and SD) prices come down and sizes go up. In a reasonable timescale it will be affordable to have no hardware voices in rom at all, and all samples will be streamed from hard drive to audio at a quantum leap in quality compared to todays keyboards, but that's another story.
Happy Holidays

"you could use the monitor setting in Sound Menu to switch off the speakers/headphones. Now you can feed the backing audio from Cakewalk into the aux input and listen via the 7k speakers/headphones, and record your vocals through the 7k mic input and the usb connection"

"save just the vocal track to SD and accompany it with the sequencer or by playing live as many have seen in Technics roadshows"

Hi Alec,

My name is Mike and like Rikki, I'm new to the audio game...If i can ask for some clarification from the two points above:

1.) Do I need to run something else from my PC to the AUX inputs of the KN7000 after I switch off the speakers?

2.)this is execatly what I want to do..I would like my vocals seperate on another audio track and I would like it to play with the kn7000 sequence file (non audio)in sync. The only reason I converted my technics sequence to General Midi (temporarily) was for use in cakewalk so that I can keep my vocal parts seperate, use the sequence as timing device so the audio vocals matched the sequence, take the vocal track(s) only from cakewalk, transfer to the SD card, and play the original kn7000 sequence file,along with the audio parts in sync, while playing live with everything. I problably am doing to many steps but my biggest stumbling block has been trying to avoid recording my backing sequence as an audio file while making my vocal track(s). Thanks and Happy Holidays

Hi Mike,
Let’s assume you want to use the 7k mic input and DSP for the vocal because it’s better than the mic input on the laptop, particularly down the usb connection. To obtain the backing track for timing first record it to audio on the laptop on its own. Now you can get the vocal on its own down the 7k mic input and usb connection at a far better quality than most laptop mic inputs without the backing.

There are various possibilities how to now sync your timing to the backing for the vocal. You could just listen to the backing on the laptop headphone out, but this is likely to be a little weak. Another method would be to feed the analogue line out of the laptop to the aux in of the 7k with stereo audio cables. Now go to the Sound Menu and Monitor and set to OFF. The speakers and headphones (which will have a more powerful drive than the laptop headphone amp) of the 7k will play back the backing audio tracks but isolated from the mic input. Naturally the recording program options will now need panasonic audio usb on the input for the mic, but laptop wave out on the output. You can now record the vocal audio through the 7k mic input and DSP and the usb connection digitally to Cakewalk or whatever to a separate track without any sequencer backing. Then just erase the audio backing tracks and save the vocal wave, and convert and check out to SD.

The only remaining problem is eventual final sync of audio vocal track on SD to sequencer playback. If you make sure to have the start point of sequencer backing playback and laptop audio backing recording at the same time, and then start the vocal audio recording at the same time as the audio backing playback you may not even need to do anything. If the vocal sync is slightly out with the sequencer it can be tweaked backwards and forwards in the 7k with the SD Audio Synchro function in the Sequencer menu.
Happy Holidays

Alec,

That method makes sense as well....Thanks, I'll give it a try,,,,gotta love that tempo adjust in the audio/sync option of the KN7000 sequencer!...Happy Holidays and thanks for sharing your insight