Dear fellow members,

The Technics Forum on the Synth Zone has been dominated by discussions about KN series keyboards. The infrequency of discussions on digital ensemble (the SX-PR series) and organs (the GN, FN, EA, GA and FA series) is quite discouraging, if not also reflecting the lack of diversity. I would also like to invite people to talk about a variety of issues other than those that largely pertain to how to use certain features of their musical instruments that they own or play.

Is there anyone out there who still own and play any of the sumptuous Technics organs?

Compared to organs, the limitations of any KN keyboard are only too apparent given that there is only a single keyboard with only three parts: RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and LEFT. (I do know that each part can be a layered composite sound.) The poor thing has to share three parts on a short five octave keyboard! I try to get around this by connecting a full 88-key SX-P50 via MIDI port(s) to a KN keyboard so that I have room for both hands to manoeuvre after the applying left/right split.

On the organs, there are two keyboards, each with four parts: ORGAN, SOUND1, SOUND2 and SOUND3. Adding the pedal keyboard, there are a total of nine parts!

On listening to recordings or live playing, the differences speaks for themselves! The texture, harmonic and countrapuntal features of organ music are superior, while the keyboard music is often just confined to featuring a main melody over an accompaniment texture. The digital ensemble music lies somewhere between the organ-keyboard spectrum.

An advanced organ player can even manage to play on both keyboards with one hand, and he or she can do the same with the other hand. Add both feet, and you get six different lines of music going at once. And you can have all of that on an organ even before adding the performance pads, automatic accompaniments and the sequencer parts.

Of course, you can also play an organ as if it is a KN keyboard by turning on the auto accompaniment and one-touch play.

I believe that what ultimately killed the popularity and sustainability of the organ line and its market is not the enormous size and lack of portability but the enormous price tag. I'll leave you to picture and ponder on the effects of Greed, Absurdity, Over-Pricing and Marketing Tactics that backfired. There probably have been other reasons as well. Perhaps some of you can enlighten us.

One of my cousins wrote on the 3rd of January 2005:

Kind Regards,
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KHAI-WEI
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Hi,

I still own, but now rarely play my GA1. In 1999, I paid around $6000 new for it with a trade on a older Technics portable organ.For the last 15 months, I've been playing on the KN7000 on top and the PA50 on the bottom. Far superior sounds/rhythms on the arrangers vrs. the organ, not even close. I rarely used more than 2 voices at once on the upper right hand, but I do occasisonally miss having 2 voices on the left (bottom). The only other advantage to organs are the big built-in speakers. Since I comp with the left hand and read from lead sheets, I don't need a full size keyboard. It took a little to get used to, since the left foot helped me keep min time. I'll keep the organ as a back-up, or to practice on if the arrangers are tied up at a gig.

Mark

Dear Khai-Wei,

I own and play both the F-100 organ and the KN7000. Many of your comments with regard to a live performance are true. Considering both instruments, there is nothing more thrilling than hearing the theater organ sounds of the F100. It’s quite easy to give chills to the listener, even with a simple arrangement. However, I live in a small rural community. There are just a handful of organ/keyboard players that have any interest in these instruments. As a result I find it necessary to reach out to musicians in other communities with recordings.

Here is where the KN7000 shines, due to the far superior orchestral sounds, much more flexible Composer program and the finest inboard sequencer I’ve ever used. As you suggest, the technique of playing the keyboard is very different than playing the organ, however my only concern is the listener’s experience in hearing the final CD. And even counting the organ voices, the KN7000 wins hands down.

My best wishes,
Frank Bez

As an amateur "musician," I have to offer my few comments on this subject of the fabulous organs and other instruments. I agree they are spectacular to listen to, but only accomplished musicians can play them, and play them well! I think among the members of this Synth Zone Forum, there are probably a number of professional players and really expert musicians on board, and the comments in this thread may be appropriate to them. But, also among all of the total number of members here, there are at least a few of us who, like me, are amateurs, who, also like me, cannot read music, or who have only limited or no musical education, and cannot really even classify ourselves as "musicians," but who can still enjoy the magic musical pleasures of plucking away on a keyboard like the fabulous Technics 5000, 6000, 6500, 7000, or even some of the older KN models.

So, I agree that perhaps the KN keyboards are limited to those of you who can really play. But for those of us who are hobbyists, who play by ear, with limited or no musical knowledge or education, or who are less than professional in ability, the KN allows us the wonder of playing and enjoying a unique musical experience that no organ or more complicated keyboard can. I love to sit at my 7000, play a familiar melody, and chord it by ear alone, and then add the automatic sounds offered by the KN keyboard. When they are all put together, I sound like I can really play!! And that is magic to me!

Therefore, I love reading and learning from all the comments and suggestions that this Forum provides us, regardless of "talent" and musical ability, to help us get the most out of our KN keyboards. It would seem to me that perhaps the organists should have their own Forum; if one does not exist, perhaps it can be started.

For whetver they are worth, those are my comments. Nonetheless, I enjoyed the comments from all of you herein, even if they are not relevant to me. Thanks for letting me get my "two cents worth" in!

Ted Rose

Hi all,

On this topic, although they seem to have differing views, I agree with both Khai-Wei and Ted.

Yes, the organs were over-sized, over-hyped and definately over priced; that's about the only way I can put it. I started out, many years ago, on a Yamaha double-keybaord organ. Bear in mind that this was in te late 1970's so it was a bit of a dinosaur to what's availible these days. My first single keyboard / synth, strangely enough made by Panasonic, Technics' poor relation, came as a breath of fresh air as I found I had a lot more control over the actual sounds I was playing and also was able to concentrate more on what my hands were doing, so the results started to improve litterally from day one.

I've got to also agree, as I'm sure that Nigel & Bill would, that this part of SynthZone is not just for us KN owners but for all Technics 'board and organ users regardless of ability.

Ted's quite right though. The level of control of the 'board surpasses that of any organ I've had the privilege to play. Your comments about the number of voices seem to be in error. Once you've mastered the technique of sequencing and step recording (sorry Bill to bring that one back up) you actually have the possibility of up to 15 voices playing at the same time (14 if you want an auto accompliment) plus an extra track for control codes. Don't think that I'm saying 'boards beat organs every time; they both have there good points and bad points. To sum up, if you're happy with your instrument, learn how to get the most out of its' functions and play on.

If, however, you're not, time to reach for the Amex.

Enough said,

Regards,

Mark

PS Update on Luce

As some of you may have seen on the International news, a number of the volunteer groups have been moved from southern Sri Lanka to the eastern part of the island where they've discovered numerous villages which have been affected/devastated by the Tsunami. There's a problem though as it takes them closer to Tamil territory and there's the danger of incursions by Tamil terrorist soilders for aid etc. She's still in touch each day by SMS and Email so I'll keep you posted.

I'm sure our thoughts are with all the volunteers working in the region.

Mark

Dear All,

Hi! It is encouraging to read the responses on this topic.

I would like to clarify emphatically that I was by no means taking an elitist stance of any sort in my assessment of the differences that exist in playing different instruments. And such a comparative assessment was neither predicated on playing ability nor on a particular instrumental perspective. Rather, it was predicated on what each type of instrument can offer the player, and how each can enable or constrain by virtue of its construction. In other words, I was merely pointing to the intrinsic capabilities of these different instruments based on their designs and functionality. On these reasons, and since all three of them ---- namely the keyboards, organs and digital ensembles under the Technics brand ---- have automatic accompaniments and sequencers anyway, the differences therefore do not lie in what can assist the player, but in what they allow the player to do physically. Hence, all other things being equal, there are inevitably those differences that I have objectively identified between them; the ability of the player being irrelevant. I thought that I made these points quite clear previously and hope that this present posting will dissipate any misunderstanding that might have taken place. Phew!!

Khai

It's amazing what a University education can do for you - wish my parents could have afforded it all those years ago...

hang on Roger,what about me,a Dr. Barnado's boy.

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rog.

Roger, (Mepstead)
Perhaps you too could have become a "professional student" unaware of the social graces required of interacting with your fellow man.
Enough said, I'm out of here.
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 01-11-2005).]

Dear Walt Meyer,

I would much prefer understanding to typecasting people, even though the former takes more time and patience, and requires the suspension or reassessment of initial judgements or vilifications. Isn't that one of "the social graces required of interacting with your fellow man", or to be less sexist or chauvinistic, "your fellow human"?

Anyway, thank you for taking the leap of faith in visiting this thread in the first place, even if it has subsequently turned out to be not quite your cup of tea.

[This message has been edited by Khai (edited 01-11-2005).]