Through several emails with one of the forum members, the subject of CUSTOM PANEL was brought up. I never used the feature. Bringing it to my attention, I decided to use it because it seemed a good way to save all panel memories instead of saving them on the SD card. Day before yesterday, I did the set and got a COMPLETED. I thought everything was fine. Yesterday, I decided to play one of the song files using SD SONG MEDLEY. Every one of RIGHT 2 sounds was changed because of using the CUSTOM PANEL. I don’t understand why this happened because when I save songs, I always save the panel memory that I have done the song in. Why the CUSTOM PANEL over rides this is surprising. I don’t think it should do this but since it has, I will no longer use this feature. I had to go into 14 songs in this file and change all the RIGHT 2 settings back to the sounds they were supposed to be. A big job, I might add. Anyone have any thoughts why this happened?

Scott

Question for you Scott.
The sequenced stuff that you previously saved in panel memories prior to your mishap - did you save it as 'Normal' panel memory mode or 'Expand' panel memory mode; and if it was the latter what did you specify in the Expand Mode Filter.
My thinking is that when you try to recall previously saved stuff it is not overriding the custom panel stuff because of unaware limitations you placed in the original panel memory savings...not well explained but perhaps you get my drift.
Rog

[This message has been edited by RMepstead (edited 03-10-2008).]

There are a couple more questions that might help us understand your problem, Scott. You said "it seemed a good way to save all panel memories instead of saving them on the SD card". What do you think is saved when you do the custom panel save?

Where is the file that contains the 14 songs? If the songs are in SD memory, why do you want to avoid using the SD card for Panel Memory setups?

After you pressed the Custom Panel button to retrieve the Custom Panel setup that you had saved, did you press any of the Panel Memory buttons?

When you corrected the 14 songs did you save them back to the SD card? If so, did you save the Panel Memory also?

BOB HENDERSHOT.....

I've been trying to reach you via email since Saturday evening with no success.... Will you please contact me? Do you have another edress?

Please excuse my intrusion on this thread..

ELIZABETH EVELYN

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Elizabeth, try again. Got the mail you sent this afternoon.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responses. Firstly, when I record a song in Sequencer, I use PANEL MEMORY BANK A. I do not use any of the Banks 1 through 10 for sequenced work. When I save a song on SD card, I save the following only: CURRENT PANEL, PANEL MEMORY 3BANK, (Not All Panel Memory) SEQUENCER and EFFECT MEMORY. I know that some of you do as Bob does and save work done in COMPOSER, SOUND MEMORY and PERFORMANCE PADS as well as the others that I save. Bob knows that I get my styles from the CUSTOM STYLES that I have created and not from COMPOSER. I purposefully do not get involved with saving SOUND MEMORY on each song and here is why: Say that I have done a song six months ago and during the last six months, I have created several new sounds. If I bring up a six-month old song saved with the Sound Memories that I had at that time and start to play live, a song that has later custom sounds in Sound Memory, they won’t be there for my use. I try not to get involved with saving SOUND MEMORY. I save SOUND MEMORY only when I have created new sounds to add to what I already have that have been saved. The sounds are always there. If for some reason that they are not, I reload them again from the card.

Rog, I always work with EXPAND MEMORY MODE. Everything is set to ON other than MIDI, which is OFF.

Bob, I am probably wrong but I assume when saving CUSTOM PANEL, it is saving BANKS A, B, C as well as saving BANKS 1 through 10. Is this not correct? Before I ever tried using CUSTOM PANEL and had all my Panel Memories set as I wanted, I would always save them on the SD Card by saving only ALL PANEL MEMORY.

I might add to the aforementioned – when saving SOUND MEMORY, ALL PANEL MEMORY and CUSTOM STYLES, I save each as a single file. This brings them up quickly. I seldom get involved with CUSTOM STYLES unless I have another 20 styles that are different. CUSTOM STYLES is the only file that takes more time to load or is from my experience.

I’m hoping all of what I have said is understandable. Many of you on the forum are much more advanced than I am with some of these technical issues.

In closing, I might add that what I found strange with these changes is in RIGHT2, they were all changed to BIG BAND BRASS, which is in SOUND EXPLORER. I find this very odd.

Scott

Scott, read page 23 of your manual re Custom Panel. Note the bottom paragraph where it says "if there is ONE particular combination of settings". It's like a single panel memory button that always stays the same until you intentionally change it. Pressing the Custom Panel button will bring up whatever panel settings you saved for that button. Pressing any other panel memory button cancels the Custom Panel setting and the Custom Panel light will go out. A solution to the panel setup problem is to always insert the panel memory button that you want to use for the song at the beginning of the song sequence.

It is still not clear where you have the file of 14 songs. If you are using Custom Styles for all the songs, I suspect that things have changed since you saved the custom styles and you need to do an all custom style load from your backup before you begin to play. It is easy to get settings confused when you depend on Custom Styles. Custom Styles were great with older keyboards that took a lot of time for song setup loads from disk. The SD card is so fast that there is little need for them with the KN7000. I avoid Custom Styles like the plague.

I am totally baffled by your comment on Sound Files. I can't find the logic there so will not try to comment except to say that they should ALWAYS be included in the same file save and load as the Sequencer file.

This is also true with your comment on saving individual files. With the possible exception of All Custom files the difference in load times is almost negligible.

Bob, I thought I gave a good example by saying if I saved SOUND MEMORY in a sequenced song I did six months ago and after playing it, wanting to immediately play a live performance by using Panel Memories, I would not have the later added sounds in SOUND MEMORY that I have chosen in a current Panel Memory to play live. It seems to me that you load from the SD card every song you play. I use the SD card only when I have to. I don’t want to be bothered of loading each song I play and the way you are suggesting is what I would have to do. If I put Sound Memory on every song that I did in Sequencer, the Sound Memory would most likely be changing. If I wanted to play a song live, I would have to download Sound Memory to make sure I had the latest sounds in my Panel Memories. I don’t want to do that. I might want to play 10 songs live and I expect all the sounds that I created to be in Sound Memory. Saving SOUND MEMORY in every sequenced song is a dangerous thing when one plays live because of the changing sound possibilities. Saving Sound Memory in every sequenced song the way you do might be fine for someone who does not change sounds in Sound Memory or who plays every song by loading them from the SD card.

When I did this CUSTOM PANEL setting, the CUSTOM STYLES did not change – they are fine. The only thing that changed was RIGHT2 in all the Panel Memories. What I didn’t make clear in my post was that the sounds in SOUND MEMORY had not changed. What changed was what took place in BANK A Panel Memories where I have my songs sequenced. The sound in RIGHT2 in all the BANK A Panel Memories changed to BIG BAND BRASS. I had to go to every song I saved and change RIGHT2 to the correct sound used in each Panel Memory. This strange thing did not happen in RIGHT1 in any of the Panel Memories.

Bob, from what you said about using the CUSTOM PANEL, it doesn’t sound like it would be much use to me. If it is going to negate any setting by going to another Panel Memory, I don’t see the advantage. Saving a sequenced song, I save the PANEL MEMORY 3BANK so I have the Panel Memory needed. I will check the page you suggested but as I write, it doesn’t sound that useful. I thought that doing a set in CUSTOM PANEL saved every Bank, the same way as if you save ALL PANEL MEMORIES on the SD Card. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that it saves only the one Panel Memory presently being used. Is this correct?

Scott

After reading all that is posted here I’m left with a sense of confusion.
My rules – Keep in mind that I do not have KN7000 or a manual, this is right off the top of my head.
Work as the keyboard was designed to work, add your ideas to the system. If you invent a way contrary to the keyboard’s design you will have problems that can not be solved.
1-When saving the keyboard automatically selects that which should be saved – “Performance” -- you can change the preference if there is a good enough reason – only if needed.

2-Whenever you play a sequence from a source other than yourself or your own there is a danger that the sequence may make undesirable changes without you being aware of it.

3-To load to load the 20 custom styles for each endeavor is not a great idea –
so I have four different 20 custom styles that fit special types of music. Big band, Sing-a-longs, Dance and specialty. In an evening I may load the 20 custom styles two or three times. (If needed)

4-I save 10 normal panel settings, “not extended”, for my live playing. Either playing a song from memory or reading I have 10 banks to chose form. Each bank has been created to use with a specific type of music.
EX. Big Band Ballads – Big Bands Moderate – Big Band Strong – Latin – Polka – Waltz –Disco ect—I am ready to play live.

5-In extended play my panel memory, all 13 banks are setup with a song title and a keyboard setup. Press one memory button and I’m playing the song.

My discipline:
1-Whenever I decide to record anything with the keyboard I load my normal panel settings above, this way I am always working from the same base. This includes the sound memory.

2-If I record a sequence I will always copy the style I am using from the custom 20 to the memory style. I feel that no matter what the style is it needs some editing to best fit the song.

3-If I decide to edit a instrument sound I add to the original sound memory, the same sound memory that I load be fore I start anything. My sound memory is always growing in an orderly fashion. I do not have more than one sound memory that would add to much confusion, 40 are enough for me.

4-I do not find it necessary to select certain parts when I am saving unless there is a reason, the SD card has a large enough capacity. When I work with my keyboard I select the first choice of saving which is the “Performance” – Technics knew what they were doing. IMPORTANT, save panel setting to “ALL” I want all 13 banks not three. (Not just A B and C)

5-On my SD card and a floppy I have every area of the user sections covered. Someone can sit at my keyboard and change everything and I am covered.

6-I am very careful with the OTS, I do not like many of the instrument choices. I need to have control.

Scott, I sense your frustration – I am guessing that is because your are going against the design of the keyboard. If I have not covered your issue please respond and I’ll give it anther go.

Hope this helps, John C.

You made some excellent points, John. Most everyone I know has a keyboard setup in SD memory that takes them back to whatever setup they prefer to use for just playing whatever comes to mind, or playing live without sequences or specific song setups. I use SD card location 01-01. I know of others that use 99-01. It doesn't matter where the setup is located, you just need to have a location that is easy to remember. The file needs to have everything in it including a blank sequencer file as well as the sound memory file. As you said, there is no worry about changes in the keyboard or other people inadvertantly changing the setup. All it takes to return to the settings you want, is a SD card load of less than five seconds and you are ready to play live.

Scott is using custom memory styles and edited sounds in sound memory as a part of a song sequence and is not saving the style nor the sound memory with the sequence save. That forces him to be constantly worried about any changes in those areas. It is inevitable that somewhere downstream the sequence will be played and unexpected results will occur because changes have taken place since the sequence was made. His fear that changes will occur is unfounded if he would simply include these things in the sequence save process. That means, as you implied, copying the custom style to the composer and using the composer instead of the custom style with the sequence. Then the composer file and sound file would be saved with the sequence. If these things are done the sequence could be played several years later with no concern about inappropriate settings.

I should clarify that when I said that I avoid custom styles like the plague above I should have emphasized that I was talking about using custom styles in a sequence. They are obviously a great tool for non sequenced playing.