G'day,
Question (3).
It has been well published regarding the speed of the SD card. My question is....when downloading from the card takes 3 seconds, why does saving to the SD card take 30 seconds? Am I not doing something right (heaven forbid),if that is not normal,then what should I do or change, to improve the time factor??? Saving to disc normally does not take that long.
(I know I am not perfect, but my parents were).
Question (4) NOOooooooo!!!
Wait for previous answer Ray, they may be exhausted after all that research.
Ray


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Ray The Saint

aaah - data in data out relationships eh...
The other thing to say about floppy disks is that they take nearly as long to download into the keyboard as they do to be saved in the first place...
My educated guess Ray would be that in the saving process to SD Card all the data (6 seperate files) is being carefully placed where it can be quickly downloaded subsequently...
Anybody else got any ingenious ideas?
Rog
p.s. You can of course save less parts of the whole - pages 2 and 3 of the save process...

[This message has been edited by RMepstead (edited 10-26-2009).]

Hi Roger,
It's obvious, your parents were as smart as mine.
I always did save only the data needed, when I had the KN5, and I do not know why I did not apply the same common sense with KN7. Iwas not sure the Kn7 was the same and was hesitant to try it.I have just gone through the exercise and the "save time" has reduced to 13 seconds.(Less than half).
I only save the two Panel Memory files and all is well.
Thanks Roger

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Ray The Saint

Well now Gentlemen.....

Everytime I shut down my home 7K I save everything.....Every option is "yes" except for the panel memory which is "all".....

I do not care how much time it takes nor have I timed it.

My parents were both very bright and I am even brighter!

Elizabeth

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Writing to Flash Memory always takes a bit longer than reading from the memory - it's a function of the technology. However, you've found the basic solution to your problem Ray - only save the parts you really need, on Page 2/3. Not only will this result in shorter 'Save' times, but songs or set-ups saved this way will also load faster.

Incidentally, when playing at a gig, and you want to save that little bit extra time when loading the next setup or song from the SD card, try the following:

While you are still playing the current song, at suitable spaces in either left or right hand playing, press the SD Load button, then the 'Load' button and navigate to your next song in the list. Then when you have finished playing the current song, just press the 'Load' button and your next song or set-up, will be loaded, resulting in less 'down-time' between songs.

Following on from Bill's point - if you press and hold the 'Load' button it will prepare the next song in the folder ready to load it when you've finished the current one. It automatically hops on to the next file....clever innit...
Rog

Forgot to mention that Rog........... Of course that assumes that your files are saved in the order in which you wish to play them

There are many ways to use the KN7000. All of us think our way is best because it fits our style. But, here are some things I think about.

I agree that it was wise to selectively save stuff with older keyboards like the KN5000 because it took so long to load a file from floppy. In those days I would do most anything to avoid loading from disk any more than I had to. In my opinion, though, when you are using the SD card there is so little time to be gained by not saving all the default stuff it isn't worth the difference in time. Try saving a song setup with only the sound files, composer, the current memory, and default panel memories A, B, and C. Load that file and see how much time it takes. Next save the entire default list including the Sequencer, Performance Pads, and Effect Memory. Then load that file and compare the amount of time it takes with the file that has just some of the stuff. There will be less than two seconds difference. Are those two seconds worth the risks of selectively saving like we used to do with older keyboards?

Assume that you have loaded one of Larry or Bill's nice song sequences and after playing that song, you want to load one of your song setups that was selectively saved and did not include the sequencer file. Since you did not load a replacement sequencer file, Larry or Bill's sequence is still in the sequencer and you may well find yourself trying to play one song while a different song is playing in the sequencer. The moral is "Always load a blank sequencer file with each song setup". This clears the sequencer of any left over stuff.

The same can happen with sound or effect memory. When you don't include those options with the save, you will have whatever happens to be there when you load the next song setup. You may well end up with a voice that has digital effects applied that you didn't want, because you left those things the way they happened to be the last time you loaded that file.

These are just some things to think about. I prefer to save and load the entire default list of things. It is much safer and it takes almost no additional time.

In my opinion, there is nothing to be gained by saving all the panel memories instead of just banks A, B, and C. When you save all the panel memories, there is a noticeable increase in save and load time. Loading a song setup from SD card that contains all the default stuff including PM banks A, B, and C takes less than 5 seconds and is just as fast as trying to use the old method of incrementing PM banks to find the bank that contains a setup suitable for your song.

Hello All,

It is interesting to know how other people save and load their work.

I agree with Bob that it is better in the long run to save everything and this can be done all in one go by making sure the EXPAND mode is highlighted.

I also use the ABC panel memories which is usually more than enough but if for instance I'm setting up a programme for a party or dance, I would then use the Banks as once they're loaded, you have instant access to everything on them.

As for loading, for me using the 'numerical' option is the quickest once the SD Card is in place.

Everyone has their own ideas and I would say a lot depends on what you're doing/planning.

Interesting topic though.

Audrey

Thank you all for the interesting and varied approach to my query.
(1) Settle down Elizabeth.
(2) My original curiosity was aroused because the SD card was so fast in loading, yet slow in saving.
(3)Because I have settings for nearly all songs in my commonly used books,which amount to a few hundred,songs that is,and I have to tweak all those settings from my KN5000 discs,to the Kn7, the few seconds saved each time amounts to a lot of time overall.
Also, I have access to many discs with styles and sounds, which I am saving to the
SD card for reference when I need them, and the extra time taken can be frustrating.
I agree that when closing down after use, that time can be insignificant as a one-off situation.
Isn't it strange, the older I get, the more tolerant and impatient I become.
Great to know you are all so keen to help.
Question (4) is in the pipe-line, and of a similar nature, so hone up your skills and be ready!!!!
I am also attending to big bro's questions when I can be of help to him.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Ray, I know we are going on a tangent to your original post. Hope you don't mind. But Audrey brought up some stuff that you might find useful as you transition to the new keyboard.

Well . . . You surprised me, Audrey. I thought you used the KN7000’s Favorites to set up your gigs. I guess this could be an interesting direction for this thread to continue. So, let me have a go at trying to explain how I do it.

I use a Music Pad Pro to display my sheet music. It has an option for using a “playlist” for selecting songs. So I set up a list of songs in the sequence that I intend to play. The list usually contains about 50 songs. As I finish a song, a single touch on the right side of the display (or a foot switch) causes the next song sheet to display.

I use the KN7000’s SD Favorites, in which I set up an identical list of songs that I have in the playlist of the Music Pad Pro. I use a new SD load for each song and have the panel memories set up in the sequence that I use them as I progress through the song. The default load gives me panel memories A, B, and C (24 panel memories) that I can use for each song. As I play the song, a foot pedal is used to increment the panel memories at the appropriate time. I have several hundred songs set up like this in my SD card.

So, the process goes something like this: While I am playing the end of a song, I touch the right side of the Music Pad Pro to bring up the next song sheet. I then press the SD button on the KN7000 and then the Favorites button. So, while I am still finishing the first song, I have the next song’s music sheet displayed on the MPP and the KN7000 display shows the list of Favorites songs. When the song ends, I only have to press a single button of the Favorites list to load the next song setup from the SD card.

I can start the next song in three or four seconds.

G'day Bob,
No sweat, feel free to expand on any of my topics anytime, we all learn from the feed back.
I understand where you are going, which relates to playing to an audience, and It seems a great way to operate.I only have The Gardener to please, and my mates, but that's for free. Gee, Bob they must be very demanding when you are ready to go in about 3 seconds. Even a live dance band would take longer than that to change their music.
Did I tell you about my one and only escapade??
A private N/H employed my services for an hour as Diversional Therapy. I put a fee of $15 on my time just in case it was not as I thought, although i would have done it for no fee if necessary. After six months I was dispensed with. Was I too expensive ????
Maybe the gorilla suit put them off??
Roger, leave that one alone.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

''ready to go in about 3 seconds. Even a live dance band would take longer than that to change their music.''
Watcha 'em drift off the floor never to return if you take too long between numbers - particularly uptempo stuff where one song really does need to follow straight on from the previous one...
Were you too expensive Ray...naah its more likely that you kept playing the same stuff using the same rhythm each time you went there...Never seen a gorilla playing a keyboard though, interesting...
Rog
Roll on question number 4...like what is/are SD Favorites?

I must disagree, before the song ended we were ready to start the next song, especially if we were going from a ballad to an up-tempo. We began the new song as the last measure of the first song was being played. They were moving on the dance floor and we did not want them to stop.

Ray, every time I try to understand people I end up with more questions than I started with. People on the most part do not know.

And please do not stop posting with your humor I love it, it’s refreshing.

John C.

Quotes : Watcha 'em drift off the floor never to return if you take too long between numbers - particularly uptempo stuff where one song really does need to follow straight on from the previous one...

and........

..... before the song ended we were ready to start the next song, especially if we were going from a ballad to an up-tempo. We began the new song as the last measure of the first song was being played. They were moving on the dance floor and we did not want them to stop.

My point exactly and why I use the method I described above.

Hello
Not to be too technical.
The writing speed for a SD card is always much longer than the reading speed.
Thats why saving is longer.
You can see this when writing and loading on a computer or digital camera.
There are newer high speed cards that would help some.

Jene

Hi jene,
Now, that is something I think we all needed to know.
Your parents were obviously perfect too.
see ya !!
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Quote "There are newer high speed cards that would help some.

.... but they will not work on the KN7000 / KN2600, because the operating system is not capable of addressing these new SDHC or SDXC Cards.

Thanks Bill I didn't know that.
I might have bought one and wondered what the problem was.

Jene

Reading your reply on this post Bob surprised me too, as you work almost the same way as me but I use a Foot Controller to activate the moves. For dancing, I work in Medleys of 3 or 4 tunes to a dance, depending on the age groups. 3 for the seniors and 4 for the in-betweens. These are set into PMs A,B & C or, into Banks for larger parties.

The one thing you have that I have often wished for is the Music Pad. Unfortunately, finances wont allow a purchase, but when we met in Cambridge, Joan and Carol brought their pads along and I was very impressed.
Ah well! I'll keep it on my 'wish list'

Audrey