Guys I think we can talk about this topic and still be civil about it. It's an amazing story too.

My view on this.., is I'M ON THE SIDE OF THE POLICE OFFICERS and their Department. There is ONE VERY important factor in this entire situation that IS NOT being addressed too. I feel terrible for what happened to this poor guy. It's an awful thing to be on your own property and have to prove it's your house to the Police. I've been there myself I can relate to the guy on this... I'm African American and I've had cops called to my house IN BROAD DAYLIGHT because Police got a call that a man (who looks middle-eastern) looked suspicious going in and out of a backyard shed. Here I own the property AND the shed and have for several years and gotta now prove to the Police who simply responded to a call..., that I own it and that's it's ok for me to use my own shed.

Well that leads me to the REAL PROBLEM in this case. It's NOT the Police. It's ignorant, paranoid citizens that USE their local Police Departments to get to their neighbors by using RACISM. We live in a very SCREWED up society. People use their local Police to racial descriminate against their neighbors ALL THE TIME.

I feel just as bad for the Police in this case as I do the guy who got arrested. The Police did NOTHING but respond to a call! What's being left out is the parnoid caller who made the freaking call in the first place that resulted in this HUGE mess. Did the guy get vocal.., hell yeah he did.., and rightfully so.., honestly who wouldn't get a little vocal in this type of situation. He probably did go a little overboard with it too. These officers took a good verbal lashing before they arrested the guy...

This poor Police Officer is now having his career destroyed and tainted by this case. It's so unfair to this guy too. This man was hand selected (by another guy who was African American) to teach POLICE officers a course on RACIAL PROFILING. This man teaches officers NOT to profile and is considered an EXPERT in the area.

Police Dept's get their images destroyed when they respond to these types of calls. It puts them in a very tough position too...

Yet the media will not address the REAL issue here and will continue to use RACE IN AMERICA to boost ratings. While at the same time destroying the reputation of GOOD Police Officers and ruining the image of their Department.

If you guys remember..., when this story first broke and the media reported on it.., the Police responded to a call that "Two Black Men" were trying to break into a house. Racist neighbors do this crap ALL the time. People know the "trigger words" to use when they make these calls. It's VERY common today (not always shared with the public) that citizens will call the Police to report something and in an attempt to get them to respond quicker will say it involves "black men". It's disgusting, sad, but true and happens EVERY day.

This story needs to turn around and focus on the PARANOID and ignorant neighbor who made this BS phone call and caused this entire mess.

I hope this officer doesn't have his career destroyed over this too. Police Departments are put in this uncomfortable position every day because of racist callers.

**just to add.., did you guys look at the images of Gates in custody???? Take note of whether the sun was up or down. Ask yourself this question.., isn't it odd the concerned caller couldn't identify his own neighbor...? Look at the location of the houses too. There's a 95% chance the call came from somoeone who had a clear view of Gate's porch--which would mean there's a high probability that the call originated from the OTHER side of the street. Why aren't they looking more into the neighbor who was so eager to be interviewed in this who stated Gates got verbally abusive with the Police??? He just might have been the person who made the call.

When this happened to me.., it turned out to be a guy down the street (whos familiy is known to have racial issues). When Police arrived a crowed gathered.., this guy wandered up to take joy in the mess he caused. Cops later got his ass for it though




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-24-2009).]

I think the whole situation is unfortunate for all parties involved, especially with the media circus that follows. I am an ardent Obama supporter, and am glad that he can speak his mind, but at the same time being a law enforcement officer myself, I hope he learned a lesson from all of this..
and that is to not take such a strong stance when you don't know all the facts of the case.. especially given that what you did know about it came from the media.

Z

On a lighter note but one that illustrates how people can jump to incorrect assumptions based on race ... a couple of years ago the rock band I play with had a gig at a Jewish synagogue where the female rabbi was having a birthday party. They had a security guard on the gate to direct cars driving into the parking area. At the time our female singer was Claudene http://claudene.com/ an African-American, she pulled into the driveway and the security guard walked up and said to her "Are you lost?". Of course he was embarassed when she told him "No, I'm here to sing with the band". But it goes to show how people automatically jump to wrong conclusions just because of skin color. He hadn't asked the rest of the band if we were lost.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-25-2009).]

Interesting story Nigel. I agree with the previous poster who is an LEO. Obama jumped too quick on this with his remark.

I place blame on both Gates and the Officer. The officer being in a position of authority expected that authority to be respected. Gates (in his home) felt he was being disrespected by someone who was in a position of authority.

Gate's needs to come to terms with something though. YES.., he was racially profiled. He however wasn't profiled by the Police Department. Gate's and his driver were profiled by his "neighbor". The officers were simply responding to a call. The neighbors call wasn't accurate either and the caller added a little "fluff" to the report (such as saying two black men with "back packs") when neither of them had back packs (using back packs to imply two black men with ill intentions using those back packs).

I feel bad for cops today. You guys got it hard. The public often puts the police in a hard spot because they just respond to a call. They have no clue that they're responding to a call based on someone's racial prejudices. The cops are always taking a public beating because of racist callers that do the profiling and not the cops.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-26-2009).]

My take on this is, two people with bigger than average egos were involved, and that had much to do with the problem.

Gates has been a pretty colorful (no pun intended) character during his career. He's brilliant and knows it. He has had on-going issues with the Harvard administration and pretty much wants to call the shots in his life. That's nothing new for academics. I'm like that, myself, and have paid a price for arrogance more than once.

Police in general have a lot of authority, due to the nature of the job. Sometimes, when they're presented with difficult situations, they appear to act like they're "strong-arming" people, when there is a real possibility that they're simply in over their heads. They resort to being control freaks, and that doesn't work very well with a man like Gates, who has made the news many times for not just automatically rolling over and taking things as they are dealt.

Neither thought the situation through, and tempers flared.

There's no question racisim still exists. The protests, sit-ins and riots are mostly gone, but the issues are still there; they just surfaces in different ways.

It is impossible to tell the degree to which racism enterted into the picture, and pretty naive to think that it wasn't a part of this conflict...what about the neighbor who called the police? And then there is the old truism...bad news makes good copy...so there's the whole media sensationalism issue. But, I think mostly, two good folks lost their composure and things got out of hand.

The challenge is, take care of the situation, apologize where necessary, but be careful to not make it into something it probably wasn't.

And, I think the Obama "teaching incident" reference is pretty dead on.

Thanks, Squeak, for such a well thought out, reasoned approach to a very serious issue.

Russ




[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 07-28-2009).]

What's more interesting Russ is that now that more information has come out about the actual call (including the released 911 audio) is that the (1st party) to the call didn't mention anything about two black men with back packs.., and was clearly heard saying she was unsure of their ethnicity.

What's so interesting about it is the woman who called (didn't even want to call in the first place) she wasn't from the neighborhood but placed the call after repeated requests from an elderly woman who DOES live in the neighborhood.

I think both Gate's and the officer got out of line.., and tempers on both sides got heated.

I think this case is an excellent example of what happens when CITIZENS profile eachother and based on paranoid stereotypes abuse their local Police Departments by placing these calls. It puts the Police in a bad spot because they just respond to the call.

Do Police Officers profile..., ABSOLUTELY! We know it's wrong and shouldn't happen.., but I don't think this issue with Gate's and the Mass. Police Department was a case of "Police Profiling". Here we have a woman who (didn't live in the neighborhood) place a call to the Police based on a paranoid elderly woman who lived in the neighborhood.

It's interesting over the years that you live in a neighborhood and you look back and ask yourself the question "Do I know my neighbors, and do they really know me?"

It has become appallingly apparent how many citizens of this nation do not know that a police officer can indeed issue a Lawful Order -- and that the citizen must comply with said Lawful Order at the time.

Or, to put it in other words, "You don't hold court on the street."

Be patient, take it to the courtroom, where the judge is very likely to favor the side of the citizen if the citizen did no wrong.

Never "argue" with the officer in the street, regardless of that officer's apparent position in the thing or whether or not you believe the officer's action(s) to be illegal or not. The officer is holding all the cards at that point in time.

Or, as we used to say to each other back when I was in LE, "the reason our badges are round and not the old sheriff's star is that the points on that star hurt a lot worse when a judge and lawyer shove that badge up yerass in the courtroom!"

I am an african american.

I, too, have been accused of much the same thing that Officer Crowley is being accused of.

It is actually a bit worse for a black cop, you wouldn't believe the epithets and accusations that get thrown at you by "your own" people sometimes -- and all you are doing is YOUR JOB AS IT IS DEFINED.

That said, I have also experienced being pulled over by a bad cop who was into the "driving while black" thang.

I took his mouthy crap out there on the street, received his traffic ticket, -- and waited until my day in court.

His badge ended up residing in his superior's desk drawer for 30 days...


--Mac

Mac

You hit the nail right on the head. To much attitude out there and not enough prudence or Discretion. My dad was a police Officer thru the 50's & 60s' and loved the Job. I'm sure he wouldn't be crazy about it today.

Funny thing is, if you find your self in a bad situation the blue uniform is sure a welcome sight.

Thanks for the insights

Jerry