Hi Bill.

There's always two sides to every story but if you search YouTube for interviews on Sicko he always comes up as the guy fighting for the people. Take this video for example.

They try to say he is not telling the truth, but then listen to what he says. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKoN40K7mA&feature=fvw

He might not do things the way everyone agrees with, but the guy does seem to have his heart in the right place. It's too big a subject for me to take sides and I will only ever know a fraction of what you guys do since it's your country and not mine. All I can say is that I hope everyone in America agrees on the fact that the system is not perfect and there is a lot that can be done to move America up that list. People should not die if they cannot afford health care.

37th place for one of the greatest nation on the planet tells me that there is something very wrong with that system. If there is one thing I have learned about America though is that anything is possible. You guys put a man on the moon for crying out loud. If you can overcome those odds surly you can fix the medical care issues.

My only fear is that the type of system your trying to fix is a private system. A company does not put a person before profit. A company is run on pure logic designed to do one thing and one thing only which is to make a profit and to increase that profit each year.

Needless to say I think you guys have a hard hill to climb. Your the only Country in the Western world I know of with a private health care system.

Regards
James

Here's a follow up to the clip I posted above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR2U_SAWHdQ

I'm with James on this one.

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Steering clear of the uninsured: How some city hospitals are moving away from the poor
http://journalism.cuny.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=hm
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This is actually what was shown in Michael Moore's movie as well. So it's definitely profit before people.

Any hospital or physician would be sued in Taiwan. In fact, just last week the government announced that any medical institution that turns away those that've contracted the H1N1 virus will be heavily fined.

Regards

Taike

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 09-18-2009).]

If I were to make the case against universal health care I suppose I could take a page from some of the Tea Party attendees and channel Ayn Rand for a few minutes, lol. The hard core argument against could be this:

Those people with health care in the USA haven't somehow, lifted themselves up via education, industriousness or perhaps good fortune. They have earned the quality health care. Those people who have not improved themselves are unable to afford coverage. In short, improve yourself, earn a handsome living and you too can have health care...Fail to educate yourself, toil as a common laborer, you'll get what you get...

Mind you, I utterly disagree with the above. I heard a protester at the DC Tea party saying the above. He literally had a US flag in one hand and a Bible in the other. I can buy that thinking for large screen TVs, fancy cars, nice clothes and big houses. I believe Health Care is a right, not a privilege. Everyone should have it...

Many in the US have wrapped themselves in both the Flag and the Bible but in my eyes behave in such an Un-American and Non Christian way its amazing.

Its not my place to judge anyone but there is some hypocrisy. The conservatives cozied up to the religious right sometime ago yet both camps are curiously quiet when it comes to letting their fellow brothers & sisters in Christ receive health care similar to what they often have. Medicare is great for seniors 65 and older, but if you propose it for someone 64, well now you're trampling on the Constitution. HOW DARE YOU??? They call that Socialism, Communism and a few other "ism's" I can't remember.

We have goofballs taking guns to our town hall meetings on health care and even to appearances that President Obama makes. They do so claiming its their constitutional right to do so and if anyone disagrees with them they'll have to pry it from their cold, dead fingers.

I am perfectly fine with someone rejected HR 3200 because of actual content of the Bill. Same for the new Baucus Bill. But there's too much ideology firing up the far right and I personally fear that someone will make a serious attempt on Obama's life.

We're pretty screwed up over here in a great many ways, lol...I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but we've really gummed some things up badly, guys...

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 09-18-2009).]

Not in the US of A.

Doesn't work that way, we have the First Amendment to the Constitution which guarantees freedom of speech.

Oprah Winfrey Show is just another sad and sordid case of misinformation and disinformation.


--Mac

Apparently, at least for the moment, it will be ME.

I just received a composite billing that amounts to, *drumroll* $104,598.75 from the hospital.

Needless to say, I don't have it, am in negotiations on how to work that out as I type.

But my point is this: I GOT THE VERY BEST OF HEALTHCARE WHEN I NEEDED IT, REGARDLESS.

And the proof of that is that I am still alive.

My flesh-eating bacteria infection was indeed classified as, "Life Threatening" -- and I spent a week and a half in ICU (Intensive Care Unit) over this malady.

I was NOT turned away, service was NOT refused.

Yet there are politicians out there claiming that to be the case.

Meanwhile, there are signs posted at every entrance to that hospital explaining that no person shall be turned away due to financial ability to pay, whatsoever. That is currently coded into law.

Therefore, those politicians making that claim must be flat out LYING.

And they are.


--Mac

Well, that is still pending. Right now they are billing ME. Blood from a stone, and all that. Not too good for my credit rating at the moment, but I gotta say it beats the hell out of a casket. I'll survive and the Lord will find a way.

Maybe they will have to list me as a "write off". The system is prepared for those instances, actually. Happens all the time. This is one of the beautiful things about the private insurance system, the fact that all monies are invested into a pool that is then used to pay for expenses, NOT the direct amount of money paid by the insured.



Look, I'm no deadbeat, for over 4 decades I maintained health insurance payments. It is one of those ironies of life that I never really needed to take advantage of the insurance coverage to such a demanding level until last November, when, in a situation where the falling economy left me laid off and between jobs, the disaster of disease struck. However, for those years that I paid into the system, I'm sure they made enough money off of me to pay for the defaulted bills of many others. Besides that, the insurance companies were INVESTING the monies I'd sent them and at the standard return rate of 12% per annum, plus the "rule of 9" that applies to such investments, they still made a profit. And then some.



We GET a lot more, too. So do those industrialized countries, in the form of new treatments devised here in the US, new medicines discovered and marketed here, research and development, etc.



I invite you to visit any general nonprivate hospital and read the sign posted at the ER door, by federal law. It disagrees with that.

Do you know that the video of the man with the AR-15 rifle over his shoulder and the sidearm, at the rally in Arizona, which the mainstream media showed only the torso shot of, was a BLACK man?

MSNBC, CNN, etc. CROPPED the full video so that nobody could see the man's head nor hands. They also had to LOOP a small section repeatdedly to get a long enough segment to show while they reported on "white" racists bringing guns to teaparties and Obama being in danger.

The full video is easily found in places like YouTube, you can see for yourself.

He was standing on the Obama side of the street, too, incidentally.

The disengenuous nature being used by those in favor of universal healthcare is the most disturbing part of all this and is the reason that many of us are extremely skeptical concerning the issue.

I'm being too nice. Disengenuous my a$$, there are outright lies being propagated.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance,

--Mac

Hospitals are required by law to treat those patients, correct. But the story doesn't end there, does it? What if, God forbid, it turns bad? What if they decide your patient profile doesn't fit just right, so they're going to squeeze you hard for every penny you owe them? The choices you'd likely have would be pretty harsh ones-ones that you probably shouldn't have to make.

Once in the Hospital system, patients are directed towards different practices based on their insurance status. You feel you got great care...terrific. But did you? Perhaps you did, perhaps you didn't. Unless you're a HC professional, you'd never know.

Hospitals can't survive financially with too many cases of treating the uninsured. They have to recoup the revenues somewhere. Non profits will cover it through additional donations, public hospitals will cover it through Gov't subsidies and private hospitals will recover it in their own way.

According to Dr. Carter, the health systems analyst, the US HC System produces lower outcomes in almost every metric used to compare systems. Infant mortality, life expectancy, cost, access, etc....we do badly on and pay more than ANY OTHER COUNTRY. This is also supported by studies from the World Health Organisation, Kaiser Family Foundation and others...

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 09-19-2009).]

Not sure what you mean by "we get a lot more, too."

Yes, people are not turned away from Hospitals for treatment, yet that doesn't solve any problems. My wife is currently an infusion nurse. If patients have good insurance they go to a private practice for their treatments...usually....the ins. co. will allow all recommended treatments. For those without good coverage, they go to the infusion clinic where they are processed as medicare/medicaid patients. Too often these are people who have tried to buy private health insurance, but have been denied or seen their coverage terminated because of various questionable reasons. They won't get the same exact treatment that those with ins. do.

Regarding the guy with the gun at the Obama rally. I usually watch CNN, as opposed to Fox or MSNBC and I remember watching it in the afternoon with Rick Sanchez...So, yes I knew he was a black man. I also know he was in attendance at the preachers sermon the day before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwfdaYuy1k&feature=related

I've also heard several former secret service personnel agree that threats against the Pres. are up significantly from any previous records.

The videos of the slave images with Obama in chains, among others at recent Tea Parties-especially the DC one, are pretty racist. Other cartoons and images of recent weeks don't reflect well on any of the participants. I also think that some of the RW rhetoric is inflammatory and possibly provoking some part of this behavior.

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 09-19-2009).]