> ----- original message-----
artaher15@yahoo.es
Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:49 PM
To:yamaha-psr-styles@yahoogroups.com
Is PSR2000 demo made on PSR2000 itself?
>
> Hi,yesterday I played PSR2000 at a store. First of all, I listened
> the demo, and I liked very much the beautiful piano sound.
> Afterwards, when demo is finished, I played piano... but... What a
> difference!!! Demo's piano voice was a lot better.
>
> It seemeed to me another piano sound at all, and I don't understand.
> Why demo's piano sound is so better?? Perhaps demo is not made on
> PSR2000? Perhaps on a 9000pro?
>
> Artaher


Hi,

About the best piano sound discussion, if PSR 2000 has or not a good piano
sound, I also made some investigations. First, the PSR 2000 has two demos
for piano sound: one is from the demo button, choosing the live! strings
demo, where the introduction is played by the piano voice; another is the
small demo that PSR 2000 has for all voices - when choosing a voice, press
the 8th button below the display. Surely we all agree that the piano sound
that come from these two demos are so real that we think it's a real grand
piano playing. When we try to play the piano voice we will be disappointed
because we are disable to get the same real piano sound ??!!
First, it is necessary to say that, for absolutely sure, the piano
that demos play is exactly the GrandPiano voice (first voice) of PSR 2000.
But, as Simon Williams said, it was played by a professional
pianist, or using their technics how to play correctly a piano - the touch,
the velocity and pressure of the fingers, the correct way to play chords in
a piano, the arpeggiato technics, etc, etc, even using lightweight keys
(like 2000 has), we need to play as they were weighted.
Other detail of great importance is the correct DSPs and EQ
settings. I verified that Michael Bedesem had followed a good way to improve
the piano sound. As Michael found on him Registration 8 file, at the mixing
console display, increasing the DSP Stage2 to 40 or 42, to set the EQ Low
and High to near of 100, may be changing the filter Harmonics to near of 80
(I prefer to maintain the original 64), I think we get a sound very close to
the piano sound we hear from a pianist CD recorder through the home Hi Fi
sound system.
To arrive to this conclusion, I first went to hear some CD(s) with
classical pianists playing. Not comparing with other keyboards piano sound,
as this may change deeply our feeling of the real thing.

Regards
Carlos Rodrigues

I am absolutely convinced that when creating these demos, Yamaha uses the same synth engine that the keyboard has but with

1. external instruments more capable of expressing the feel of the real instrument, and

2. superb professional engineering via external sequencer.

I'm sure that Yamaha creates its styles and demos with 88 weighted key digital pianos and midi guitars and midi brass and wind controllers.

I'm also sure that they use sequencing programs like XG works and computer sequencing programs.

There's nothing wrong with doing this to make a demo. We are free, if we have the same resources, to make demos of similar quality, as the PSR2000 has a synth engine capable of creating these sounds.

Larry

And those Yamaha studio musicians !!

It would be nice if you could find out "How they Do it". Lets Face it, how many people with Arrangers, no matter how good they are, can create a sequence as GOOD as the inbuilt ones???.

I would like to know what type of sequencing software is involved, and their special techniques that they use. When I press the Demo button on the top arrangers (yamaha 9000 Pro, Technics KN6500 etc), I know that this wil be for listening pleasure only, and I can never achieve the same result....or can I ...

Let us have the Same tools they have at there disposel, and maybe we could produce professional work on our computers like the "People who Create the Demo's".
Its like you never hear about these pro's', and that it is THEM, AND THEM ALONE THAT ONLY PRODUCE TOP CLASS DEMOS....it seems

As for the inbuilt demo's Rodrigues, I downloaded the Yamaha PSR2000's demo's, and also the Yamaha Pro 9000 Demos', and they sounded EXACTLY the same!..but surely they aren't the same are they? - if so, what the point in paying 3 times the price for a keyboard that has very similar sounds...and styles?. (the Sampler & other features apart of course).

16 MB of rom on the PSR2000 48MB on the Pro 9000 there has to be something different (considering there are just about the same amount of sounds on the PSR2000 as well).

NR


[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 12-05-2001).]

Well the extra cost is for lot of things..
sampling
stereo synth enigine
build quality
plug in boards
harmony
hard drives
out puts
keys
.... on and on..

Great sounds do NOT guarentee a great arrangement. I know many great players that cannot make professional arrangements. You need to have an ear for THAT end of the business. Engineering, producing and arranging - these are a whole separate art form. Don't get discouraged if you don't sound like the demos - ther is a lot going on that the players' fingers NEVER see.

I think what people need to understand is how much work actually goes into some of these demos... Like others have already said they use all sorts of programs for making them. They sound so good because they are produced in a top quality professional studio with highly trained techs and musicians. Just about a year ago I spoke with a Yamaha tech about a problem I was having with a keyboard, and I asked him would I ever get the board to sound as good as the demos.. and he said, "with the proper software and in depth knowledge on music theory and structure, anyone can get their keyboards to sound like the demos.." He also stated that one of the main reasons these demos sound so good is because the techs are also masters of step recording.

Squeak

OK, when discussing piano sound, I have to give my 2cents about it.

First, my brother owns PSR740. The piano sounds OK. When I played PSR2000PRO at the dealer (and mind you, also motif sounded the same as PSR2000PRO... at least to my ears), it sounded like the piano on PSR740!!! I do not know, I do like the piano sound, but there is something I do not like about it.

But sounds are opinion. I was recording for my sister on SK880 and I thought it had better piano than PSR740 and then I switched to PSR740, and she said, "Now this is the piano."

I do not understand why Yamaha would not place the sound of P80 on PSR2000pro or motif? Could it be that they played the demo on P80? (I did not hear the demo, why would I?)

The piano is one of the most difficult acoustic instruments to reproduce (via digital sampling), partly because of it's wide tonal range, but also because it has complex harmonic overtones which give every piano a unique character and sound. Capturing all the rich hamonic overtones is difficult to achieve and a continuing challenge for keyboard manufacterers.

On the subject of piano sounds on the PSR2000: I was surprised (shocked?) on 'how much' the 'sound' can differ, depending on the output source (internal speakers vs external PA). Michael Bedesem's customized PSR2000 piano registrations (1-8) is an excellent case in point. Each registration uses the same basic piano sample, but each with different efx type, filter, and eq settings. It must be noted that the sound sample itself (attack decay, etc) was not edited. When playing the 8 different piano custom registrations thru the internal speakers, I thought that reg #2 & #8 sounded very impressive like a real acoustic grand piano sounds. This is a far cry from the lack luster sound of the Yamaha factory version you hear if you just selected the 'Grand Piano' patch when demoing at the music store. I then played the same piano registrations (#2 & #8) thru my PA (EVSxA100's) and was shocked to discover that it sounded terrible. Interestingly, registrations #6 & #7 (which incidently, sounded bad thru the PSR2000's internal speakers) sounded superb thru my PA setup. What this points out is that not only is sound subjective, but that it can also sound dramatically different depending on the output source. Another important point to make is that different types of sampled pianos sounds work best for different types of musical situations. A brighter piano might be required to cut thru a heavy mix, while a mellower sound might be more appropriate for a small combo setting (drums/bass). It's important not to get locked into thinking there is just one perfect piano sound. Instead, experiment and find the best piano sound for a given musical situation.
- Scott http://scottyee.com

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 12-06-2001).]

The other thing to keep in mind is that twenty years ago those of us who wanted to play (real) piano in public would have to be content with whatever instrument they had available, whether we liked its sound or not and whether it was in tune or not quite - we would not think about bringing a real piano with us. At least now you can have predictability with your instrument and sound setup.

As to how the demo was made - I'd rather not know. There are many musicians who have a better technique than I do, and I would hate to have Yamaha tell me that the demo was recorded by the folks who are better musicians (and/or better recording whizes) than I am. I will settle for Yamaha's assurance that they use the instrument being demoed, and beyond that I don't care.

Regards,
Alex