Probably, most of you know this already, but I just figured it out. I have been frustrated with the lack of expression on my PSR-8000. Of course, this has more to do with the player than the instrument. Still, I have generated more feeling on other instruments. I do not want to limit "expression" to any one thing, but controlling the timbre of a sustained note is pretty important. Aftertouch is useful for this, but it is subtle on the PSR-8000 and absent on lower end synths.

The PSR-8000 allows three right-hand voices. It has a foot controller input that can be assigned to any combination of voices. By assigning the foot controller to one right hand voice I can vary its contribution to the overall right-hand sound as I am sustaining a note.

This allows some very appealing effects with some combinations of voices. For example, I play a "crunch guitar" without foot control and a "feedback guitar" with foot control. The crunch guitar plays as you would expect, but I can swell-in feedback at will. One type of combination is to use a solo instrument without foot control with a similar ensemble (or section) sound with foot control. This arrangement allows the fullness of a sound to be varied in real time. More generally, pad sounds can be controlled with the foot controller to vary the timbre of a lead sound.

I would like to hear if others are doing this and, if so, what sound combinations are particularly useful. Anyway, it is fun finding new ways to enjoy an instrument!

Clif

Uncle Dave, Dejavu

Thanks, Uncle Dave, I plan to try your suggestions tonite.

On my non-arranger synths, I get similar control with aftertouch. I think this might be possible on the PSR8k by programming custom voices. However, the foot-controller approach you have been "pioneering" allows expression with all the voices.

[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 08-27-2000).]

I've been doing this for some time also. A few years ago I used two keyboards plus two modules. I had piano on one module, strings or organ on the other, then the top keyboard (a DX7) for lead sounds. All the bottom keyboard did was play styles and control a drum machine. Now you can do all that with one keyboard.
One thing I liked about the Roland G800 when I had it, was the capability to assign plus and minus values to the volume pedal. You could assign one sound to full on, and another to full off. Then you could get any combination of volumes by moving the foot pedal.
Some day we'll have the perfect machine. It's not here yet, but we've come a long way way.
Don

Don, I can see how being able to assign negative values to the foot controller would help with expression. Being able to assign negative values to aftertouch would also be high on my list of improvements for my arranger. Instead of just bringing in more sound, we could cross fade from one sound to another. Yamaha, if you are listening . . .

By the way, I tried the sound combinations recommended by Uncle Dave, and I do like the expression that can be achieved by them. Still, I find my foot is rather clumsy for controlling musical nuances. I wish my PSR8k could do more with aftertouch.

By the way, how is the Solton X1 when it comes to realtime control of timbre?



[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 08-28-2000).]

When it comes to realtime control, nothing is better than the Roland G's. That includes the X1..Fran

I absolutely agree, where I would like to add sticking to the real text in the topic,
You need weighted/semi-weighted keys" to express while playing!
I definately would have a look to the new Yamaha!
Fred

Freddynl brings up a different point. When I think of expression, I think of continuous controllers like aftertouch, pitch-bend wheels, modulation wheels, volume pedals, etc. I don't think weighted keys have much to do with continuous control. However, Piano players play with expression without continuous controllers. So is it that weighted keys provide more precise control of key velocity and thus more expression for piano-type playing?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
[B] No - weighted, or not all keys transmit the same number values for velocity. They just feel different. The weight & feel of the keys is simply a preferance. I know players that can get so much more expression out of their UN-weighted keys because of the light feel, and quick action. It's all a matter of taste. Continuous controllers add another element to your playing that can't be done with ten fingers -

Yes, for ME it does make a difference, that's why I wrote ADD!
I control velocity and sustain(footswitch) by playing loud and soft, where the combination of just these two elements give the "expression".
I tried to do the same on unweighted Keys and I never was able to do this! It allways sounds LOUD. And unweighted keys gives me no feeling at all.
I guess this will have to do something with the manner of playing, hence even PCKeyboards never live longer as a couple of years at my officedesk, so I guess it's me.

Uncle Dave might well be right that it is just a matter of adjusting to different keypads. However, it also may not be the case that it is "simply a matter of mathematics". It is also a matter of ergonomics. A person's fine motor control may be more precise with weighted keys than with unweighted keys. Let us say that an average person only has sufficient control to distinguish 5 ranges of 128 velocity values when unweighted keys are used, but has sufficient control to distinguish 10 ranges with weighted keys. Then most people would be able to play more expressively (ignoring continuous controllers) with weighted keys. Note that it is because people do not have the precise control that midi offers that different weightings might allow different amounts of control.

Note that foot switches and foot pedals tend to offer much more resistance than keys. This allows our clumsy feet more control than they would have if they had the same resistance as unweighted keys. Likewise, weighted keys might make it easier for "clumsy" fingers to control the keys.

One other note. Weighted versus unweighted may not be the issue, ultimately. It might be unweighted keys with stiffer springs would be more subject to fine control. The main point is that it would only be a matter of mathematics if our fine motor control matched the level of precision offered by the instrument. I am sorry, this is probably a little to abstract to be of interest to many people here.