At least in comparison to workstations.

If the answer is the usual standard reason, can’t the manufacturers do any thing to increase the arranger market to the more modern crowd?

Or are they just contented in making a keyboard for a small market and thus creating a reason for them pricing it high and not having it displayed in stores for persons to demo.

I do not agree 100%, here is why, you have Arrangers Low end starting at $170.00 USD, you have the Casios CTK and WK, then the Yamahas PSRE403, DGX series, YPGs and PSR.
I know that this boards are not in the same boat of the worksations but then again, there is a price point that arrangers start, and the worstations are far from this range.
In the Mid range is what I think is a little soft, some YPGs, from Roland GW7 and the EXR, E and from Korg the PA50and the higher end the PA-80 and PA1Xs, The E80-60-G70 from ROland, the Gem Genesys, and then the Ketrons SD1-5 and XD series.
So, we have arranger keyboards from less than $200.00 up to a $4500.00 range.
Now, the worksations that start around $1,000.00 the Korg TR and the new Roland JUNO G, the Yamaha's MO's are a little over that. The Korg PA 50 and Yamaha PSR 1500 are in the One grand range.
In the high end, they are almost even, a Fantom X8 around 3 grand, and so is the Motif ES8, the Tritons just got a price drop (Extreme 6,7,8)and the Korg Oasis start around $6,000.00-8,000.00(61-88keys), so this one is much higher than any PA1X Pro, G70 or Tyros2, perhaps you can get at least 2 High end arrangers for the price of one OASIS.
The arrangers that are a lot more than average, are the Wersi's, and those again, are a little hard to find-audition live, at least here in the Phoenix, Az area.

Most arrangers cost more because of the inherent cost of composing the styles, voices, and arrangements. Also, there is an onboard vocal harmonizer, hard disk recorder, large color screens, etc. etc. which does not exist in most workstations.

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

My bad.

I should have specified that I was more looking at the mid – to high-end arrangers with the best sounds and features.


Regarding the fact that arranger manufacturers have the task of creating styles, having a vocal harmonizer, hard disk recording and so on, are they really providing more than what a high-end workstation is providing?

I mean workstations have hundreds of rhythms/loops/arpeggios, they have audio recording (Roland), and they have lots of sounds, and so on.

If you were to do a comparison between keyboards from the same manufacturer (workstation and arrangers), it would be very informative.

Roland G-70 and Roland Fantum x7
Yamaha Motif ES and Yamaha Tyros 1
Korg PA1x Pro and Korg Triton Studio 76

I don't think the high price is justifiable based on the boards hardware (not at all) Especially when you consider the "hardware" of a synth.

I think the high price tag is based on (targeted market), and the obvious--consumers are "willing" to pay these prices and continue to do so. Hell why would they drop them if people are buying them at the current prices If everyone said the hell with it, and decided not to upgrade when the new models came out, we can get the prices to drop. We have the power to say we're not paying that. Of course I know we have to take into consideration arranger sales in the US vs Overseas

Take a hard look at the spec list of a Motif, Fantom, and Triton. The 61 key models sell for less than a pro arranger, but there "are" features on these boards that if the makers want--can use for high profits just as they do in the pro-arranger market.

Again think about the targeted market--If Yamaha jumped the price of a Motif ES6 up to $3,500--Holy S--t!!! I would be first in line to watch that "b--tch fest"

Some may disagree, but it's true, if we continue to pay the high price, they have no reason to drop the price. Even if the sales are lower here, it's not like they're hurting--we're just a small part of their market. They make a killing in sales overseas, low US sales don't put them in the welfare line.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-28-2006).]

double post ...

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 07-28-2006).]

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 07-28-2006).]

While I admittedly have no experience with a 'workstation' vs an arranger, to me it seems analogus to wanting a fireplace and buying the bricks and doing it yourself, or buying the bricks and hiring a bricklayer to do it for you ... If you want the styles 'pre-made' you have to pay for it ...
t.

I think that my reply to this would be a question. Almost everything in this world costs to much....(here's the question) How much to much is it? You already have a base of 1800-2000 dollars (US) for a workstation, if you begin to add the additional features of a high end arranger the answer may be easy to understand. If we are only talking about a $1000 dollar difference, I believe that you can break that down a little easier. I wont bother to go through all the items that an arranger may have in it, (I think that everyone already knows). $1000 over the 3-5 years (DNJ not included) you will probably own it, make it only $17-$28 more a month to own something that may in fact help you be a better entertainer. For me I really like to be able to just sit down at a moments notice and have the full accompaniment that an arranger can provide. In summary the buyer of any arranger has to first count the cost and consider the features that they are getting with the particular arranger that they are purchasing. I gave up on workstations several years ago. They was far to much effort required for me to really be happy with them. Like I said I like the ability to play music with full accompaniment without all the extra work.

Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts


[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 07-28-2006).]

Hi:

Arrangers comparation to workstations, is like comparing SUV with Sports cars....they are very diferent and for diferent purpose.
Worksations are design for a musician that either work for a band/home or in a studio work, you can layer secuencing, looping and sampling, depending the kind of project. The similarities you mention:

Example Korg Triton EXm in the "grooves" or almost style like that worksations have, do not have an intro/s, variations, fill ins, and/or endings, that is why is very diferent. So, you do not have "control" over this, to recall a voice (strings as an example), in the worksations is much likely that you have to call a Bank and then a "patch" number....
In the Arrangers (Korg PA1X Pro), the voices (programs or patches) are group in families of the sound, Piano, E,piano, Strings, etc.....so you do NOT have to know a band and patch number.

One great diference for a songwriter/arranger, is that you can make a midi file of an original song in matter of few minutes, a similar task in a worksation may take a few hours/days depending how familiar the user is with that particular model brand.
I use this analagy: Let's say you have a transportation company, now the diference would be if:
1.- Are you transporting Rocks, sand, material contruction.
or
2.- People. It requires a very diferent type of vehicule.

You have to deside what are you going to do, and then get the apropiate tranportation.

I believe this topic has been discussed. As far as I remember the conclusion was that with an arranger you could start making music right after you open the box - it is simple and intuitive (speaking of Yam). Synths, on the other hand, are far too complex. You are required to make patterns, sequences... Maybe synths sell bad and thats why their price is low. I dont know.

George