squeak_D has covered what I was about to say. Having worked in Manufacture you look at what a similar product from a competitor is priced at plus how much you think the customer would be happy to pay. The initial costing comes into this equation but the answer at the end of the day is make as much profit as you can.
Who would ever have thought people would paying £3000 for a Tyros.

What other purchase can you make for $1000 and use to make money - with little to no talent?

zuki

See $1,000 (in my opinion) is very a reasonable purchase--given the product can compete. However, $3,000 and up--well we all have our own opinion on that, but hey that's business, and capitolism for ya. If you can get people to pay over 3 grand, why stop

Hell they could sell a $1,000 PSR-1500 for $3,000 if they wanted to--It's in the advertising. Why do you think big advertising companies make so much money. All tricks of the trade. The only thing that amazes me is how the government isn't coming down on the countless companies distorting the facts--and intentionally (and obviously) misleading consumers, yet no one is nailing them for it. It's all about profits.., why bust them if they're just telling little lies Doing that may put them out of business, and results in lost tax revenue. The trend is clearly "don't get involved until someone either gets hurt or dies" (sad, sad).
Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-28-2006).]

I'M THINKING ... A SHOVEL


D.

Has anyone priced a decent sax trumpet or trombone lately.
In comparison, the keyboards are a steal, and you can play more than 1 note at a time and you can sound like a sax, and a trumpet, and a trombone, and all combined, etc, etc...

That's where I think we may be looking at it differently. I don't believe that an arranger is a workstation with additional features. At least not yet. The workstation has features that an arranger does not have and an arranger has features that a workstation does not have. So if a workstation cost $1800, an arranger should not cost twice that amount. Just because an arranger has styles (and those styles may be valuable to some persons) is no reason for arrangers to cost so much. The arpeggios and loops are just as valuable to workstation users as styles are to arranger players.And remember that a workstation has features that an arranger does not have for example, advance sequencer, and semi advance sampler. Arrangers and workstations are both comparable and thus there should not be that big price difference. Yes arguably they are for different uses, but that still does not justify the big price difference. See I think that arranger manufacturers are going around in circles. They are making arrangers for the people whom they think would be willing to pay the high price (as shown by comments in this thread) which is a very small percentage of the keyboard market. Then they say that the arranger market is very small so that is why they have to have these high prices. I don't know why they are not trying to expand their market. To me the two barriers to more people buying arrangers is the price and the lack of modern styles and sounds. But then again they probably don't want to do any thing to affect workstation sales. And, if people are willing to pay the high price for arrangers, they will just do it until they can not do it any more.

Agree. See This topic

Posted by: to the genesys

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The workstation has features that an arranger does not have and an arranger has features that a workstation does not have. So if a workstation cost $1800, an arranger should not cost twice that amount. Just because an arranger has styles (and those styles may be valuable to some persons) is no reason for arrangers to cost so much. The arpeggios and loops are just as valuable to workstation users as styles are to arranger players.And remember that a workstation has features that an arranger does not have for example, advance sequencer, and semi advance sampler. Arrangers and workstations are both comparable and thus there should not be that big price difference. Yes arguably they are for different uses, but that still does not justify the big price difference.
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EXACTLY! Why should the features on an arranger not found on a synth or vise versa justify such a HUGE price difference. Our preset patterns, chord templates (memories), full blown samplers, ect are just as important to us as styles are to arranger players.

So really what jsutifies the major price difference. What makes the arranger so much more special in that it needs a higher price? Arranger players needs and functions are important to them as the functions on synths are to synth players.

I stills say it's targeted market. If you pay the high price, and continue to do it, they have NO reason to drop them to make them more affordable.

Granted there are the high price synths, but mark my words..., Let Roland, Yamaha, and Korg jack the price of their current 61 key flagships up to $3,500 and see what happens..... We wouldn't accept that at all and fight them, yet pro arranger players are so willing to accept the $3,000 and up price tag on their models--for 61 keys none the less too. I think it should upset pro arranger owners. You should feel like they're sticking it to you because they are. They're using your targeted groups to get a higher profit. That's not right.

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-28-2006).]

Interesting toptic "to the genesys".

Regarding price I have this to say for whatever it's worth.

Manufacturers price their products a lot of times on the "supply and demand" principle. Arrangers are coming into their own here in the States and have already been established in Europe for many years. So they are finally getting recognition and they are becoming a hot item for pro's and hobbyists alike. When you finally get major artists and other high level professional figures buying high end Arrangers for their Studios or jobs and they are getting rave reviews in MI magazines and they are now starting to become more and more an option from musicians that are of the traditional mindset. And consequently they are selling more and more of them here in the States and even more so in Europe.

For instance, let's take the Tyros. Yamaha originally priced the Tyros at $2,499 at all major MI stores throughout the U.S.A. when it first came out.

When Yamaha saw that the Tyros was popular with consumers and they started selling briskly it didn't take Yamaha long to raise the price to $2,999. That's $500 more than they were getting which is quite a substantial increase. The Tyros stayed at that price for years and only until the Tyros2 debuted did Yamaha {temporarily} reduce the price of the Tyros back down to $2,499. But I noticed recently the price is now back up to $2,999 at Guitar Center. Why?? Well one reason is GC doesn't stock the Tyros2 to compete with the Tyros for sales. So Yamaha has conveniently raised the price again because the Tyros is probably selling just as well at $2,999 as it did at $2,499. And since the Tyros is a hot item on the market right now, Yamaha is taking advantage of this and has marked it back up because of: you guessed it , - "supply and demand" and people are willing to pay the price.

If there is a big demand for ANY consumer product the manufacturer more often than not raises the price - sometimes 'considerably'.

If high-end Arrangers were not hot items in the market we would see their prices drop much lower than they are right now in my opinion. Case in point: 3 1/2 years ago the Tyros came out which in my opinion was the first time an Arranger's sounds were considered up to snuff with the PRO level Workstations in the eyes of many people. And when they started selling like hot cakes in the States and in Europe Yamaha suddenly realized the gold mine they were sitting on and quickly raised the price accordingly as I stated earlier.

It's not so much the cost of hardware or styles as some have suggested but the fact that these new high end Arrangers are becoming hot items to the public and many don't seem to mind shelling out more and more bucks for them. The manufacturers are probably bemusing to themselves that the saying: "If you build them they will come" is fascinatingly becoming a reality for them with the like of the Tyros/2, etc. And they are seizing the opportunity by pricing these new high end (or even mid-range) Arrangers through the roof. And as long as people are willing to pay these outlandishly high prices for these companies high end or mid-range Arranger products they will gladly continue to oblige you and price them at the same high levels thank you.

My 2¢

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-28-2006).]

Mike excellent donation of your 2 cents I agree with everything you said. Isn't it crazy how the price dropped on the original T1, then shot back up again, and people are willing to pay it.

Those prices can and will come down, but it's going to take the action of the "consumers". The funny thing is it won't even cost us money All consumers have to do, is choose not to upgrade to the newer models that will clearly be priced just the same or higher. Seriously where do you draw the line?

There are so many here making a good living performing with PSR-2000's, 3000's, Tyros 1's, Ketron SD1's and so on. When the Tyros 3 comes out are those performing with these current models going to lose business? If you're rocking the house with a PSR-3000, will the lack of a Tyros 2 make you just "shake" the house and not "rock" it?

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-28-2006).]