Hi Carlo
That’s a unique Abacus you have, it is the first Duo deluxe version I have seen that has a 25 Note Pedal board, (Normally reserved for the Pro version) it normally comes with a 17 Note Pedal board, plus additional speakers and 2 X 80w amplification to supplement the 2 X 30w, 4 speaker system in the abacus itself. (Does the 25 Note Pedal board replace the speakers and amplification)
Have a good Christmas, and Happy Playing

Bill

Diki wrote:
In the meantime, would you be willing to go out and do a full-on gig tomorrow, solo, with just the MS? If not, please don't try to tell us that it is a complete arranger......

Ensnareyou wrote:
The Oasys sequencer and hard disk recorder aren't incomplete, they are actually more advanced than any offering from Yamaha and most other manufacturers. I was just saying that for my needs, the Oasys isn't what it should be in an $8K+ keyboard. I expect full DAW style editing (similar to my Fairlight), numerous sequencer tracks (not just 16, 64 would be better), and microscope editing which it lacks. I'm sure Korg is going to change things in a future OS update but for now, it is what it is.

So..Oasys seem not complete, only a 16 tracks DAW that still seem not stable when you record the full 16 tracks and theu still under 16bit audio system.
Software updates every 6 months and still you are waiting for new features and bug fix...
Why they then are selling the Oasys from 2 years now that is not complete and stable?
Was not better waiting another 1 years untill they can merge a nice audio-midi sequencer unlimited audio/midi tracks like have the MS? http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/images/rosegarden-1.4.0-2.png
Or a powerfull DAW like the Ardour? http://ardour.org/files/main-screenshot-big.png
Same if for the PA-X pro, how many years was this keyboards in the market? And why they continue release new OS updates with bug fix too? http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/products/pa1x_soft.html?en


Yes..we know..the story is always the same..
Big company can sell wht they want and you buy for what the offer.. but from small company like Lionstracs, Wersi..ALL the features possible MUST be included (including 10k $ VST and sounds library) and of course FULL working or the product mean is not complete.

Look this old video from Musikmesse 2005: http://lionstracs.com/demo/video/wkx76jazz2.wmv
stll there the MS was working with the OLD 2 years OS release, of course was not complete like we have now but still was working and we was able to sell too.

Anyway guys.... HAPPY Christmas and good new year!
( Enjoy now the Christmas and Happy Playing....forget for some days the new keyboards...)

Hallo Bill,

I have a regular Abacus Deluxe, with a midified 25-note pedalboard (Spectra-pedalboard with buildin MIDI) attached.
So basically, now it is a Abacus Deluxe Pro.

I have also the OAS7 software running, with a prerelease of the new Open Art Arranger.
I can now load any Yamaha-style. I have all the Tyros-2 styles loaded in, and they sound amazing. There is a new soundbank with all the Megavoices from Tyros-2, and some new Drumkits, to play the styles. Therefore, the Styles are now playing very, very good.

Best Regards,
Greetings from Belgium.

Carlo.




[This message has been edited by Ketron User (edited 12-25-2006).]

Here is a small video dmo of the Ardour DAW on the MS display.
We can open different ardour windows on each Desktop ( up to 12 virtual desktop)
Ardour is unlimited audio tracks recorder in realtime, is like a clone of Pro Tools. http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/video/2006/Ardour.wmv

With all due respect but what you have written is completely incorrect.

I have completed many demos and full tracks using the Oasys's sequencer and HD recorder using all sixteen track and I have never had any problems with instability casued by the sequencer or the fact I am using all the tracks available.

Also, any software has bugs. Sp, yes, there have bneen upgrades every six months but those upgrades ahev not just been about fixing bugs. They have also been about adding incredible new features and sound engines like the STR-1 or the Korg MS20/Polysix emulations to name a few.

The problem with 'workstations' that are based on a PC running VST for example.. is that the chances of bugs caused by interations with other programs is vastly increased. Let's also not forget to mention that every VST is updated because of bugs found in it or new features being added but again, the situation can be so much more complex because of the interactive nature of all these different programs, written by different companies on different setups.

I understand you are trying to promote your own product and that's fair enough, given the professional competition you face out there, but let's make sure you quote 'real' facts not just speculation or guess work ok?

Thanks!

So, anyhow....

The Sequencer in the Oasys needs work. Couldn't agree more with that statement but it is quite usable as it is and I have used it frequently and regularly to create some very detailed and complex tracks. Could it be better? Heck yes! I would imagine that Korg is busily working away on an upgrade for the Sequencer as that would seem to be the 'weak' link in what is otherwise an amazing keyboard. Having said that, most people seem to want to use their Computer based DAW of choice anyhow, as that is what they are used to using, to create music. However, I still think that a better built in sequencer would be a huge bonus for the Oasys.

Also, your comment about using Giga for all your Oasys sounds, shows that you have no clue as to what the Oasys is all about.

Example, an STR-1 guitar sound. Not a sample but a modelled sound which means the sound changes constantly, depending on how you play it, how it interacts with other notes you play and so on. No amount of sampling will ever capture that type of modelled sound. You will just get a sterile, stagnent version of the sort of fluid, motion filled, evolving, interactive sounds the Oasys can produce.

For me, the Oasys is all about the 'sound' it produces. There is simply nothing else out there that compares and trying to compare the Oasys to the Wersi or the Neko is simply like comparing apples with oranges. They are not the same or even similar, except for the fact they are keyboards.

That's not to say the Neko, for example, is a bad keyboard because it is not. I had one for about a month on a free trial and I enjoyed it a great deal. My only issue with it, and the reason why I didn't buy it, was because it did nothing I couldn't do with my PC and keyboard for a lot cheaper a price.

The Oasys on the other hand, is something totally different and quite special/unique and something I cannot recreate using a PC and a lot of software synths.

Once you sit down and play an Oasys for any length of time (not just an hour or so but for a few days at least) you suddenly 'get' what it is all about. Going back to using other keyboards is like driving a Ferrari and then having to go back to driving a Chevy S10 truck! You just want to be back behind the wheel of that Ferrari again and nothing else will do.

Just try one out for at the very least, several hours and then see if you still feel the same about the sounds your other keyboards produce.

------------------
The Art Of Sound Website

[This message has been edited by TheArtOfSound (edited 01-27-2007).]

Hi The Art of Sound
I don’t think Lionstracs was actually criticizing the OASYS (Trying to explain things in a language that is not native to you, causes all sorts of problems) but is pointing out the features that the Mediastation has over the OASYS, which includes being able to use whatever manufactures sound generation system you require. (The OASYS is limited to its own sound system)
Adding a computer to your keyboard gives you a great wealth of software for you to use, unfortunately it involves a lot of work to set up, and if you are gigging a longer set-up time, (Also the more mechanical connections you have the more chance of things going wrong) in a studio this is fine as once it is set up, you don’t have to worry about it, but most people (Both Home and Pro users) just want to switch on and play, and this is what Wersi and other open keyboards give you. (All the power and software of a computer, with the ease of use of a Switch On and Play system)
Sound modelling is the future (All the new Hammond Organs use sound modelling to reproduce the old Mechanical Tone wheel sound) however up until recently, computers have not been powerful enough to achieve this using multiple layers. (In truth even the latest CPUs have limitations when it comes to playing multiple and highly complex modelled sounds simultaneously)
Sampling sidestepped the problem of CPU power by making recordings of the original instrument, and playing that sound back when the use presses the key. (The more samples that are taken, the more of the nuances of the instrument can be captured, (And the more memory required, hence the use of disc streaming) and this is why the larger sample sets have a stunning sound quality, that becomes almost indistinguishable from the real instrument.
Finale point to note, the latest version of the Wersi OAS system (OAS 7) has now gone beyond just using its own sampled sounds, and 3rd party manufactured VST instruments etc, (Although they are still a great part of its arsenal) by incorporating multiple sound synthesis and real time effects. As an example if you play an FM Piano sound, it is no longer a sample that you hear (Samples are available if required) but is produced exactly the same as if it was being played and produced on a Yamaha FM Synth, (DX 7 for instance) likewise effects like Wha Wha, Flanger etc are now produced in real time. (Not samples of the effects)
I hope the above clarifies things, and I also hope that manufactures continue to push the technology boundaries well into the future.
BTW, is there any chance that the Karma engine will be made available as a fully featured VST?

Bill

I own the Wersi, Lionstracs, and Oasys and I can tell you that the Oasys doesn't sound any better than the other two, especially the Wersi. The synth features of the Oasys are its stronger points, the sequencer and audio recorder are in my opinion oversights on Korg's part as both are essentially worthless to me. Sure I can use them, but why put a mediocre sequencer/recorder in an $8500 instrument? Korg needs to do some serious software updates to change that otherwise the Oasys is nothing more than a glorified synth, not a full blown workstation.

If you've never played the Wersi in person you won't know its capabilities but I can assure you they far exceed the Oasys. I can do 24 bit stereo sampling, FM synthesis, Wavetable synthesis, Analog Emulation, B4 with real time drawbars, MP3/MP4/WAV/Video playback, in addition to the Wersi factory sounds (which are great) and practically any VST that I'd want to use. The Wersi also has Cubase for audio recording and sequencing as well as Wersi's own software sequencer which is quite intuitive. Should I feel the need to use another sequencer or digital recording program its as simple as loading it into the Wersi. You simply can't do that with the Oasys. Your analogy that they are the Chevy S10 and the Oasys is a Ferrari is way off point.

As I've said, the Oasys as a synth is great with KARMA being one of its primary functions and for that its awesome. Still for the money spent I don't think the Oasys is worth the asking price unless Korg can seriously do some software magic and make it infinitely better. That's just my opinion and of course yours may vary greatly from mine.

FWIW... I've spent many months (not a few hours or days) with the Oasys and have compared it side by side with the Wersi and Lionstracs so my perpective is much different than those who have never seen all three let alone owned all three.

So, Ensnareyou, finally, an honest assessment about the Oasys from an actual owner. However, because of your insistence that no-one have an opinion about it until they have either owned it or used one extensively, I guess we are supposed to ignore you?

Your defense of these high priced keyboards has always consisted of 'you can't comment unless you have owned one, and citing others criticisms still doesn't validate your opinion'.

So what, exactly, are we to make of your comments?

Now that the gloves are off you in reference to the Oasys, how about a truly objective review of the Mediastation as an ARRANGER, rather than just as a VST playback device? Now that the defense of unfamiliarity is moot?

My opposition to the Mediastation came about simply from listening to factory and user demos, and from reading comments from users LIKE YOURSELF that posted some negative impressions. But you invariably shot me down with 'you haven't played one, you should not comment'.

Well, would I be as wrong to hold an opinion about the Oasys based on your previous post? Or is it just YOUR opinion that should carry some weight? Do you understand where I am coming from, here? If no-one should form an opinion until they have played one of these EXTREMELY rare and expensive beasts (the Oasys is by FAR the easiest one to find in the US), why do you post any comment on them at all? We are, apparently, supposed to ignore it......

So perhaps we could all just back down a little, and start to get some opinion and advice other than, 'buy one and find out for yourself' which is unlikely, given the poor nature of all the demos I've heard so far. I've posted about my rig, to demonstrate that I DO have the cash for one of these, if they prove to have value for money (a lot of money should mean a lot of value for it!), but so far you haven't come up with anything like as critical review of the MS or the Wersi as you have of the Oasys.

You can't possibly expect us to believe that either of these have NO flaws at all..... It would be honest of you to post a factual description of how you feel about the MS and Wersi, warts and all.

We have to rely on members like yourself that actually own these rare instruments - you can't find them in stores (at least, anywhere close to 99% of the readership here). It would be a great service if you actually posted a full, in depth review, with strong AND weak points explained.

Then our membership (and myself!) would have more than just conjecture to guide them.....

Diki,

All that I am trying to say is that without trying the keyboard in person you have no real clue as to what its weaknesses, strengths, or capabilities are. I would never comment on something I've not used personally because I'd be speaking without knowing anything of it. My opinion is at least based upon use rather than a guess but take it for whatever it's worth to you. I've seen far too many people make comments on an arranger/workstation that they've never used, owned, seen, etc. Listening to a few online demo's does not make one an expert on how and instrument sounds or what it can do.

I've purchased many instruments sight unseen with only recommendations from friends, clients, or other users. Whether or not the instrument will work for me is still an unknown until I try it out in person. I tried the Oasys out extensively before I bought it knowing full well the sequencer and audio recorder was sub par. Korg R&D told me that they were working on an upgrade but if that never materializes then the Oasys is nothing more than a great synth for me. An expensive synth, but a very nice synth, not a workstation studio as it is marketed.

I don't think my comments on the Wersi and Mediastation have been all positive, every instrument has its weakness. The Wersi is definitely in a league all its own but Lionstracs is catching up. I know that in time Domenik will make the Mediastation so powerful only it and the Wersi will be the pinnacle of what's available... until such time that Yamaha, Roland, or Korg want to seriously consider offering an open ended instrument. The Oasys is not as open ended as the Wersi or Lionstracs.

I don't use many canned styles so for me I don't care how many styles an arranger comes with. The Mediastation has lots of factory styles and you can build your own or import others as well if needed. No arranger can claim to have fantastic styles for every genre so I don't judge and instrument based upon that alone. Sound wise the GIGA and Synth sounds of the MS are very good with many GIGA sounds being exceptional. I hate most GM/GS sounds on any arranger but the Lionstracs GM/GS sounds are no worse than those in any other arranger. It all comes down to personal choice, what you like I may hate and vice versa. At least with the Wersi and Lionstracs I can import any sound I need or sample it. In addition I can add VST's if necessary which is a major plus. It all really depends on what you need, that's all.

Ensnareyou, thanks for your comments.

The only comments I've made about the MS have come from reading users posts, and reading the manufacturer's website and listening to demos. To do any more is impossible, short of buying one!

Unless what I have read is not factual, I think I'm justified in using it as a basis for opinion. Having already owned several VST instruments, I feel I don't have to play a MS to know what these things sound like, and their usefulness.

As to the styles.... when you say you don't used canned styles, does this mean you have to edit all the onboard styles, or you create all your own styles? Or purchase 3rd party ones?

You obviously are aware that the way you use your MS is VERY different from what most of our membership's way is.... Most of us expect that even the lowliest arranger, yet alone the top-of-the-line ones, come with at least enough styles onboard to cover most gig situations, and that those styles won't need a LOT of work just to sound adequate for public use. And most of us expect the most expensive arrangers to have the best styles.

Would you be prepared to say that, VST abilities aside, that the ARRANGER side of the MS, it's styles and arranger OS (apparently, it doesn't even have OTS abilities, yet), can compare to even a mid-line PSR3000 or E60, yet alone a T2 or E80?

You DO have a Wersi for comparison, but I imagine that you may have also at least tried a T2 or G70 out of curiosity. We honestly ARE interested in your opinion as to how well this side stacks up to the competition. This is how the majority of people interested in a MS are going to use it, primarily.

Unfortunately, the factory demos, something that just about every other manufacturer think is of paramount importance, don't sound very impressive, even up against some mid-line arrangers. So we need to rely on users like yourself to give us an honest opinion. So far, user opinions haven't been that glowing. You may have a different one, and we'd like to hear it.

You have a Wersi, obviously know your way around an arranger, have very high standards, so how about a no holds barred review on the MS AS AN ARRANGER....?