I know Squeak and Dave use one. I'm having plenty of trouble with Cakewalk. It took 2 days just to get sound on playback figured out.

Then I'm holding a sax and trying to work the mouse. Everytime I need to change something, I have to wait for a new screen and the list goes on and on.

And trying to figure out how to assign effects is like unbelieveable. There has to be an easier way than software eh?

If not I'll have to stick with my mini disk, I guess!
Boo

I Have a nice Sony Mini disc deck sale? Hmmmm? Trade? maybe for a portable walkman style CD/Mp3 player?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-10-2004).]

Boo, I recently purchased a Korg D1200mkII
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=D1200MKII

and highly recommend it for it's compact size, ease of use, and most of all for it's excellent sound quality. I recently recorded the song "Cattle Call" exclusively with it. You can listen to it on my website. http://scottyee.com . The Korg D1200mkII is very simple to operate. Hit record and away you. There's even a dedicated Korg Recorder forum www.korgstudios.com available if you have questions. Very friendly & helpful people there. I too was using the Cakewalk Sonar but have found the Korg D1200mkII more convenient when I just want to make & record music without the complications of the computer getting in the way of my music making creativity. Low street price, under $999. - Scott

bric
I use the Tascam SX 1LE. To me h/d recorders are about 100% easier to deal with....push record and go.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Boo, I have a Boss BR532 I've hardly used. I've also got a small mini-disk N707 to records well, when I can remember how to use it.

Dnj - is that a deck style minidisk?

BTW the Boss is always for sale.

Yes its a Sony deck style mini disc player recorder I'll email ya a pic of it....I could use a CD/Mp3 walkman

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-10-2004).]

Sax by itself is hard to get the true sound while recording. The technique you see where the guy has the mic right in the bell is wrong.

I read in a very good publication that the mic should be above the bell at the middle of the horn because sound comes from all of the holes in the housing also. I tried that today and it was a big improvement.

I tried to ad some reverb in Cakewalk it was way too much and then I couldn't figure out how to get it back to where it was.

With a digital recorder all I have to do is turn a knob for balance, volume, reverb or whatever right, no?

I just got the Mackie a while back and the Carvin amp just a couple weeks ago so I'll have to get maybe the Zoom MRS4 or Fostex MR8 I guess.

Boy if I could sell that scaffold. You guys don't know any bricklayers or stucco folks. Get me a sale I'll give ya $200. Dave'll probably have this sold by morning.

Then on some of the forums it seems it's may be a bit of trouble getting the stuff into the computer to burn a CD.

How much an hour do studios in your area charge?

Boo, Hard Disk recorders are fine but I wouldn't give up on Soft Synth recorders so quickly. Cakewalk in particular has a very crowded User interface IMO and trying to find your way around its many features can be daunting as you have found out. There are other Software based recorders or multi-track recorders that you may find easier to use. You should be able to download Demo versions of other Soft Synths like Cakewalk and try them out to see which one[s] suit you best. I can tell you first hand that Sound Forge has an extremely easy to use interface and everything is laid out very logically and its very uncluttered. If you need a Multi-track recorder - (Sound Forge is simply a 2 track "Stereo or Mono" recorder) - then you may want to consider Sony Vegas 4.0. 4.0 is the newest version, Sony having acquired it and all other Sonic Foundry software programs when Sony bought them out. Vegas is a multi-track recorder albeit a rather expensive one.

There is so much you can do with a Soft Synth recorder or Soft Synth Multi-track recorder that you can't do with a Hard Disk recorder. There are enormous amounts of Tools and Editing options on a software based program that Hard Disk recorders can't touch. You just need to find the program that is to your liking and has an easy to use and navigate interface. If you do decide to go hardware based there are many fine options to fit your needs though.

Best regards,
Mike

Boo,
Just use the 'undo' feature in your sequencer prog to take the reverb (or any applied effect) off that you did not like. As long as you have not saved the cut in between you can 'apply' and 'undo' as many effects as you like until you get a cut you are happy with.

With a bit of perseverence I'm sure you will get the hang of it in the end. I'm no expert by any means but have learned to do what I need to just using a sequencer and the pc. The experts might say I'm doing it all wrong but as long as we are happy with the end result it does not really matter how we do it

I take it from your posts that you are mixing midi with audio? Why not just do the whole lot in audio to save sync probs? Just run the line out of your keyboard to the pc and let the keyboard play the sequence. Record it in audio on your pc sequencer. Then do another audio track for your sax but obviously this time with your mic connected up instead of the keyboard.

Like all this music stuff we do, half the fun is the learning bit ... followed by the buzz when we can finally do something we could not do last week.

Best wishes
Tony

I have a Yamaha AW16G DAW. It was under $1000 and I love it. I use it almost exclusively now to record my acoustic accordion through it's 1/4" jack. There is almost no noise and it is a breeze to get something recorded and burned to a CD. I messed around with Sonar for a while and got tired of it.

I don't like the 10,000 options of a softsynth. To me it's like drawing a picture with 10,000 crayons. You'll sit there and keep adding and keep adding and keep adding color until you've got this big ugly cluttered mess. At least that's the type of person I am. I'll tweak it until it's dead.

With my DAW, I record, maybe add a couple of effects, maybe not, and then burn it to CD.

Hello again Boo
I'm syncing 2 D8's.
Works for me.. I burn via Mackie mix to a stand alone Pioneer PDR-W739. Just my thots...L

Mike,
Software sequencers are sequencers, not soft synths. Soft synths are instruments in the form of software.

I disagree that you can do SO much more than with h/d's. I have the Tascam and Sonar, Sound Forge, Adobe, Acid, Power Tracks and a few others. It really depends on which h/d recorder someone buys.

There is no doubt in my mind having run the soft seq's and h/d's for a long time, the h/d's are far more user friendly then even the simplest of software. Certainly far less hassle as well. One plugs their inputs in and pushes record....done deal. No software is that easy, by the time one interfaces up and drivers, and things running in the backround that interfere with analog recording.

My Tascam has 128 track midi recording as well, but therein is what usually seperates h/d's from softwares, recording midi.

Terry


------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-10-2004).]

After speaking with boo and getting a better understanding about what he wants to do, I'd have to say that a digital recorder is really what Boo is looking for. It seems to me that he wants something that has a lot of hands on control and functions that are controlled by panel knobs or easily accessed through a menu.. He also doesn't want to bust his wallet on this one. Personally I think the Zoom MRS-4 would work great for what he wants to do, and if he could afford it the Fostex MR8 would be a great choice for him as well. He could still burn CD's with either unit.. He just has to get the appropriate hardware and software which is fairly inexpensive.

Squeak

I just ordered the AKAI DPS24, after selling my AKAI DPS16.

Bt if you are lookin gfor something small, korg, zoom, boss we'll do for you.

boo, after finding computer recording to be beyond my patience, I bought an Akai DPS-16 and just love it. It is out of date now but still works great. I can get tracks down while I still have the idea in my head, instead of cursing at the computer! While all digital recorders have some learning curve, most new ones are a breeze to use compared to software programs. And the price/value ratio just keeps getting better. It would be hard to go wrong with any of the new offerings. Korg and Yamaha have some great products at moderate prices, and for a bit more, the Akai DPS-24 is a dream machine. Good luck and have fun.
Bill

Your right Terry. My mistake. I meant to say Soft Sequencer but apparently I wasn't paying attention to my writing and wrote something else. Thinking one thing and writing another. Oh well, thanks again for correcting my error.

Best regards,
Mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trtjazz:
[B]
>>I disagree that you can do SO much more than with h/d's. I have the Tascam and Sonar, Sound Forge, Adobe, Acid, Power Tracks and a few others. It really depends on which h/d recorder someone buys.

"Terry, I'm talking about the Tools and Editing abilities in Sofware Sequencers. Sure, it may be simple to lay down tracks in a h/d recorder but what then? Can you edit the the .wav file to your hearts content if need be like you can with a good Soft Sequencer? Am I missing something here? And that $3,000 Tascam is 10 times the cost of Sound Forge and over 4 times the cost of Vegas 4.0 yet they essentially do the same thing except the Midi plus they have the added benefit of all the advanced file Editing Options and Tools, etc."

>>There is no doubt in my mind having run the soft seq's and h/d's for a long time, the h/d's are far more user friendly then even the simplest of software. Certainly far less hassle as well. One plugs their inputs in and pushes record....done deal. No software is that easy, by the time one interfaces up and drivers, and things running in the backround that interfere with analog recording.

"I agree that if one wants to run Software Sequencers first off they will need to have a good fast Computer plus if at all possible to run Windows XP as the OS. But if your computer is up to snuff and you have all the required gear to get you set up, then Soft Sequencers are a dream come true IMO and definitely a must have for advanced file editing possibilities, etc., etc." After you get the hang of Software Recorders and Multi-track recorders like Sound Forge and Vegas, etc., then it really is a breeze to record to. Dare I say, as easy as your Tascam is.

>>My Tascam has 128 track midi recording as well, but therein is what usually seperates h/d's from softwares, recording midi.

I use my Tyros' internal Sequencer for recording Midi. With 16 tracks available I can sound like a whole Orchestra or even a Big Band. I do want to start delving into Midi Software Sequencers like Cakewalk and I even have an earlier version of Cakewalk (6.0). Now, finding the time to do it is another story. But as the old addage goes - You have to make the time (referring to me).

Best regards,
Mike

Tony,

I've been recording right along with Cakewalk playing the midi file and me with headphones to prevent the speakers from bleeding into the sax mic.

I do have some midi files on the HD in my keyboard that I can use and I have some of those very good sequences I did with the i30.

I never thought of using my keyboard and recording it Audio. I guess it will record all of the accompaniment parts on one track in Cakewalk?

Then as you said I could go back and record the Sax Audio on another track and that should solve my synchronization problem.

I do have Cakewalk support and a sax buddy from Australia helping. He's a sax guy and understands all of this stuff.

But I can't think of any reason that what you suggested won't work Tony.

I'm so glad to find others that seem to think that software recording is a pain in the neck. That is encouraging to me. I thought I was too old to learn.

I'm going to give this another try recording everything Audio and see what Cakewalk support comes up with.

I may get the Zoom MRS4 or the Fostex MR8. If I can't figure one of them out I won't be out a bunch of money.

Mike,

May be my computer isn't up to snuff? I never thought of that.

I have the 533 MHz Celeron,15GHD, 256SyncDRAM, 128 KB L2Cache 66MHz system bus.
What do you think?

thanks for all the help,
Boo

[This message has been edited by brickboo (edited 02-10-2004).]

Personally I like to use stand alone HD recorders in a musical situation. They are simply more portable, stable and easier to use in any live music setting.

Even though much can be done on the HD recorders themselves you can always take the recorder home and transfer tracks to your computer for any editing that would be difficult or impossible to perform on the recorder itself. Just make sure you are setup to transfer data to your PC if necessary.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brickboo:
[B]Mike,

May be my computer isn't up to snuff? I never thought of that.

I have the 533 MHz Celeron,15GHD, 256SyncDRAM, 128 KB L2Cache 66MHz system bus.
What do you think?

thanks for all the help,
Boo

Boo, I think you need a faster computer. Celeron chips are Intels econo line. Much like Chevy is GM's econo line. You need a much faster chip too. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a Pentium 4. You can get a slower P4 for pretty cheap. But with that P4 you will need a motherboard that supports the P4 chipset. I would also get a speedy Hard Drive Boo. I'm guessing the one you have now is probably a slow poke older 5,400 RPM drive although I could be mistaken of course. Also you should think about at least doubling your RAM to 512 MB. If your not into getting your hands dirty opening up the computer and installing the stuff yourself you can always take it to a reputable Computer Service Center and have them do it. Or if you know of a person or relative that could do it, then that would be even better cause you could save some bucks. My advice is if you decide to upgrade your computer make sure you diligently check out and research the products you intend to get. For instance; when looking for a new motherboard check out different online Hardware Sites that will give you the skinny on different motherboard brands and models and give you reviews of them so you can determine which is the best one for price/performance, etc. A good site to check out motherboards, hard drives, RAM, CPU's, etc., is Tom's Hardware

Best regards,
Mike

Boo, I also use a stand alone recorder, the Roland VS-1680. I was only using it very basically at the time... but you can hear the results on the '2002' songs on my website.

I'm hoping to record a few more songs with it in the next few months. Of course, I'll have to go back to the manual...

Rich

I also use a stand alone HDD-recorder : The AW16G Yammie.
After all tracks are recorded I send the mix to PC for mastering.
Pro's for HD-recorders :
Independent
Easy to transport/move
Just push button and go !
Very quiet (no fans)
huge capacity of HD
dedicated DSP's (need no CPU-load)
real faders
very stable/reliable
no (expensive) plugins needed
... etc.

Boo,

If you want simplicity with multi-track recording software, just download a copy of Audicity's latest program and you'll be absolutely amazed. Just a couple buttons to select from, all the expression features anyone really needs, and it's free.

I would have thought this was a dead subject after Terry posted his computer recorded and external recorded identical songs for everyone to vote on. Obviously, some folks have very short memories.

The results were clearly in favor of the the software recorded by a heavy margin. Nothing complicated about this type of poll--it's what you hear--kinda' like music. If what you hear don't sound good to your ears, then you use something that does sound good--it just makes good, common sense.

There's nothing complex about recording songs using your computer. If this were the case, then I would be in a world of trouble. Try the Audicity program, and if you get in trouble, email me and I'll walk you through the problems over the phone.

Good Luck,

Gary

I know where there's an Akai DPS16, a new display model, for $199.
Is that a good deal?
DonM

Mike,
The Tascam really is not 10x's going the software route....did you forget the pc or laptop cost? I have less $ in my Tascam than I do in my laptop,interface and software.

Yes you can edit wav. files to your hearts content with the h/d recorder, pretty much most of the more pro ones anyway.

We do still disagree on ease of use with less glitches. I have both and have run both extensively. A h/d system is easier, faster and has the added advantage of a tactile control surface.

With the midi, again I have all three the Tyros, Tascam and software. The Tascam is still the easiest to record to for midi and far more flexibility and 8x's as many tracks.

I'm not saying at all that software is junk or not powerful, just the opposite. All I contend is for ease of use the h/d recorder is easier, faster and no interferring glitches from the other things that computers do. It is a stand alone dedicated unit that it's only job is to record music.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

$199.00??? Of course is a good deal, if you don't buy it let me know. I'll buy it.

I'll cancel my order fo rthe DPS24..



[This message has been edited by ViLo (edited 02-11-2004).]

My mistake. It is a DPS 12 with no hd.
They are out of 16s.
Still sounds pretty good.
DonM

Tony,

I tried recording a sequence from the i30 it sounds great in Cakewalk. But then I armed another track to record the sax part, but the sequence from track 1 won't play back while trying to record so as to be able to play sax and record.

I'm sure I can record everything at one time with no trouble, but like my mini disk I'd be stuck with all of the mistakes.

I want to punch-in and punch-out to correct flaws in my recording.

I finally heard from Cakewalk. It seems my version 7 doesn't have the capacity to drag and drop the audio file to sync with the midi file.

I can't believe there's no way to move either the midi file or the audio to get it together. He says check for updated drivers for my sound card that might help.

Anyone heard of Crystal sound Fusion? That's what it shows at the midi device screen on BIAB and Cakewalk. I type that in search and come up with nothing.

The stand alone is looking better and better.
Whoa is me again,
Boo
Maybe I'm not living a good life!!

Boo, Trust me the MRS-4 or MR8 would work great for what you want to do. Plus the price is fair on both recorders.

Squeak

Boo,
It may be that you need to go to the options page or sound options or audio settings in cakewalk and make sure you have the box checked for ALLOW PLAYBACK WHILST RECORDING. .... I don't use cakewalk so I can't tell you how to do it step by step but maybe someone here who uses cakewalk can. I use cool edit pro (I could tell you how to do it in that )

I had exactly the same problem once and that is what it was.

If that fails to work then your soundcard is not capable of playback whilst recording but as long as your pc is relatively modern it should be ok.

Hope this helps
Tony

Boo,

Regarding miking the sax, the best way I've found for alto and tenor is to use a pair of microphones. One is placed near the bell while the other is placed relatively close to the body of the instrument. Then try to mix a good balance between these two using two separate inputs of the mixer or recording device. If you can get a couple of good clip-on mics then it offers you a little more freedom to move around as you play.

If you just mic the bell you'll notice a sharp increase in level (possibly to the point of distortion) when you play low C, B and Bbs (closing the entire tube).

I ran across a simple little article with some diagrams which may be of help.
http://www.marysden.com/mic%20placement.htm