I know there is thread after thread of ‘why I chose and love this keyboard over that one’, but I felt we can always use another! I remember reading reviews and forums, playing the boards for hours and researching to no end while I was looking to buy a top end arranger. I had narrowed it down a long time ago to the big three from Korg, Yamaha and Roland. I always enjoyed reading the bantering back and forth as to why this one is better than that one. Even though I felt most of them to be fairly subjective, there was merit and truth behind them all, because obviously they are all great in there own ways. I have owned a G-70 for some time now and I thought I would give you my experience that led me to choose that board. Now, I want to make it very clear that I am not of the opinion that one keyboard is ultimately superior to another and that my tastes/needs/wants apply to everybody. Because, if I had the money, I’d own all three. Instead, I want to relay what I was looking for, and why I found it with the G-70. Hopefully, this may be of assistance to anyone who was in my, or a similar situation.

Firstly, a bit about myself. I am not a professional musician. I have never been paid a dollar for any notes I’ve ever played. Who knows, I may in the future, but that’s not me. I do however feel that music is my life. It is the greatest diversion, the greatest expression of praise and worship that I have, and I’m sure you would all agree that it can be the greatest expression of ourselves. I’ve been playing organs and keyboards all my life, and more recently become accustom to piano (though by no means am I a pianist) and have been playing them in church since I was about twelve years old. I’ve only ever owned an older Hammond Spinet organ and a piano, so most of my keyboard experience was on the church’s keyboards. So, I felt it was time to get one for myself. I wanted one that I would be able to use at church and home. I had to have no compromises when it came to the organs. Being an organist first and foremost, this was most important. I know that a keyboard won’t replace a classical organ. It would be glorious to have a full Allen or Rodgers in my basement, but a little unrealistic for me now. But I wanted at least some great church organ settings. I also wanted great Hammond/Leslie emulation. I knew that this was possible in a keyboard. Keyfeel and touch were important too. I needed something with organ like touch that I could really fly around on and be able to convincingly use for piano applications too. That’s another thing…I didn’t want to have to settle for a mediocre piano sound. A good array of synth, string, brass, orchestra etc. sounds was also important. I wanted an arranger for home use, something with inspirational styles that I could play along with, and use for my own compositions. The arranger wouldn’t be needed at church because I play in a praise and worship band.

When comparing keyboards, the organ parts was a no brainer. The G-70 as far as I’m concerned blew everyone else away. The PA1X has come good patches and the TII’s organs have come a long ways since even the T1, but IMHO they don’t match Roland. The only noticeably better Hammond/Leslie emulation I’ve played on a keyboard was on the new Hammonds, and even then, it’s completely subjective. I find it interesting that everyone has been trying to exactly copy the sound of an organ that was made decades ago as if it were the standard by which all others are measured. Now don’t get me wrong, you can’t beat that sound, but I think the new clones have merits and sounds unique to them that I think we should appreciate. Maybe not now, but perhaps in fifty years, we will be trying to copy the sound that those ’clonewheels’ made back in the day. Nevertheless, with the G-70’s dedicated organ mode, I can turn up the leakage, maybe some overdrive and, voila, this thing screams. Will it replace a B3? In a band setting especially, 99% of the population would never know the difference. Then the classic organ sounds… while again this is not going to replace a full console organ, but when those thunderous sounds are needed, especially with some layering, the G-70 shines.

As far as other sounds go, there are positives and negatives here. I think the Roland’s piano is beautiful, but so are the Korg’s and Yammy’s. I figured here that if I was going to buy a digital piano, I’d buy the Roland RD700SX. I wasn’t going to base my decision on the sound of the stock piano. Here though, is where key feel and touch came into effect for me. If I’m going to pay an arm and a leg for a keyboard, I don’t want it to feel like a toy. I feel that this is another area where Roland is the clear winner. The keybed is great. The weight is a perfect blend of synth/organ, and I have definitely become a better pianist because of it. The more I play it, the more I like it. It is the best I’ve felt, and every time I play something else now, I miss the G-70 for this. And 76 keys. I have decided that I had to have at least 76, particularly for piano playing. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve heard some stellar piano performances on the TII, but my style of playing ran out of room on the TII. This is also a must for a three way split on the keyboard.

Strings/brass/synth etc., I’d give the edge to the PA1X and Tyros. However, with some tweaking of sounds and layering, the G-70 comes very close to sounding like a full orchestra. Nevertheless, I decided I wasn’t going to base my decision on how thick the stock strings sounded. As far as synths go, have you ever noticed how hard it is to find a real genuine sounding, thick, edgey Oberheim synth sound? I actually think that Technics had some really good sounds here. But again, with the way we can modify and layer sounds, most boards can come pretty close.

I wasn’t to picky when it came to the styles. This obviously comes down to taste, but I personally preferred more styles on the Tyros II. However, the G-70 has some great ones too and with all the tools to mess with the styles as I see fit, this was not much of a deciding factor.

Functionality was another determining factor for me. I found my way around the G-70 the fastest of all. Especially in church, when I’d use the organ mode one minute, then switch over to strings or pads, it was very intuitive and easy. I’m constantly using the sliders for easy real time control. Polyphony also came into play. When I’m using a really involved style and sounds, I often experience note drop out, even with the G-70 (which has 128 voice, along with the TII). So the Korg with only 62, didn’t cut it. I would have been disappointed with 62 when I knew that I could have gotten one with 128 (256 like the big Ateliers would be nice). I also was not impressed with the layout of the Korg. I got frustrated with it after I had played the Roland and Yamaha first and found them so natural. I do like the touch screens (easy for dummies - see what you want, reach out and touch it!)

All in all, what sold me on the Roland were the following: organs, 76 keys and their feel, polyphony and ease of use. If Yamaha had better organs and more keys, I’d have gotten that one. If Korg had a better interface, 128 voice polyphony and again, some better organs with 9 footage sliders, perhaps I’d have gotten that one. If I was getting this for church use only, then as I mentioned I wouldn’t need an aranger, I’d get the RD700SX and the Hammond XK-3, (or the Roland VK-8 which is almost as good and much cheaper). But as I said, I wanted an all in one machine that I could use everywhere…this is arranger world baby!

So, I hope this helps, or at least gave you something to do for half an hour while you read it. I hope I haven’t offended anybody, because as I’ve said this is my opinion based on what I need. And that’s just it…it’s mine, and an opinion. I’ve come to respect a lot of you here because obviously you know what you’re talking about. Isn’t it fun to talk keyboards? I sure don’t get the chance to walk up to somebody on the street and say, hey, how ‘bout those Super Articulation Voices on the TII, or what do you think of the action of my modulation/bender lever??!

I’d sure love to hear from you all, especially if there are any other church musicians out there. I’m sure you’d agree that it’s a whole different world to play for a congregation. You know that you never do the same song the same way twice, you’re always changing dynamics, speeds, repetitions etc. It’s sure fun to be able to take some chances and make some mistakes if need be, because if you’re heart is in the right place, somehow what you put into the keyboard, or at least what you think you’re putting into the keyboard, is not always what comes out. It’s not about me.

-Jon

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-For the Glory of His Name

Jon,

Thanks for your post. All I can say is that it would be a privilege to have you as a member of my worship team! I appreciate your attitude.

Tim

Good way to describe the G-70. I've found the same experiences especially with the 76 keys allowing me to "playout" and less limiting than 61 note arrangers. I highly recommend adding the Roland SRX-06 "COMPLETE ORCHESTRAL" sound bank and you will have strings and church organ settings to die for.

I must say I found your post informative and friendly. It is the type of writing that builds a forum. I found no reason to protect anything – or to stand and say this is better than that one. Nice, thank you Jon.

I do feel the touch of a God loving man in your words, that's special.

John C.

Jon... nice post, thanks.

Glenn

I am also using my arranger in praise and worship situations. I have meetings at my home quite often almost on a weekly basis.

Yamaha PSR3000 so far have fit the bill nicely. Lately I upgraded my playing skills and was able to sound like a full band utilizing various sounds in the right way such as electric guitars, brass, synth, etc on top of the usual pianos and bass.

Canadian,

I know what you mean about the Roland B3 Emulation. I use a Roland VK8m module with my Korg Triton and Tyros 2 and people who hear it swear it is a Hammond.

For someone who has never played a Roland G70, I found your review informative and helpful.

Thanks!


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Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

Jon,
I hope many of my potential customers who have never been into my store and are reluctant to buy the G70 because of negatives they've read on this forum, get a chance to read your well stated review. The past 2 days I've been coresponding with a Synthzone customer from Brazil who would like to either buy a G70 or PA1XPRO from my store by way of a family member of his who live in Philadeliphia. I have given him pro's and con's of each and concluded that the G70 would be the best for his uses. Now, because he trusts my opinion but has read so many negatives, he is having a hard time deciding. Perhaps you review will help him.
It's been really interesting to see the faces on musicians who make it into my store and get a chance to actually hear and try the G70. I almost always get the same response from everyone, which is "is this really the same keyboard so many have disliked?". I think you've nailed the pluses of this keyboard. Those that have wished for more styles have either made their own, downloaded new ones, or purchased from style software companies. What you point out as strengths, I couldn't agree more with you. Thanks for your well written observations.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, Ca.

This, George is the crux of the matter...........
So few people ever get to play a G70 because of Roland's decision to market them through the very poorly equipped and FAR less numerous CK division, rather than the regular MI division that marketed the G1000 so effectively, that all they have to rely on is the VERY partisan user reviews they see here (and ANYONE that buys a keyboard THAT expensive, unheard, must have ones of steel!).

FINALLY, a well stated review that isn't immediately drowned in a chorus of 'My Tyros rocks, your choice sucks' from the peanut gallery (mostly, as far as I can tell, hobbyists that want something out of the box that makes them sound good without effort, rather than a keyboard they can put their own stamp on and tweak to the way THEY need, not what the instrument dictates). Perhaps the mention of Worship makes them pause before committing a sonic sin!!

Anyway, you are correct..... before you decide against the G70...... PLAY ONE! MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP!

Don't buy a Tyros until you've spent a couple of hours on one (and remember to try editing a Style or SMF rather than just play....... you haven't lived until you realize how easy Roland make editing......)

This is why I bought me G70.

jon,
we live in very different countries, different parts of the world. but my story is pretty much similar to yours.
i understand what you're saying about the music you play/make. music is a great vehicle for carrying your worship and also for carrying your message to people, and maybe the technical skills, even the musical skills are not the MOST important factor here.
g70 i am sure is agreat instrument for your music! keep doing what you're doing now!
oh yea... when is e60 released?

I eagerly await Roland taking the E80 electronics and putting it in a G70 form factor.

When that happens, you'll see my G70 up for sale.......... not before!

(And while they're at it, a sampler and HD wouldn't hurt - and BRING BACK THE BLOODY CHORD SEQUENCER!)

Great to hear someone is enjoying the G70. And I agree that Roland really knows how to do Organ sounds.

Having 76 keys is another huge plus also.

There are some things I wish Roland would implement on their next 76 key high end Arranger. They are = lighter package, Jazz Root Chord recognition in Accomp. mode, the ability to install a Hard Drive, a Sampler would be nice, the ability to install more than one SRX expansion card, USB 2.0 To Device AND To Host, and a lower price point.

It's interesting that you mention you would have gotten a Tyros2 if it had 76 keys. I am positive there are a multitude of other keyboardists who would do the same thing. If Yamaha kept the weight in the 30-35 lb range they would sell like hotcakes in my opinion.

Are you listening Yamaha? Would you like the extra revenue a 76 key high end Arranger would bring to the table? Or are you still in that "failed experiment" mode over the 9000PRO?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say.

Best regards,
Mike

I've got a feeling it would be difficult to make ANY really decent 76 note keybed in a case that didn't flex weigh that little. Then add in a LOT of hardware knobs, sliders, HDs and extras........

Truth is, a REALLY robust, roadworthy 76er is going to be heavy (you ever lifted a K2500?). I like a keyboard I can smack around and not have it move under me!

Ever play a Roland Fantom X7 (76 keys) or the new Korg TR 76 (76 keys)? Granted, they are not Arrangers but there is nothing on an Arranger that is different as far as weight goes that would make them heavier versus a traditional Workstation. Last time I looked the Styles and Multipads on Arrangers don't add excessive weight to it.

The Fantom X7 weighs in at 32 lbs /14.51 kg whilst the Korg TR 76 weighs in at an amazing 20.28 lbs / 9.2 kg And since composites are getting lighter AND stronger it is now possible to have a lighter keyboard and still retain the "road-worthiness" aspect of it as you say.

Also to keep these lighter keyboards from moving around on a keyboard Stand you may find putting Velcro (the kind with adhesive on the bottom of it) to the top of the Stand's corners and then accordingly align Velcro to the bottom of the keyboard and placing it upon the stand will help keep the keyboard in place while you 'smack' it around on stage, etc. There are other methods to do essentially the same thing.

PS: I realize that the Fantom X7 and Korg TR 76 don't have weighted keys, but for all except dedicated pianists most people would find their keybeds quite acceptable in my opinion.

Furthermore, adding weights to a keybed would theoretically add only an additional seven to fifteen pounds (or thereabouts) to its total weight; depending, of course, on how many 'ounces' of weight they use on each key. So, for instance; instead of the Korg TR 76 weighing 20 lbs as it now does it would weigh between 27-35 lbs (or thereabouts). >> Not bad for a fully weighted and technologically advanced 76 key Workstation huh?

The same thing would/could apply to an Arranger Workstation. We just have to convince Yammy and the others (or rather should I say - 'they have to convince themselves') go ahead and produce them.

Best regards,
Mike






[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-25-2006).]

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

I think Yamaha has it wrong!
They are asking the wrong question.

What they should be asking is if the Tyros 2 (with all the features and sounds) had 76 keys and was less than 35LBS, would you get it or would you consider another brand.

I am sure that ALL of the currant Tyros 2 owners would still get it. Since all of the hoopla about the Tyros 2 is about the sounds and styles. In addition, Yamaha would get even more sales from the people who want and need 76 keys and who absolutely would not buy a Tyros 2 in its present 61 key condition.

I can guaranty you that if 76 keys were so disliked, Roland, Lionstracks, Wersi, Korg and Ketron would not be making them.

Yamaha had a perfect chance to totally dominate the arranger market and leaving no room for the competition if the Tyros to had 76 keys. Remember it is the sounds and styles that sell the Tyros 2. Because the sounds and styles are excellent on the Tyros 2, having it weigh an extra LBS would not have decrease sales.

WHAT!!! Oh man. that would be great news, if they did this.
Starkeeper

Yes, I think a big factor to Yamaha making a 76 note high end arranger is the 'competition'. But Yamaha has to see the need or to be pressured into doing it.

As it stands now the Korg Pa1XPRO and or the Roland G70 or even the Ketron SD1+ don't present a real threat to Yamaha in terms of taking over marketshare from them. The Pa1XPRO has sold reasonably well but there are factors that keep it from being THEE 'hot item'. Likewise with the Roland G70 and Ketron SD1+. But when Korg, Roland, Ketron or whoever, produce a knock-out punch in the 76 key arena then Yamaha will take notice and act accordingly in my opinion.

The Pa1XPRO and G70 are too heavy for easy portability and that and that alone is probably the biggest drawback to both of them besides the high price tags. And Korg and also Ketron continue to miss out by limiting the polyphony on their high end arrangers even though people say the Korg has better allocation and no need to worry about notes dropping out. I'm not sure about Ketron's polyphony allocation but, either way, in today's world 62 or 64 note polyphony doesn't cut it in my opinion. A lot of keyboardists simply will not buy a Board if it has 62/64 note polyphony. Especially now that 128 note polyphony is commonplace and is actually considered the 'standard' for today.

The G70 has 128 note polyphony but the high price tag plus the weight factor and also the less than stellar reports from many of the people who played it when it first came to market with apparently obvious shortcomings all make for a sense of hesitation for the consumer on whether to get one or not. Apparently Roland has corrected a lot of the shortcomings like too much reverb in the sounds and other bugs in the OS but in my opinion it is too little too late and the hopefully big BOOM Roland was anticipating has turned into a fizzle in my opinion. So the G70 is really not a threat to Yammie.

In the meantime the Tyros with its 'measly' 61 keys is flying off the shelves and Yamaha must be as happy as a pig in a trough because of it. They are raking in the bucks and they see no need to venture into the 76 key high end arena. Why should they? They perceive NO threat from the competition and until they do there would be no need for them to step up to the plate and produce a 76 key Tyros2/3/4/5/6/7/, etc.

So in the meantime are only real hope is counting on the 'competition' to put the 'heat' on Yamaha and 'force' them into doing something they apparently now 'dread' to do, with possbily the failed experiment mentality hanging over their head with the 9000PRO a big factor. That and of course their seeing no threat to their dominance in the high end arranger market "regardless" of the number of keys their's or the competitions Boards have.

Roland's new E60 may be the spark that gets Yammie moving in the direction of a 76 key something, anything. But it would be the mid-range arena not the high-end arena. Nevertheless it would be a start and hopefully a start as well of something in the high-end market. But only if they see the 'opportunity' or are somehow made to comply because of the competition.

Best regards,
Mike

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

If the number of keys have so high impact on price it is then strange that the Tyros 2 is arround 500 Euro more expensive than the PA1X Pro and the G-70.

*****

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

Wait a minute,
The Tyros 2 cost more than the G70 and the Korg?

If that is the case, then Yamaha does not have a price argument as to why they are not making a high-end 76 key arranger.

If Yamaha’s high-end arranger (Tyros 2) is 61 keys and cost more than its comparable competition which has 76 keys, then there is really no excuse for Yamaha not to make a 76 key Tyros 2.

Yes the Tyros 2 is a great product, has great sounds and styles but so does the Roland and Korg. Each of them has features that the others do not have.


Yamaha is just not willing to make a high-end 76 key arranger.
And we know that because there is really no reason for them not to.

I don't know Ian...to me it's an over priced toy[Tyros2]...feels like one...looks like one...Compared to the Korg, the Pa1x[speakerless model] just feels and looks like a top pro arranger...and although I havn't checked out the Roland[G70], I believe it will surpass the Yamaha in quality...

I also think you get what you pay for......in my case it will not be a Tyros2

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

As I respect yours also..

Ian, I actually am not that interested in buying anything new right now[arrangers]...What I have...suits my needs.

As for a brand , I am open minded..

Korg's operating system annoys me..

Yamaha's quality of the past, give me problems, as well as the key feel..

Ketron was not user friendly enough for my variable playing style..

Genesys[Gem] lacked some sounds that I need, and was a little pricey..It was feature laden though..

Now roland, giving it's past products most likely would be my choice...probably the best Key action in the business...VK organ mode for starters...

When I feel the need to change or add to my set up,, I will travel the3 hours [one way] to check it out...For now it is not important to me....

As always we all have different views..you have expressed yours and I, mine...It's not a right or wrong thing...

*****

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

with e60 pricing somewhere close to psr3000, i see no competition for roland. yamaha should produce something pretty amazing in order to beat this. remember the new e60 is pretty much a g70 with no harmonist.
would yamaha produce a "pretty much" tyros2 below 1500 euro? and 76 keys? and well build?
i always thought yamaha was overpriced. is ok for them, the buyers made it like that, being ready to spend alot of money for average quality instruments. no way they will change this, why should they? as long as people continue to buy yamaha because they are easy to use and understand, everybody's happy. yamaha a little bit happier then buyers.

but we're out of topic by little...

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 06-26-2006).]

Probably the thing that Yamaha could drop to bring the price of a 76-er into line would be the Sampler and maybe the HD recording. In all fairness, how much usage do these get by the average user?? And how much better are alternatives?

Definitely, few pros are going to record at 16bit any more, yet alone the lack of ease compared to even a decent laptop and interface, and I can't even remember the last post about using the Tyros2's sampler........ Just how long DOES it take to load up a maxed out Tyros2 using USB??

Remember, at the time of the Tyros1's introduction, the keyboard to beat was the Roland G1000. A 76 note arranger, around 40lbs. Where Yammie got the figures that a 76-er was not popular enough to make, beats me.

Must have used the Bush team to do the counting.........