& DUAL Mp3 player also as long as the card is installed.

actually mrdave they do, the fill changes with which variation you play..My pa1xpro did. As I said some of the differences were slight, but they were different..the fill when playing vaiation 4 was different to the fill on variation 1, as was the fill on variation 1..mind you SOME of the styles did have pretty much the same fill, but they were some of the more sparse styles anyway..My only gripe was that the fills were usually too loud to suit either the previous variation or the next one. I have heard this is something that has been fixed with 3.0 Op Sys and on the PA2Xpro

Guys,
this fill thing is becoming really an issue.
Here is what I have found doing a search on Korgforums.com:

"The fills alot of the time don't fit; if you're on Variation 1 for example then the fill 'punches' in, instead of being configured for the variation, i.e. the instruments in the fill don't match the variation until you get to about variation 4, so they're kinda useless up till then, they're especially bad on slow and quiet styles sometimes, yet others seem Ok. Is there anyway to change this so that the fill changes with the variation, or will I need to make my own?

Actually, I wasn't strictly accurate. The rhythm is perfectly timed and does begin at the end of a measure, I was misled by the background; it's the instruments in the fill that's causing the problem, because they change instantly when you hit the fill button and some are vastly different to the variation, so it might be all pads for example and the instant you hit fill you get guitars, extra percussion etc etc, that doesn't blend. So I guess the question should be:

Is there any way to get fill variations, that correspond to whatever variation you're in, rather than being the same fill regardless of which variation you're using?"

"Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about when you said, the fill-in doesnt match the variation. For instance, Var 1 might only have bass, and just a simple drum rhytm, whereas Var 4 might have the full band going, and the actual fill-in is based on the full band too, so if you fill-in during Var 1, it sounds dodgy. As far as I know, unless you edit one of the 2 fill-ins to suit a certain Variation, its not possible to change it. Keyboard doesnt care what Variation you are in when you fill in. It will play the fillin the way its been recorded, regardless of what Variation you're in.


Unfortunately the Pa1X (pro) only has 2 fill-ins, besides the break, and that's too little to make all of the fills needed for most songs. Fill-in 1 in most cases is a simple one and fill-in 2 has more extended voicing. The styles are very good and lively programmed and don't bore me after three or four times repeating. But sometimes you need a clear passage to go to the chorus or bridge.
Sometimes I mute one or more acc tracks and use fill-in 2, but that's very user unfriendly. I wonder if someone has a more practical approach to make use of the limited number of fills to let them sound differently by tweaking the volumes or sounds."


"Thanks guys, the more I get into it the more I find 'useable' rather than not, it's got to be difficult to find the balance when there's 4 vars but only 2 fills, I'm getting used to it and don't actually think it'll be a problem at all when I come to tweaking my own performance settings."

So... where lies the truth?

Korg Pa 800 Fills are fine...its all about how you trigger them....I have have seen many people that CANT play correctly...hit fills at the wrong time or out of tempo because they have no rhythm.....then they blame the keyboard........

That is the point of an arranger; to make people who can not play sound good. Remember arrangers are for home users )that is what teh manufacturers tell us).

You can't sound good my friend unless you know how to play in the first place...
if you want the Keyboard to make you sound good vs your "playing ability" your off on the wrong track for sure.

I give up

Every arranger I have played, it doesn't matter one little bit WHEN you hit the button for a fill (other than too close to the end of the bar, when the fill will play in it's entirety on the NEXT bar), and it will ALWAYS be in perfect sync with the Variation. Korg's don't do that?

But it seems to me that the problem with what is reported with the fills seems to be far more a problem with how the styles are written, than how the OS triggers them (unless Donny's contention that you actually HAVE to hit them spot on rhythmically IS true). If you DO have two completely different fills for EACH variation (although those quotes seem to contradict this assumption - is there a difference in the number of fills between the PA1X and the PA2X and PA800?) this is wonderful news. BUT... if the style makers are not utilizing it, and staying with tried and tested workflow from earlier, two-fill arrangers, it won't be apparent.

But, after research from Korg's website, and the tech specs on the PA800 comes this:
Style controls: 4 Variations, 3 Fills, 3 Intros, 3 Endings, Synchro Start/Stop, Tap Tempo/Reset, Fade In/Out, Bass Inversion, Manual Bass, Tempo Lock, Memory, Accompaniment/Real Time Track Balance Volume, Accompaniment Mute, Drum Mapping, Snare & Kick Designation, Single Touch


SO... only two fills (if one is the Break/Fill) for four variations. This strikes me as VERY poor, compared to most other manufacturers (Yamaha 4 fills and a Break/Fill, Roland 6 fills, no Break/Fill but an assignable Break/Mute) and may go a VERY long way to explaining the 'jumpy' fills complaint from many users.

Two fills can't POSSIBLY get each transition to be smooth on any style that goes from a simple Var1 to a very busy Var4... That's basically ONE fill-up and ONE fill-down for the entire machine.

Me, I want even MORE than even Roland provide..! A dedicated fill for EVERY transition possible (that's 16 for a four Variation style including fill-to-same), but the thought of just two for an entire style just doesn't cut it, IMO...

I guess again its all personal preference...the PA800 fills are fine for me & MY needs....although I can understand that some have to have more & more which is quite alright if it suits Their needs....
Needs, Needs, 7 More Needs, is the catalyst for what these arrangers do ...some needs are small , some needs are big, some needs are senseless, & some needs are just egotistical fantasies for the I just have to have set. Whats on the market is what we have to choose and play the way we individually need to that will make us happy.......research it, demo it, play it, talk about it, argue about it, discuss it, brag about it, BS about it......do what right for you.....there will NEVER be just one perfect arranger for everyone.....so choose, play & be happy!

You're right Donny. There will never be a perfect arranger or one that suit everybodies personal needs or preferences. I think when a new product comes out though that we the consumer will choose to vote with our wallet on the product that most closely resembles the ideal product for our specific needs and the product that proves to be the most functional and musically cohesive. If I were thinking about purchasing a keyboard and one of the keyboards was musically consonant and the other was musically dissonant you can rest assured I would buy the one that was musically consonant. If enough people felt the same way and passed on the Pa series then maybe Korg would wake up and correct this anomaly with the fill-ins. Apparently the Pa series is selling well enough that Korg isn't willing to satisfy the rest of the buyers and potential buyers that have complained about the fill-in issue. It is possible that since the Pa series is extremely popular with Ethnic populations and sales of the Pa series are quite brisk in that area that Korg doesn't feel a need to resolve the issue because sales are adequate enough the way it is. As a side, go to youtube and type in Pa800 and you will see what I mean about the Pa series being a hot item with Ethnic populations. But if enough people passed on the Pa series you can bet that Korg would finally step in and resolve the issue or risk losing an even greater potential consumer base.

When there is talk about the Korg Pa1x/Pa2x having the same variation fill-in problems that were present on the Pa80 from years past it shows me (and others) that Korg still hasn't got it right and unfortunately many people who would have otherwise gotten the Pa2x may now have second thoughts because of these continuing unresolved issues. Does Korg care? Maybe not since this aberration with the variation fill-ins is still apparently going to be an issue with the Pa2x as well. Korg may not see the fill-in/variation issue as an aberration but many people who have purchased their Pa series arrangers see it differently. Just look on the Korg Pa Forums if you're unsure. So is the customer King in Korg's eyes? You decide, but in my estimation they are lacking somewhat - or a whole lot, depending on your point of view.

For my money I want something that is musically expressive, authentic sounding, and fluid in its operation. Getting two out of three on the Pa series is not too shabby I guess. But if it is not fixed on the Pa2x and/or Korg has no intention of fixing it with an OS update (if indeed the Pa2x has the problem), then I too shall pass on the Pa2x unfortunately. I know, I know, I'm picky.. but at four, count 'em 4 $$$$ Grand, it's better to be picky than sorry in my opinion. And at the same time "safe than sorry" also.

Best,
Mike