Thought I'd update everyone with what's been going on with my Yamaha Tyros USB problem. As some of you might recall, Yamaha 'finally' acknowledged a couple of weeks ago (after going back & forth with them over this issue for months) that there indeed is a known issue with USB/PC connectivity on some Tyros keyboards, and that Yamaha USA now has an official hardware fix for this (covered under warranty).

I was really fortunate and "LUCKY" that a member of the repair staff at an authorized Yamaha keyboard repair shop in my area (30 miles away), just happened to attend one of the Christmas Parties I entertained for last year, and at that time, he came up and introduced himself, presented his card, and offered to help me out if I ever needed keyboard repair services.

This Tyros USB hardware replacement issue became just the opportunity for me to take him up on his offer. Instead of having to wait weeks (behind the busy shop's many other jobs ahead of mine) they went ahead performed the USB board replacement update (of which always included installing/replacing diodes) TODAY (Tuesday), the SAME day I brought it in.

I just recieved a call from the shop and advised me they have completed the repair and that I can pick up my keyboard tomorrow morning (Wednesday). I'm thankful for their help in insuring me that I now won't have to be without my Tyros keyboard for any of my gigs.


Unfortunately, because the repair shop doesn't have a computer which includes a USB port, or Yamaha Tyros software installed, they weren't able test & verify whether their USB board & diode replacement successfully fixed the problem or not. I'm gonna drive back tomorrow morning and bring it back home and test it myself. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I"ll keep you posted. Please wish me luck. - Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

Yay for Scott! After 12 months of crusading you actually got somewhere! No prizes to Yamaha for customer service.

I'm sure it will work fine -- and it makes a world of a difference. Transfer rate is very good and very quick.

Chony

Hi Chony, thanks for your response and support. Considering nobody else replied, I wonder how much interest there is to my situation. Well, I hope there is at least a little more sympathy for me know, cuz I got more BAD news to report.

I just returned home from the second 70 mile round trip drive I had to make to the keyboard repair shop, this time to 'pick up' my Tyros keyboard, which underwent the USB Port board replacement modification.
After hooking my Tyros back up to my computer via USB, to my horrible discovery , the Tyros' USB Port connection still doesn't work.

I immediately called Yamaha USA hardware techician, Jason Lee, the guy Steve Deming had earlier refered my case to, and he advised me that my only recourse now is to ship my keyboard back to Yamaha USA in Buena Park, CA, and that he would then attempt to fix the problem directly at Yamaha.

I just got back from my local 'packing & shipping store, and it's costing me $85 to have it both custom packed & padded in a large box (to fit both the Tyros as well Kases Porter keyboard case (to provide added protection) via UPS, and insured for $2,500. Unfortunately, Yamaha will not cover the shippping to their facility. Of whatever good news I can get out of this, Jason promised me (to expedite a quick turnaround) he would get started on this repair job the same day he receives the keyboard.

In the meantime, I'm NOW without the keyboard I rely on for work. Luckily, due to the generousity of friends, I'm able to borrow their PSR2000 keyboard to gig with for the next week or so. Thank goodness I saved all my old PSR2000 styles & registrations on floppy, as well as the PSR2000 Music Finder file which can be loaded into the borrowed keyboard. Even so, this is going to be more than a little inconvenient & awkward to have to do my gigs for the next week without my Tyros because I rely on Tyros specific registrations bank files for much of my show, and unfortunately Tyros Registrations & Music Finder Files will not play on the PSR2000, or even the PSR3000 for all that matters.

Ok, I think I'm ready for a stiff drink right now, but I suppose it wiser to take an aspirin instead. As always, I promise to keep everyone posted on the lastest developments. Ok, I guess I better start getting used to playing those 'cheesy spongy' keys again.

I have to admit that how this whole scenerio turns out will determine what future keyboard(s) I get next.

- Scott

Hi Scott

I've been following your story. I just don't a lot of time to reply. Sorry to hear what sounded so good has now turned bad. I sure hope after all this Yamaha fixes it correctly once and for all. I think they'd prefer you to through it away and buy something new. From Yamaha, of course!



Tom G.

Scott
Hope it all comes out ok. The only thing I will say about your comment for future shoices in boards is that they are all susceptible to break.

Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, all their repair facilities across the entire US are filled every day with broken cars.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 09-15-2004).]

Scott:

I have no direct interest in the Tyros but I'm always interested in issues and resolutions related to it. Also it's interesting to see how you'll cope, as I'm sure you will. Not having my primary keyboard available for any reason has always been a long-standing fear and I've developed several backup systems to cope with it. These things happen. None the less, best of luck with a speedy recovery, and keep us posted.

Which just goes to show you the pitiful, lackluster and downright disheartening condition of pride of quality workmanship not only in the USA, i.e. (Ford, Chevy, Dodge) but the World in general, i.e. (Yamaha, Korg, Roland). Although never having owned a Korg or Roland product I really can't speak negatively about them personally. But from what I read on various Keyboard Forums on the internet, Korg and Roland are no exception.

I think the biggest quandary in being able to make exceptionally good quality and reliable Keyboards or any other product for that matter is: 1. Not constructing the product using 'quality' parts: 2. The Company not being willing to spend the necessary money to attract and hire personnel that are truly qualified to do the job right: 3. Companies that try to save a buck (penny wise but pound foolish) by parting out the Manufacturing end of things to under-qualified Countries (with under-qualified Factories) and under-qualified workers.

To give you an example of deteriorating quality just think back about 25 years or so ago when home Stereo Receivers were built like tanks and weighed about as much as one too. They lasted a lifetime it seemed and all because of their quality expert craftmanship and the quality parts placed in them. The sound produced by those solidly built Receivers back then was breathtaking and astonishing to say the least.

>> Now fast forward to todays Stereo Receivers and what do you mostly get? How about light as a feather, cheap parts with most everything made of plastic. And 99 times out of a 100 the sound doesn't hold a candle to Receivers made years ago with expertly crafted and high quality parts. And that 1% that does sound like those of yesteryear, were most assuredly made from quality parts from an upstanding quality focused and driven Company who's main work ethic IMO is not in the pursuit of becoming filthy rich but in the pursuit of perfection itself.

Btw, Lexus which is a subsidiary of Toyota, has a slogan they use. Do you know what it is? "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection".

Do you also know that Lexus vehicles are among the most problem free vehicles ranked out of a 100 from JD Power and Associates? In fact the Lexus SC430 recorded the best score ever recorded by Power. But it is sad to note that even Lexus's ranking for quality has declined 14% for all its Models from just a few years ago.

>> A sign of the times??? Let's hope not!

Yamaha - A sign of the times??? Let's hope not from them either!!

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-15-2004).]

As for quality of products: I can not remember the times when we didn't have problems with electrical equipment. And as for cars: there have always been "friday-version" or "monday-versions". And I believe cars have improved since they are made by robots.
Metal is better too - now I can drive my car 12 years, my previous car 11 years, the car before that was all rusty after 7.5 years and all the cars before that too.
My point is: some things have improved. Unfortunately other things haven't.
It also has to do with complexity of things. Computers crash and that will not change, because software gets more demanding and programs more complex - although a change in sourcecode by simplification could improve things.
Company mentality has changed over the years. Company directors are managers who are not in any way interested in product quality - they want to sell, get rich, and don't give a damn about the products or their customers.
This stupid USB problem Scott's Tyros has should be handled by Yamaha on their costs. It should have been fixed a year ago.
Scott should be given a replacement Tyros so he can carry on until his own Tyros is fixed. Yamaha acts like the USB is something special that needn't be working.
No service policy at all.
That's managers for you.

------------------
drdalet

Scott.....

Silly question...did you try your Tyros BEFORE you left the repair shop after driving all that way?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2004).]

We do not know each other, but I feel that I do! You have ability to use any keyboard and please anybody! You are talented, yet not stuck-up and will help anyone. We value you and appreciate your input. Hope you and the 2000 get along well, and the Tyros runs back to you very soon I have a 2000 and it is a good board also!

Scott, I'm sorry to hear that your problem was not fixed.
I hope Yamaha gets it fixed & back to you in a hurry.
Wishing You Good Luck
Denny

I have also followed your story, but I've been extremely busy and haven't posted much.
I don't really use the USB connection much. I used it to upgrade the OS and occasionally use it to play a midi file from the computer and have had no problems.
Come to think of it, I only used it maybe twice to play midi files, and that was months ago.
Anyway, good luck. You'll do fine with the 2k.
DonM

I must send my congratulations to Yamaha local dealer (A Serenata).
Last year I had a problem with my Psr 2000, 7 months old.
Just a phone to the salesman ( Mr. Miqueias) and I received a brandnew keyboard in the SAME DAY.
An attitude of respect with a profi musician.

Chico

[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 09-16-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ChicoBrasil (edited 09-16-2004).]

Scott, I think that your Tyros´s USB problem reflects a little in each Tyros owner!!!
I used the USB occasionally without problem, but.....I´ve noticed sparks when I insert the USB cable and this isn´t good for eletronic equipments.
Here in Brazil if it happens a similar problem, certainly I´m going to stay without the keyboard for a long, long time.
Good Luck.

Armando

Donny, that was not possible.

Please re-read my initial post again. Here's what I said:



Scott

Scott... in that case I would have brought my laptop to the repair shop & definitly tested out the KB "IN THE SHOP"....

Forgeddabouttit!!!..I dont trust these techie nudnicks ...I've had so much screwed up repair work it ain't funny which cost me money & time....you gotta stay on top of these GEEKS big time!!!!

Consider it lesson learned


Hope it works out in the end for ya!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2004).]

Donny, this particular repair shop and repair technician (head technician) was not a nudnick. This repair facility was recommended by Steve Deming to me, and is also highly respected & used by the top pro musicians in the SF Bay Area. The technician worked closely with Yamaha USA on this job. Part of the problem is that Yamaha did not provide them a schematic of my keyboard, so the repair tech had to confer several times (at length) over the the phone with Yamaha USA in order to get the USB replacement part installed properly. Though I don't know the root of the problem, my local repair technician advised me that when he went to replace the USB port, the original factory USB port soldering joint was bad (cold solder joint). I trust that the replacement board was installed correctly according to Yamaha's (via telephone) instructions. It will be interesting to find out what Jason Lee at Yamaha reports back after he reviews the situation upon inspection. - Scott

Your kind words have lifted my spirits greatly. Thanks Keith for your support. - Scott


Many thanks to everyone else who responded (both here and via private email) as well. I just received a telephone call a little while ago from Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) and confirmed to him that even after the recent USB Port hardware upgrade performed on my keyboard, I'm still getting no Tyros/PC 'USB recognition' in BOTH of the two possible Tyros to PC USB connection modes:

1) USB-Storage Mode (HDD)

2) Yamaha 'File Utility' software vers 1.2.0 program

I also confirmed with him that Jason Lee (Yamaha USA repair technician) has now given me a Return Authorization Number, and that I am sending my Tyros today to Yamaha USA for evaulation & repair.




drdalet, Unfortunately, the first obstacle was the challenge of getting Yamaha to acknowledge a problem in the first place. The next step was convincing them to correct it, and the last step is waiting for them to finally take corrective action. Unfortunately, this process has taken over a year. As far as repair cost goes, Yamaha has agreed to foot the bill for parts & labor, and return shipping back to me, but I must bear the cost of shipping my keyboard to Yamaha ($85).



I presented this request to Yamaha USA (Jason Lee) and he told me that Yamaha USA does NOT provide customers with loaner keyboards. In addition, I was also advised that Yamaha will not (under any circumstances) provide customers with a 'new' REPLACEMENT keyboard, and that the only thing Yamaha is willing to do is replace exisiting parts until the problem is resolved. I supposed, contrary to Chico's experience of receiving a brand new replacement keyboard from Yamaha, Yamaha USA does things differently then Yamaha Brazil. I only wish I was living in Brazil now.



I'm not sure if I'd go that far, but for me (and many others I'm sure), USB connectivity is definitely an essential feature of the keyboard, especially for those of us with optional hard drive installed. I view transfering Tyros files to/from my PC & backing up the Tyros hard drive an essential (daily routine) activity, and anything short of being able to do this, an invitation to disaster (ei: hard drive crash).

As my patience grows thin (I'm actually known for being a pretty patient guy), I'll continue to remain hopeful that Yamaha will be able to quickly find a solution to my problem, so I can finally get back to making music & gigging with my Tyros again, afterall, I really do love this instrument otherwise. Stay tuned.

Scott

Scott, Hmmmm OK...you have much more patience then I do.... ......but like I said.....
I hope it all works out in the end for ya buddy!

Donny,
I'm afraid you are very right about repair-jobs. It is hard to believe those guys could not arrange a PC just to verfy/check the replacement. Almost every house 'owns' 2 or 3 computers.....

I learned the lesson : NEVER trust those guys but check while you are in the shop !!

Sometimes they forget to reconnect all devices as HDD's, FDD's, control-panels or sliders during re-assembly.

Unfortunately, I had NO CHOICE, at least in this case. I'm at the mercy of Yamaha & the repair shop they recommended I use. - Scott

Scott, my heart goes out to you, I faced having to part with my keyboard recently, and the thought was horrifying.

IMHO, I believe they should build these keyboards like desktop computers so you can fix them at home by installing a new part or modular board yourself, you could then send the old part back for credit if it was faulty.

------------------
Graham

[This message has been edited by PraiseTheLord (edited 09-16-2004).]

One time with my 9k they, [the so called yamaha repair TECHIE] forgot to reconnect the LCD Light for the Display Screen after replacing a key contact strip, I didnt know it until I was on stage....I had to do the whole 4hr gig with a freakin flashlight to see the screen settings Arggggg! When I brought it back to the shop the next day 80 miles away round trip "AGAIN" he said I would have to leave it for about a week till he can get to it because thre wee othr ahead of me....I went nuts!!! in the store and he fixed it Immediatly on the spot,...
it was his error!!!!


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2004).]

Scott said:
I presented this request to Yamaha USA (Jason Lee) and he told me that Yamaha USA does NOT provide customers with loaner keyboards. In addition, I was also advised that Yamaha will not (under any circumstances) provide customers with a 'new' REPLACEMENT keyboard, and that the only thing Yamaha is willing to do is replace exisiting parts until the problem is resolved. I supposed, contrary to Chico's experience of receiving a brand new replacement keyboard from Yamaha, Yamaha USA does things differently then Yamaha Brazil. I only wish I was living in Brazil now.

This is the true :
In my issue, the entire merit goes to my Yamaha local dealer and dealer sales man.
The sales man knows that I cannot have just one day without my kbd.
Yamaha do not know who is Chico.
I think that is the more important issue.

Chico

Scott,
Speaking for myself, I use the USB connection very sparsely and I only try it when I have a certain number of operations to complete. As I already had reported, I also realized that the connection isn't 100% reliable. However, with patience I get my USB operations done using both operation modes. It doesn't "pay" (for me) all the hassle trying to get the connection fixed. I'm far away for a Yamaha repair center (the rep is a spanish company.. ) and I tend not to trust repair centers unless I know very well their reputation. Unlike Yamaha, Roland has a very good support in Portugal in case something goes wrong. I undertand how fragile is our position, as costumers...

OT observation: this topic was "dead" for a while, as Scott brought us his good news. But as soon as the bad news came... Is this a good lesson about the "human nature"?...

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 09-17-2004).]

Speaking for myself: I was pleased when I heard the good news but didn't feel reacting untill the problem WAS solved. Well, it wasn't. And then - when I read the posts of how Yamaha USA handles this - I felt like reacting. In this case "human nature" has to do with "replaced anger", I mean the "if-this-happened-to-me" feeling. Besides I think Scott is a really cool guy and very talented and doesn't deserve this treatment. Yamaha (USA) should appreciate this guy.

------------------
drdalet

I'm sure each of us has a good reason for reacting/not reacting to a post, sometimes so simple as having/not having the time to reply. But I was thinking of more general reasons. I have frequently the impression that humans tend to pay more attention to disasters and bad news (by sympathy or other feelings?). The media seem to know to explore this tendency in a very efficient way! Just my thoughts, of course.

You are absolutely right, Scott deserved a better treatment, but we all are in the hands of the dealers. We are lucky when we get the respect of one. I don't have Ketron equipment anymore but while I was a Ketron their support in Portugal was none less than excellent.

-- José.

If/when Ketron and Roland bring a new flagship arranger to market, I'll be interested.
My experience has been that Yamaha support is far better than Roland in the US though.
DonM

drdalet: Wow, what a welcome 'ego boost' to make my day. Thanks.

To Yamaha USA's credit though, even though Yamaha has'nt (at least yet ) gone 'beyond the call of duty', both Steve Deming (Yamaha USA customer support mgr) & Jason Lee (Yamaha USA PSR hardware technician) have BOTH been corteous & prompt in returning my phone calls, of which I'm very appreciative. In addition, Jason has assured me that he has given my case the 'highest' priority, and promised to immediately start working on my keyboard the moment it arrives.




Hi Jose. Yes, I too was initially able to tolerate (albeit begrudgenly) the Tyros flaky USB reliability when it was 80-90%. But over time, the USB reliability has fallen to 50%, 30%, 20%, 10%, and now (as well as for the last couple of months) it's 0% (completely dead!) in BOTH operation modes: USB-Storage Mode and File Utility.

Because I continously need to add/edit/delete files on the Tyros hard drive, regular data back up to PC, and then to DVD/CD (for safekeeping) is essential. Short of performing backups via the keyboard's built-in floppy disk drive 1.44kb at a time , the ability to backup via USB is mandatory.

As far as trusting the reliability of repair facilities, in my case, I'm keeping my confidence up that now having sent my unit directly to the manufacterer (Yamaha USA), that they'll be able to correctly diagnoise the problem fix it once and for all. Please wish me luck.

Scott

Just received notification that "the Eagle (that's my Tyros ) has landed" at Yamaha USA in Buena Park, CA. The Yamaha USA Tyros technician assigned to work on my keyboard has informed me that he is getting started right away to checkout my keyboard to determine and fix the USB problem I've been having. I'll keep you guys posted. - Scott

Scott,

I just finished checking out your Tyros. Mow it works first time, every time. It should be on its way home soon.

Steve

Steve, many thanks for the PERSONAL attention you've given to overseeing this. It was reported to me that my local Yamaha repair facility had accidently installed the USB hardware update's 'diode' part backwards. I suppose this is a case in point to further support Donny's negative attitude about keyboard repair shops & those so called: 'techie nudnicks'.

It's also IMPORTANT to note that (according to Steve Deming), Tyros-PC USB connectivity (with Tyros OS 1.40) is now only possible via 'Mass Storage (HDD) mode, and no longer possible via 'File Utility' mode. On the other hand, the 'Tyros Voice Editor" utility continues to work via USB.

Ok, I'm now looking forward to having my baby arrive safely back home and to be performing with my Tyros again. Steve, please let me know when my keyboard has actually shipped (along with tracking number) so I can arrange to have someone home to accept it. I PROMISE to report back my USB connectivity findings as soon as my keyboard arrives home.

Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

Scott, I'm sorry you had to be without your Tyros for such a long time.

Hopefully, Yamaha will get the hardware right (and 99% of the software) the first time - next time they make a high end keyboard.

I have had relatively good experiences with my local repair facility. I wish it were more local. I have to pay $25 to get it done in a week. I can have the repair done in three to four weeks at no extra charge.

I once had a blown speaker on a PSR2000. They replaced it within a week (easy repair).

I once had a PSR740 go out on me completely. They replaced the motherboard within a week. Worked fine.

I once cracked the plastic or glass cover of the LCD on my PSR2000. As they keyboard worked fine, I just asked for it to be ordered before I had it installed. I waited 3 months, and the repair facility told me Yamaha never sent them the part. I don't know if the repair facility was flaking on me. I contacted the head of Yamaha repair, and they Fedexed me the part within a week. I had a friend install it for $30.

I hope, Scott, that you get your Tyros back soon. A musician shouldn't have to be parted from his keyboard.

Beakybird

I figure I can handle a soldering iron but it's quite easy to get a diode the wrong way round because the markings vary.

Which is why I double-check with a meter!

Ok folks, my Eagle (the Tyros) has finally landed safely back on my doorstep today (Friday, 9/24) following it's flight South for the week at Yamaha USA in Buena Park, CA.

I'm THRILLED to report that its' faulty USB connection problem has been FIXED and I'm now not only able to achieve USB connectivity in "Mass Storage (HDD)" mode, but "File Utility" mode as well. Yipee! The folks at Yamaha really came thru for me this time around. A great BIG thanks to BOTH Steve Deming (Mgr of Yamaha Customer Support) and Jason Lee (Yamaha hardware repair tech) for not only making this happen, but turning this around SO QUICKLY as well. I sent my keyboard off last Friday and it arrived back today (Friday). AS a result, I was only out my keyboard for one weekend. In the meantime, gigging with a borrowed PSR2000 (many thanks to my good buddy Bob ) gave me a chance to even better appreciate my Tyros. With BOTH my previous Tyros gripes (flaky USB connection & missing foot pedal repeat fill function) resolved now, I look forward to performing once again with what I consider a terrific arranger keyboard. Ok, we're off to a gig. - Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

Hi Scott.

Very good news.
I´m glad with your "crusade´s" solution.
Have a nice gig.

Cheers,
Armando