Hi I am looking for my first arranger keyboard. I am looking to use this as my master keyboard for my Yamaha EX5R and Creamware Profit5 as well as using it as a fast scratch pad for writing and recording songs using the on-board sequencer.

My main criteria is for a very intuitive interface where I can change sounds in a preset pattern and easily edit a part within a sequence all on the fly.

My second, but just as important criteria is for the onboard arrangements (styles) and third party arrangements to be to my liking. I want bossanova and general latin styles both traditional and contemporary and also electronic type music - eg Depeche mode, Goldfrapp, Air. I realise that the electronica type will be hard to find so I need to be able to create my own styles effortlessly. Lastly I am looking for modern R&B/Hiphop/House and 70s-80s funk styles. I am quite happy to buy many third party additonal styles and would be grateful for recommendations on whether the Roland or Korg is a better bet for these third party styles.

Sorry if I have used some of the incorrect terminology and I hope not to have confused you. Also I have not mentioned any other manufacturers as my main London dealer says that these two are the best. Having a quick play on both the PA1Xpro and the G70, they were both very impressive.

Which would you buy and why? many thanks.

I think you'll find both models will work fairly well for what you want to do. However I'd probably suggest a Korg arranger because the sounds are Triton based. The Triton sound set would fair well for HipHop, R&B, and music like Depeche Mode.

Sounds and styles are always subjective. I suggest you try to find these models in a store and try them out.

Squeak


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-26-2005).]

At first ,I thought you were looking for an entry level keyboard..Then I realized you are considering 2 of the best arrangers on the market..Both will do what you want..Style and sequence editing is easier and better on the Roland..Patch editing edge may go to the Korg[maybe]...My preference, although I have not played one,but I am familiar with the features found on it...G70..

I have played the Korg..I like it ,but not overly impressed with it..The MP3 option would be the only reason I would consider it, personally..

You probably would not need your Yamaha module with either keyboard..but it is most likely a favorite of yours..

Hi and thanks for the replies. Yes I am only interested in the top of the range stuff as I would like a 76 note keyboard and the action has to be very good as it will replace my Roland A50 Master keyboard. I might not keep the EX5R - it certainly is very good at electric piano sounds and many synth type sounds but would let it go if I could replace it with the Korg. I have demod the Yamaha EX5R against the Roland SRX vintage keys and the Yamaha wins the electric keys battle but the Roland wins on the organs, so it stays if I chose Roland. I have sold about 18 synths in the last 18 months so am prepared to let stuff go. I will end up with an arranger and a few other niche things; no way could I just have one keyboard!

I like the EX5R. Although it's quite a few years old, it does have some great features. It also works well for the music you've listed. The Power of the EX-5 and EX-5R is in the voice editing. Plus you can expand the sample memory and add more samples. The capacity of the sequencer is considered small by todays standards. It's funny though that the EX series had a sequencer with a 30,000 note capacity and the PSR-3000 is only 5,000 more.

Arrangers are nice, but I will tell you from my years of experience with trying to compose HipHop, R&B, Rap, Dance, ect on arrangers keyboards has been VERY disappointing. I still feel that arrangers aren't built for these styles of music. For these styles you need a board that uses pattern chaining (since the majority of HipHop ect uses chained patterns).

Also with these styles you have to have a board that will allow you to really twist up the sounds. HipHop for example is a style where the instruments are changing daily. It's a very hard style to keep up with. Plus the board you choose needs to have the ability to edit the drum kits.

Arrangers don't use pattern chaining either. Plus your patterns when taking bass tracks and so forth are limited by the board (because you have to record in a specific key signature to get the auto accomp to work properly).

I have since given up on using arrangers to compose these styles of music. I've owned several great synth/workstations over the years that were great for these styles. I didn't have the EX-5R, but I did have the EX-7, and several others

Squeak

Squeak, I think you can get enough drum /bass variation with Roland's top of the line arrangers[G1000,VA and G70] to handle Hip Hop..
Roland styles can easily be edited to have different pattern for every segment of a style if you need it that way..Also, you can change to any downbeat of the next measure ,to a new style.
Many drum kits are suitable without edits.
And you can EQ to handle any situation..[-12 to +12]..

The workstations are properly named..You have to work pretty long and hard to acheive results that still don't compare with an quality arranger..

I had a Triton Studio 76, and the only decent sequence tracks it could create were sparse Hip Hop type things...I couldn't [didn't want to] use it.

My Roland XP80 was better[I liked the sounds better than Korg]...but it couldn't do the job that my G1000 did..

Squeak, I know you have worked with the lower priced arrangers..Have you had the chance to work with SD1, G1000/VA/G70, Genesys etc...?

I think they are head and shoulders above the entry level keyboards that I am aware you owned in the past[PSR550, WK3500]..

If you are going to compare the workstations[non arranger workstations], we need to compare them to the Arranger workstations..

Both Roland and Korg can do the music you want to do, arrangers not withstanding.

I know the Roland G70 can except one expansion card (of which there are many in the Roland sound library) at one time. I think Korg has something similar also.

Korg has the edge on sound editing but Roland has good compression and eqs which are good for the type of music your doing.

One of the good things about the Korg is that it has a sampler. You can also import wave loops and sync them with styles.

For me, one of the biggest negatives about the Korg is the touch screen. Unless you are very comfortable, that could pose some problems for easy operation. But then again, on the Korg you can remap drum kits to your liking.

I think that using the style creation tool is a good way to start making the type of music you are making. A style is basically a looped pattern and depending on how many variations, fills intros and endings Korg and Roland gives the user; you can have well over 12 parts to a song quickly created. The only down side is that the amount of tracks you can use in a style is limiting. Unless Korg or Roland has it different, they are usually just 8 style tracks.


Because of the hard drive and the sampler I like the Korg. Because of the lack of the touch screen I like the Roland.

I like the fact that both are still adding new features and updating their OS to satisfy their user’s needs. Unlike Some keyboard manufacturers who promise that their keyboards’ OS and features can be upgraded, but don’t actually do it. Instead, they release a newer (but not different) hardware version of the keyboard that just includes the software upgrades that should have been on the older keyboard.

But I digress.
When it comes to which sounds better, it really is going to come down to you testing out both Korg and Roland keyboards and figuring out which one you like and which one would best fit your music.

Happy shopping.

if you want with good seq /sound arranger(though arranger funcs are not that great for realtime for me)get a pa1x (better for that type of music and have a decent sequencer with pattern record and 200,000 note mem)or a triton xetreme(not a arranger but sounds better and warmer and more sounds/rom).

Hi Jupiter4
You say you are prepared to go to high end arranger Keyboards, well although more expensive then the boards you mention, consider the Wersi Ikarus & Lionstracs Media station, as these are software based and you can install VST plug-ins (Soft Synths etc) of which there are many available for all the types of music you require.
Media station probably has the edge at the moment, but with Wersi OAS 7 software due out soon, they will probably be similar, both (Wersi with OAS 7) can also use Giga samples.
Whichever board you get, I would you suggest you get a copy of Style works 2000, which will allow you to covert styles from various keyboards to the one that you own. (Some fine-tuning will be required to get the best results)
With Wersi instruments (And I think also Media station) you can install the program directly on the keyboard.
As an additional point Wersi use OEM versions of the Creamware Pulsar 32 bit dsp cards, and so can accept samples designed for these cards as well as Akai samples.

Bill

Hello again and thanks for the constructive replies, I really do appreciate it. I also appreciate that you either prefer the sound of the Korg or that of the Roland. At this stage I am neutral and if we could focus on features and working style it would be really helpful to me.

More thoughts. I like the fact that the Roland G70 can have an SRX card and the sounds can be used in a style - this could be very useful. On the other hand the Korg being able to import sample loops sounds good but I have never used samples before - are they auto beat-matched, can you change tempo without pitch and can they be used as part of a style? Could I import my own samples ie record someting from any source as a .wav file?

8 Tracks of instrumentation on either keyboard is more than enough for a style. I actually want to play live into the sequencer in addition to this and also to sequence my other sounds modules and synths using the Korg or Roland sequencer. I see the style as a basic backing band with me doing all lead and most (non-guitar) rythmn stuff live.

On sound editing the Korg only seems to have one more synth parameter than the Roland but I have not checked out the effects yet, I will do this today.

It is interesting to hear the thoughts about whether an arranger can be used for the type of music that I want to do. If I can use it just as a sequencer without using any styles other than drums and it is way easier than the Motif or Fantom - is it easier? - then I can live with that.

If I am limited to only being able to create 12 different 'loops' to use within a style this is also ok as I really only want to use the styles as basic backing and will play live over the top with additional layers stored in the on-board sequencer. So long as both arrangers allow me to do this it will not be a problem at all.I think that they both have 16 tracks so this is enough. I notice that the Korg has two sequencers but am not sure of the benefit of this.

The Korg does have a touch screen and it works fine. I prefer the position of the sliders being under the screen on the Roland from an ergonomic point of view but this is not essential.

Can anyone comment on the availability of third party styles for the type of music that I want to do. Are they easier to find for the Roland or Korg. Watching the Yamaha Tyros online video I was thinking oh my, this is not what I want at all until he started on a few 'dance' pieces but the Tyros as presented was far from the type of music that I want to do. Whilst I know that I can customise the styles I would like to have a few hundred of each style so that my music is not too samey.

The other thing about the styles is that I would like good variation between the variations, meaning that on the Roland I think that there was not that much variation - just more instrumentation based on the same groove? I might be mistaken and will play again today to be sure. My preference would be to have different chords and notes played, particularly for the chorus. On the Roland, and maybe the Korg, the other thing that I noticed was that the third and forth variation invariably meant that the drumming really picked up the pace which is something that I would not always want. On that point, what is drum editing like on both machines? Step or live?

Based on this further update from me does this narrow it down a bit, or are they both neck and neck? Thank you.

Bill

Bill thanks, had never heard of Wersi until now. I had a quick look at the their site but it is in German and the US site does not have any worthwhile info. It might be good, particularly if they are using Creamware OEM stuff. How does it compare to the others bearing in mind my latest post that crossed with yours? Where can I get more info in English please - I am happy to Google but do not have much time today. Do you know if they are available in the UK. Many thanks.

Jamman not really interested in a workstation along the line of a Triton or Fantom - I really want to use auto styles and this would appear to mean only the Pa1X or G70 especially as I want hands on dedicated controls to operate this type of playing. Thanks.

Sorry, should have said that I also want to be able to edit drum styles by replacing individual drum sounds in the sytle ie only change the snare sound . Thanks.

Hi Jupiter4
I will have a good read of your message later as I am quite busy at the moment, but the Uk agent for Wersi is, “Daniel Watt” danielwatt@delapre.fsnet.co.uk they also have just appointed a dealer in the UK, Harmony Music of Boston.

Harmony Music
17 – 17a West Street
Boston
Lincs PE21 8QN
01205 355366
(Web site has yet to be updated)

If you are anywhere near Caister on Sea (Just above Gt Yarmouth) then the Caister Organ & Keyboard Festival is on from the 30-09-05 to 7-10-05, with open days designated as the 1st & 2nd of October, which means you will be able to try the Wersi Ikarus, (Not sure if OAS 7 will be showcased) Roland G70 OS2 (Debuts on the Sunday, (Although should be on the stand Saturday) KorgPa1x Elite, (Including plus pack) Tyros 2 (Public World Premier on the Saturday) and not forgetting the Ketron SD1, so you will be able to try them all in one place.
Will include further details of the Wersi instruments when I have more free time.

Bill

Hi Jupiter4
I have PA1X since July 2004. It´s a pleasure to play it every day. The most important in this keyboard it´s the capability to customize it (You can delete all factory styles and sounds that you don´t like, and reload just that you like). With a EC5 pedal and songbook you can play live very easy. But, I don´t like the piano sound. So, I had to buy the Piano Assault from Sharp.(http://www.irishacts.com). Very soon I´m planning to buy a decent piano (Clavia Nord Stage or Yamaha S90ES).
The G70 it´s a good keyboard, I tried it several times, but and didn´t like the styles.
Just my opinion.
Regards
Franky

Posted by Fran:
------------------------------
Squeak, I think you can get enough drum /bass variation with Roland's top of the line arrangers[G1000,VA and G70] to handle Hip Hop..
Roland styles can easily be edited to have different pattern for every segment of a style if you need it that way..Also, you can change to any downbeat of the next measure ,to a new style.
Many drum kits are suitable without edits.
And you can EQ to handle any situation..[-12 to +12]..
--------------------------------------

Fran, I have to disagree with this. To do decent HipHop, R&B, ect you'll need to edit drums regardless. For some time HipHop, Rap, and R&B was all that I was writing. I was making a few bucks to the side while in college writing for other students.

A sampler is also important. The user needs to be able to import (individual drum sounds) to create user kits

Also the board MUST have top quality synth sounds, and the ability to create user voices that contain multiple elements.

HipHop and so forth are styles that are changing every day. It's not like Rock, Blues for example where the same instruments can be used over and over.

Squeak

I just want to add this too. I honestly have yet to hear any arranger keyboard pull off some REAL funk music. Sure they've done a fairly decent job here and there, but what makes funk music so distinctive is that "wha' guitar. I'm not talking about the cheesy wha guitar you hear in arranger funk styles either. I'm talking about that wha guitar that so distinctive, that when you hear it you know that's down right "funk".

The guitar sound needs (scratch that I should say MUST) have that classic wha guitar where not only is the sound driven by the wha effect, but also by the strumming (meaning that funky strum with the pick sound) needs to also be in there.

Squeak

Well if you are going to consider the Mediastation and Wersi, for the type of music you are going to do (and for any type of music really), those keyboards could be what you need.
Always taking in to account, with hip-hop and other type of urban music it is not the sound source that matters as much as how creative you are with the sound.

Not that the Roland and Korg are bad but because of their closed OS their sounds and styles are limited. With the Wersi and Mediastation, you would be able to use giga samples and other high-quality samples on the keyboard with a generous sample memory.

The only thing is that there are not that many reviews on them so unless you are like some persons, and going to buy it like how some persons are buying the Tyros II, you would be best served to try and get some time playing with them taking a look at the OS and the key feel.

Dear all, thank you so much for all of the replies, they really helped me today in checking out the things that you said. I spent two hours playing the G70 and Pa1X and here are my conclusions.

Firstly the G70. At times very intuitive and at others frustrating until you work out how to do things. Some nice touches such as the draw bars for tweaking sounds and the organ mode. Some of the piano sounds were ok and the organs were great. On the downside some of the features did not work as expected. The Decay slider in the amplifier envelope has little or no effect and this seriously hampers you. Also the amp filter does not work like a normal amp filter. You should get no sound with attack, decay and release at zero but there is a constant sustain that you do not have access to - not good. The main thing those was the quality of the voices, especially the synth voices. I uswed to have many vintage synths such as minimoog, Jupiter 6, Arp Axxe, MKS80, etc etc and I have to say that Roland have played it very safe and gone for inoffensive sounds. they do not sound very authentic at all. Very disappointing. The styles were ok but I ws not set alight. The SRX board cannot be used in the styles at present but can with OS 2 but there is no guarantee that it will work well. I would not pay £700 for this board let alone the £2400 that it is selling for in the UK.

On to the Korg PA1X. WOW! Deep synth programming and very convincing sounds. Very, very surprised as I have always been a Roland man since 1985. The styles were ok and seemed to have more variation than the Roland ones. I particularly liked the dedicated octave switches and fill in switches, also that each time you select a voice the editing screen automatically opens. There were other things as well that I liked but cannot remember them. The downside was that the sliders were not up to the Roland quality in feel and usage.

In short the Korg won quite easily. I have been using a Roland MC909 and now that I am set on the Korg will see if this is still valid or if the MC909 will go up for sale. At £2500 for the PA1XPro it is a hell of a lot of money. More than I think it is worth. I think that it is worth £2000 on a comparative basis with other pro audio gear. So do I go for a PA80 instead or just try and get a PA1XPro second hand? I will open another thread.

many thanks again for the very helpful advice.

Squeak, can you email me an example[MP3]of a Hip Hop/R and B/Funk..that you believe can't be done on an arranger..I would like to give it a shot on the G1000...to see why you think it can't be done..
Especially if you have a sequence originating from a Triton or Motif..even a Fantom...
I think I could duplicate any sound from the forementioned synths..

I took this challenge with a Korg i30 owner a few years ago[a cha cha pattern with a rhodes piano and a fingered bass]. He couldn't pick out the i30 from the G1000..

Give it a shot ..send me a short MP3.
I will try and get the same feel[not duplicate it..Hip Hop is not my type of music, so I can't take too much..maybe R and B or Funk..].

I will record a small MP3 and email it back to you..

Just an experiment..one of us will be right..

I'm with Bill on this one, the Wersi and Lionstracs are easily the top contenders available right now for arranger/workstations and they both offer more features than any competitor bar none. If you don't need arranger features then the Korg Oasys is also worth considering. The Wersi has by far the easiest to operate GUI but with each Lionstracs update the Mediastation is getting closer and closer to Wersi. The Wersi is damned difficult to beat though as its interface, sounds, features, and build quality are top notch.

Both Wersi and Lionstracs can play GIGA files and until you've heard a multi gigabyte sound played back you don't know just how awesome they sound. Whereas competitors such as Yamaha, Korg, and Roland use only a few hundred Megabytes of sound ROM for all their sounds, Wersi and Lionstracs can play back single sounds that are 3-5 GB or more! In addition to GIGA sample playback the Wersi and Lionstracs both feature Native Instruments B4, definitely the best B3 modeling program available, and VST support so you can load your favorite soft synth, sequencer, and recording programs.

If you have a dealer near you give both of these keyboards a look and see and hear for yourself what they can do. I think either one will amaze you.

Hi, I appreciate your thougths on the Wersi; here are mine. On the sound front I have not hear a Wersi but I have owned a Kurzweil K2000VP, Roland SRX classic keys card an Akai SGV01 (vintage module from 1996) as well as the originals that they try to emulate. The Roland was nowhere near as good at recreating vintage sounds despite having buch bigger samples than the Akai and Kurzweil so in my experience it is much more than how many megbites or gigabite sof sound. The same goes for soft synths - the Ron Papen did not blow me away despite being hailed as one of the best soft synths.

The other think about Wersi is that they have no UK presence worth mentioning at present and I have reservations about the technology that they use in their product. My preference is to be behind the curve of technology because you are normally better off. Whilst I appreciate that all modern keyboards have a 'computer inside' there are computers and computers and I do not like the windoze based ones.

Hi Jupiter4
Have a look at the VST site links on this site, http://www.funk-station.co.uk/links.htm in particular Synth Edit & FXPansion (Which include GURU) all these can be used alone on a computer or integrated in to any keyboard that accepts VST Instruments.
Regarding Windows stability, bear in mind that the Wersi instruments were developed in the late 90s, and were released on to the market in 2000 with OAS 2 and Windows 98, this was upgraded to Windows XP in 2002 when OAS 4 was released, I can also report that over the 5 or 6 years that the OAS instruments have been on the market, there has never been any problems with the Windows operating systems, (Exceptions are when people who think they know better then Wersi, alter and mess up the operating system) this is because Wersi modify the operating system to give optimal performance and stability with the OAS software, so you do not have to worry about it.
Like any software, sometimes bugs are found in the OAS system but as soon as Wersi are informed, then they get straight on the job to sort it out, and then offer a free update CD. (In the early days support was not as good as it could be, but with the new management team there is now very little problem)
Regarding Wersi itself, they have been in business since 1969, although there have been management changes over the years, as with a lot of firms.

Bill

Hi Jupiter,

you asked before about Pa1X sampling possibility: yes you can sample by yourself, import Akai-wav-aiff-Triton formats, and time-slice audio grooves for further use into styles.

I can tell you that I'm really satisfied with my actual set. Of course you cannot expect the perfect sound in every field (and this is valid for every model of every brand), and since everybody of us has his/her own tastes the best possible solution is having a sampler inside so you can integrate the standard set with the sounds you would like to add or enhance.
There is some work to do, that's clear, and the final result sometimes is also up to your programming ability, but definitely the most flexible solution.

Hope this help.

Cheers.

Fran,
I'll be gone most of today. If I get a chance I'll try to rip a quick mp3 for you this evening.

I do want to point this out. Sure, you can record HipHop, Rap, and R&B on ANY keyboard that has recording capabilities (even arrangers) The problem is that 99.99% of the time the recording will sound downright cheezy. It's not a knock on your G-1000 either. I've heard that board before, and it too (using internal voices) will sound cheezy.

Reason for this.....,simple! Arrangers do not have the voice set for recording these styles, and if you want to record these styles you MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST have a keyboard with SAMPLING capabilities, be it direct sampling or just the ability to load samples. You NEED to be able to bring in external sounds, and loops to do this. You MUST have a dedicated sampling synth/workstation, or something like an MPC-2000+ to do these styles and make them sound good.


If I can find the file I might already have a good one to send you. I did a killer HipHop beat on my Casio WK-3500. The only reason it turned out so darn good is because the Casio loads (user samples). I was able to use sounds (outside) of the Casio internal voices.

Also the ONLY arranger that has EVER been produced that did an awsome job at recording HipHop, Rap, R&B, Dance, ect was the ORIGINAL Yamaha DJX. Why oh why for the love of all that is holy did Yamaha totally sh** on that keyboard and released that crappy DJX II?????? They really had something going there. I don't think Yammie really knew how many DJ's and HipHop artists actually bought those things. I had one and DAMN! That board even though it's quite a few years old would dance circles around the PSR-3000, and others when it came to writing those styles.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-28-2005).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-28-2005).]

...so a combination of a PA1X or G70 or Tyros 2 plus my MC909 should be a winning combination for hiphop R&B etc? i agree that you need good sounds but more thna this I think that you need attitude - and that comes from the syles. I have a Boss DR202 and some of the drum beats are quite inspiring and it is fairly easy to get a groove going. My main interest in the arranger keyboards I am realising will be for latin and jazz styles that I love but cannot play very well.

You'll get the latin and jazz styles you're looking for on an arranger. Arrangers are great for jazz, blues, latin, rock, gospel, contemp., new age, and a few others. You're not going to get that thumping drums, bass, and synth sounds you'll need for HipHop and styles related to that from an arranger.

Also arranger style recorders arent the easiest to use when it comes to HipHop. With HipHop you need to chain your patterns. You cannot chain patterns on an arranger (some think you can, but you cannot because pattern chaining is different from using arrangers). Plus when doing HipHop loops artists generally record their fills and so forth into the loop itself. Thus making it easier to chain them.

When I get home I'm going to see if I have anything to send to Fran in either MP-3 or midi file for him to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

Squeak

Hay Squeak,

I hope you will be able to find a file to send to Fran. While I don’t think that the file would be able to be duplicated (since hiphop uses tweaked sounds) It may probably be able to get the general feel.


I agree with what you are saying as a general rule especially when you are talking about the PSRs and keyboards in and below that price range and keyboard quality.

I do think however that some of the more recent flagship arrangers like PA1x, G70 and Genesys, are in some respect capable of helping the user to create a hiphop track. I don’t think you will be able to do an entire CD of hiphop tracks with just one arranger (or one instrument for that matter), but you can get one or two decent ones.

I think it all depends on the specific arranger that is being used. For example, I have done a few hiphop and other urban tracks on the Genesys and to my surprised I was able to get some deep sounding basses and bass drums that other people liked. One thing about the Genesys is that you don’t just get your bass drums (or any other drum sounds) from just with in the drum kit. Each sound in the drum kit has its own patch number and space. I would use that and play with the LFOs, resonance, filter cut-offs, EQ and other sound changing tools to get the type of sound I want. I have even had persons that had the Korg Triton say to me that they prefer the Genesys drums because they sound deeper and bassyer out of the box. For them to get the Triton to sound like that, they have to apply a lot of effects. Is the Genesys a hiphop making tool? Absolutely not! Nor is any single hardware or software music making tool. I guess my point is that it all boils down to how well one knows the instruments and how well the instrument can be tweaked.

Hiphop and other urban music are very diverse musical genres today. No one equipment or creation technique (styles or patterns) is dominant. At the end of the day it all boils down to whether or not you have a hit or whether you are satisfied with what was produced.


p.s
I almost forgot. One thing we have to take in to account is that a lot of hiphop producers use mixers before they go in to their recording device to get that bass sound they want or to bring out the highs. They do this regardless of what equipment is giving the bass sounds like the Motif.

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-28-2005).]

Jupiter,i posted on your other thread,a site in uk for cheaper korgs,did you try it?

genesys,
You're right about not (one) piece of gear can do the work. To do HipHop, Rap, and all that you'll need a good synth, and something like an MPC-2000. Plus a good (sample) sound library (considering the sounds are changing constantly).

I personally wouldn't buy the top Korg arranger or the Roland G-70 to do this work. I'd buy a Roland Fantom, Yamaha Motif, or Korg Triton. Then I'd buy a MPC-2000, Have good computer programs, and so forth.

I'm home now checking files to see if I have anything I can send to Fran. If not I'll just write a quick HipHop loop using my Casio WK-3500 and Cubase and send him a midi.

As another member posted the styles need to have "attitude". He couldn't be more right. To program a HipHop drum beat is not the same as a simple rock, blues, or jazz beat. You have to make sure the beat is up to date.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-28-2005).]

Squeak, I have been thinking about my hiphop question and your assertion that you need an MPC or similar. The MPC is just a sampler and the Korg has a sampling option, you can construct your own kits and sounds, and is therefore the same (apart from the Akai filters and aledged 'swing' of the unit) or am I missing something here? Thanks

The MPC is a sampler, but it's going to give you WAY more options for sampling as compared to the Korg. With the MPC you can construct kits as well, and load in tons of samples and trigger them all with pads. There's a lot to the MPC. They are essential in HipHop production as a "hardware" unit. You can go software if you choose, but if you want the portable set up you'll need an MPC. There's also the new MPC-1000. Cheaper version of the big dog.

E-Mu actually had a BEAST for HipHop, that could be controlled via the pads or an external midi keyboard. I can't remember the model number though. There were severl models in the line. They all had the same design but differnt colors, and each one was geared for something different. I'll try and find that model number.

Squeak

From what I have gathered, people who do hip-hop love the MC 2000 (or newer models by Akai) because it enables them to sample bits of music and assign each sample to a different pad. Then, tapping on the pads, they say they can come out with interesting results.
This could be done with a Roland Fantom X as well, but they say that the Akai has a different groove, which is impossible to emulate with other samplers.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 09-30-2005).]

Squeak, I think it was the SP-12: it was famous for the grittiness of the sound, due to the 12 bit resolution of the sampler; too bad that EMU never expanded the RAM memory, making it less practical for today's music productions.

Yes the SP12 was and is revered by hiphop artists. The MPC has a groove to it that other sequencers do not have - I do not know if this is a subjective or objective opinion though. Other than that it is just a sampler with trigger pads and a sequencer, bought by the hiphop guys, many of whom were not musicians, as it was the only thing that did it at the time and Akai had become the industry standard in sampling not because they were the best but because they were the first cheap sampler that took off, just the same as ADAT. So as the PA1X does have a sampler and a sequencer that hiphop sound seems to be in reach if you can get the groove right - the sound creation obviously not being a problem either - shame that there are no decent hiphop styles bu that it wad the MC909, Korg Electribe series is all about. Commercially it might not make sense for these products to overlap too much so that they can sell more product. (I have an MC909 - and I am buying an arranger - ooops fell foul of their corporate strategy!)

No it wasn't the SP-12. I think the Model was called the E-Mu MP-7. It was an awsome model! Plus it didn't just have touch sensitive trigger pads, but the pads also had "aftertouch". I think their was also a ribbon controller. It was a great unit.

The MPC's are very popular for HipHop artists. Yeah some can say they're not musicians, but I have to disagree. Sure there are those who just take pre-recorded loops an samples, chop them up, mix them around and call it their own. However, there are a lot of good HipHop artists who are musicians. They create and write their own loops on a synth, and then transfer those loops to an MPC because the MPC is beast of a sampler and will allow them to do way more than their internal samplers on their keyboards.

Squeak

Squeak, I meant that they were not musicians in the traditional sense ie they cannot play a traditional instrument and this was one of the rationals behind the MPC. I agree that these days there are more instruuments that have different/more modern interfaces and that anyone who can work the interface can be called a musician regardless if it is an SP404 or a Steinway. PS have done some programming on the PA1X and you can get some great synth sounds - very urban. Have not tried to edit the drums yet but think that will be MC909 territory.

Here's a link with an indepth information regarding the MP-7.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov01/articles/emucomm.asp

Squeak

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/v...4e2f364d#105836

Squeak you have got to listen to this Hiphop sample made on an arranger! It is certainly of the style and tSharp has used some innovative tricks to pull this off.

Not bad. It appears this was done on a Korg PA1X. Personally That's the only arranger ( that I) would consider the best to use for HipHop. The sound engine is Triton based (way more suited for the style than Yamaha or Roland arrangers). Did he import his loop into the sampler of the PA1X (does it have this feature?)

I remember on my old Yamaha EX-7 I could record my own drum loop under the pattern sequencer, I could then enter the sampling mode and (sample internally), by bringing that loop into the sampler and then slicing and editing the hell out of it

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-02-2005).]