Let's go a step further and say the price is there to show the folks it's a serious machine - as opposed to the $199 one the listener's grandson has. Not that someone wouldn't buy a G70 or T2 for $1999, but it sure sends a signal that it's different than the entry or mid level models.

You know, I remember a time when an arranger instrument was an acoustic piano, a set of bass pedals and one of these;



Funny thing, there is a fellow still around town kicking pedals while playing an acoustic grand and he sometimes uses a Rhythm Ace (not the model above, but close) and you know what, it sound just fine.


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-09-2007).]

very few arranger or workstation players use more than a fraction of the sounds and styles that are available in today's units. yet they sell because the fraction they use are the ones that do it for them. i don't use many styles other than jazz, latin, blues, and funk--and i don't even much use those..mostly just bass/drums of the styles, and just a couple dozen of the hundreds of sounds. Yet.. I'm an active kb buyer--i don't reject a kb because it has archaic oompahpah or old german waltzes one one hand or modern rock, techno, hiphop, etc. on the other, and the notion that the presence of polkas or other non-modern sounds frightens off a younger buyer is spurious. unless you are talking of adolescents who happen to be extremely insecure..and that segment does not represent a major market for hi-end kb's, or automobiles. If the kb has enough of the styles/sounds the younger buyer wants, it will sell to that buyer regardless of what it has he doesn't want. the unhip "image" of arrangers has proliferated due to the lack of more modern styles, not the presence of older styles. The most damaging ad campaign of modern times was "this is NOT your father's Oldsmobile!" the phrase has lived on but the Olds died quickly after the ad campaign totally backfired. Instead of playing on the fact the Olds had been the best-selling car in the country for a stretch, and how and why their fathers and grandfathers loved it, it went for the anti-old, anti-daddy rebellion attitude..well, that demographic is age 12-16, not car-buying age..and those who would avoid a kb like the plague because older people like it too are 12-16..not your TOTL kb buyer. Just add to the existing kb's features, sounds, styles the younger buyers are looking for, forget "image"

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Miami Mo

You are right, especially considering that the Midjay has both an USB port AND an internal hard disk. The SD5 (and the SD3) look like repackaged stuff from the SD1 era;
however, if you are interested into buying one really cheap, check this link

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 08-10-2007).]

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[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 08-10-2007).]

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[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 08-10-2007).]

the SD5 comes shipped from Ketron USA with a USB adapter cable which plugs into the computer port on the back of the keyboard. This way you have access to transfering data back and forth from a computer.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

First of all, we all know how hard a sell it is, after talking a customer into an overpriced arranger, to then turn around and tell him if he wants more than the 5% of usable young biased styles, he is going to have to pay even MORE... LOTS more... going price for decent styles at least $10 each - 200+ styles in an arranger, you do the math!

Sale lost....

Secondly, as the potential market for current arrangers shrinks (none of us getting any younger... ), where do the arranger manufacturers think new sales are going to come from if they DON'T make the investment in new OSs, soundsets, and primarily, styles? Are they praying for a huge ballroom revival? Will schlager finally sweep America? Will Green Bay win the Superbowl and precipitate a Polka craze?

Sale lost...

Just imagine the case that if contemporary arrangers were stocked with 95% of styles only usable for 1880-1920's popular music. NO swing, no rock-and-roll, no bossanova, no funk, no rock, no disco. Do you think you could sell even ONE? THAT is what you are trying to do to young players...

If they don't make arrangers for the market they WANT, and stick to the shrinking market they have, this is marketing suicide. Adapt or die.

Industry lost...

Posted by:WDMcM
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Here's an idea, pick an arranger of your choice that has the ability to create custom styles and start programming. If you think there is such a market, you should be able to pick up some decent spare change by creating and selling these types of styles.
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Dave, sorry but that in itself IS the problem. You can't just record modern styles on many arrangers out there today. The problem is they lack the "sounds" to create these styles. The only keyboard on the market IMO that would even favor close (but not quite there) for modern styles would be the Korg PA's. You need a full synth engine and a REAL sampler built into the unit. One that will perform with "speed" and not take three days to load a sample **cough cough Yamaha**

I totally agree with Diki. As long as arrangers continue to be marketed towards the "older crowd" and are filled with more classic and traditional styles you're not going to get the attention of the younger crowd. It's also quite often the younger crowd that speaks so badly of arrangers too.

Think about it really. Even today's arrangers don't really even have modern versions of the styles already in the board. You don't get modern country, modern rock, or modern alternative music from an arranger. You simply get the more classic versions. Plus the boards that do have some modern classic styles really aren't quite there either because you get someone elses idea of this style rather than the industry version. You always get the ahhh, it's close, but not quite there feeling with those types of styles on arrangers.

Maybe the way to fix it is for the big three to hire "younger style writers"--those who are more in touch with those styles of music. Just a suggestion.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-10-2007).]

Also you have to be realistic too. Even if the big three put out modern pro arrangers it would still be a dead project because the younger crowd wouldn't pay the prices when you can get a modern synth for $1,000 or more less.

What I don't understand is how the makers go on and on about "oh so much work goes into the styles" so the price has to be high. Sorry I think that's utter bullcrap. When a rep tells me that the first thing I say is--have you ever tried to program a pro quality arp? I notice a lot of arranger owners seem to not understand how much work goes into creating this amazing arps on a synth. You think it's easy to make a guitar strumming arp that uses body noise, and other nuances, on top of having to program it to sound like a proper strum that utilizes both the up and down stroke raked in various ways????

Recording arps is like rocket science. Even a well known Yamaha rep such as Phil Clend. A.K.A (Bad_Mister) will agree to that. So much work goes into writing those and Yamaha is now using chord recognition with them. With all the work that goes into creating modern, up to date patterns, grooves, sounds, and arps you don't see the makers killing us with these high prices you find on a pro arranger... They don't price them high because they know the market wouldn't roll over and take it.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-10-2007).]