On www.rolandg70.com the samples can be found!

I took them during the live demo of Christian Jager at my dealer's shop October 30th.

Unfortunately the factory demo's are not available yet.



[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 11-02-2004).]

Thanks for the samples!

Luis Santos

Klasse!

Nice to hear these demo's, but the old styles were still used? The voices used where nice to hear..

It still sounds typically Roland..

[This message has been edited by Sander (edited 11-02-2004).]

More members wrote the styles are 'old' ones, I have no idea.
Perhaps the new ones are being developed right now?

Sander : Still planning to go...thursday?
I hope more samples will be available on Dacapo site.

I can't go thursday!!!! :'( :'(

My final presentation will take place then at school (Hanzehogeschool, Groningen).. I can't make it.. and that's a real bummer..

I agree with Sander. It sounds like a Roland. That harmonica screams Roland. Same with the sax The harmonica on the G-70 sounds just like the one on the XP-60/80. I'd love to hear factory demos when they're available.

Squeak

A good friend (known as Guillermo... also a member)just called me, telling he visited a G70 demonstration at Music All In at Noordwijk.
He was pretty impressed and it is obvious Roland and MAI put some extra effort in the prestation. (perhaps thanks to our critics?)

Much more was showed this time :

a. Sequencer/edit features (Cakewalk product!)

b. Lyrics and score displays,

c. Connecting a standard PC-keyboard to the G70 for entering lyrics etc.

d. Mega-voice alike sounds,

e. Two direction use of the keys, what means a sound (note) is generated during key-down move.... and a note is played at the key-up movement. (like playing a guitar : strike down/strike up)

f. Total (and easy) control of styles (instruments, volumes, effects etc)

....... etc.

The Roland employees are sure about the release date of the G70 before December 2004.
(All functions/features working)

So, much more than my impression was, is ready now..... a great relief

Guillermo is counting hís money now .... ...

Roel

Hello Roel,
Unfortunately I didn't make it at Noordwijk.,way too much workload at the moment.
Anyway by the time I can demo the unit, it probably will be in the shop and with a complete O/S.

What I did not see yet is the price?

Did they give you a pricequote?

Fred

Freddy,

As far as I know the 'adviesprijs' is 3499,- Euros. The (in Dutch) going-prijs is about 2900 Euro's (nettoprijs)

Roel

I also have not seen how much the G70 will weigh. I am sure they are still working on finalizing the software and such, but why not publicize the weight? Are they waiting to see how much the final version of software will add to the weight of the instrument ?

That acoustic piano demo is beautiful.
Starkeeper

Thanks Roel,

By the way tried a search not expecting anything...
http://www.preisroboter.de/ergebnis358026.html

Roel, Freddy,

I know that "Verspuy" in Rotterdam has a selling price of 2.775,- Euros, but "Van Beveren" in Gouda always guarantees the lowest price in Holland, so I guess you could get an even better deal there.

I am still in doubt, but will visit a second demo in Wijk bij Duurstede tonight by Christian Jager. So who knows my doubts will dissapear...

I'll let you know how the presentation goes tonight!

------------------
Tom NL

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 11-03-2004).]

Tom & Freddy,

I did not write 'my price' is 2900.... I would never pay going prices

It's important my dealer lives not too far from here. A one hour drive is max and I know those guys ...they know me...important !

Roel

Going prices

I never pay those either, but I allways do look for the lowest prices to create a healthy negotiating position with my local dealer. (he is 15 minutes from my house)

I know him for 30 years by now, so even if he does not have one in stock I just order with him anyway... Unless we cannot agree on the price...which untill now never happened.

Let us know Tom if Roland added another upgrade to the O/S.
I wait anyway till it's completed.

Fred

Some pics of the G70 demo
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mkalk/digitale_piano_handel.htm

Roel,
beautiful pictures! Which one are you?

He was taking the pictures, silly!

Oh.... I see!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-03-2004).]

Nice Tyros stand!

Arno.

Arno,
Oops..... fortunately it does not affect the sound. (Goed gezien overigens)

This keyboard looks like the EX series, which is NOT like the VA series.
zuki

Do you think the G70 has the Roland Fantom X Sound engine?

It has no doubt many of the Fantom X sounds, including the grand piano and the acoustic guitar. If you are interested into hearing some official Fantom X demos, go here: www.roland.it
then click on "Fantom X series", followed by "Demo interattiva"; at this point you will find a page entirely written in english and -on the left side- you will have all the demo songs. A couple of them (Still solace and Akebono) sport the new grand piano; on Still solace you can hear also an acoustic guitar.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by freddynl:
Let us know Tom if Roland added another upgrade to the O/S.
I wait anyway till it's completed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I visited a second demo of the Roland G-70 last night. The setting was in a small music theatre. As opposed to the demo in Rotterdam last Saturday this time the amplification was excellent and the instrument sounded much, much better. Although it was announced that Christian Jager would do the demo it was in fact Kristof Mertens again, with Christan assisting him. But he did a very good job, and in the nice atmosphere of the theatre they really took there time to explain everything you would like to know with the help of a Powerpoint demonstration, emphasizing that the G-70 contains the best of Roland's latest developments.

The repertoire of the demonstrator was the same, but since the PA system was a lot better you could evaluate the keyboard more fairly this time. After the demo there was plenty of opportunity to ask all you wanted to know to both of the Roland guys. For this purpose they even brought two G-70's!

In the demo I still found the organ sounds very "plain", so I asked Christian if the VK8 engine is really integrated in the G-70 without any concessions. He ensured me it absolutely was, and demonstrated al the parameters and registration possibilities. It just happens to be that this guy loves to play the VK8 and really excels in it. It was immediately clear that it really is the VK8/virtual tonewheels that's in there. It sounded really authentic. So it's (again) just a matter of registration and playing style. And the affinity of the musician with this particular type of sound of course. And yes, the grand piano is the really the best you heared.... But I also asked for the electric piano sounds and can confirm that they are also very good.

They upgraded the O/S on the keyboard and contrary to last week it didn't go wrong this time. The second board still had the old O/S and on that one the notes "got stuck" during playing and it had to be turned off and on.

Roland ensured us that it will absolutely be ready by the last week of this month when the first keyboards will by shipped. I asked if Roland deliberately wanted to put this keyboard on the marked as soon as possible and they confirmed this. Could this be a sign that Roland wants to beat the competition and they know some other top-arranger is also coming on the market real soon?
Strike one for Roland! ;-)

------------------
Tom NL

Tom,

Thank you so much for this review!
You made me a happier man.

Roel

Do folks in Noordwijk always look so "enthusiastic" when being shown a brand new top of the line Arranger; this one being the new G70 from Roland? You tell me...



The only one with a hint of satisfaction on his face is the Roland Demonstrator.

Or do Norwegians always have a look of consternation on their faces? Or should it be ?? Maybe the cold has something to do with it??

From that pic my first impression is the Roland G70 sure doesn't excite these people does it. Which makes me tend to think the G70's sounds are probably not as wonderful as we all hope they are. Also evidenced IMO by the people attending this demonstration.

PS: I hope I'm wrong about that assessment btw.

Where's the smiles?? Where's the look of enthusiastic facial expressions? Where's the gleeful ecstatic look of joyful surprise and wonderment from the supposedly awesome and stunningly realistic sounds emanating from the G70? Hummm?? Those people are a bunch of bumps on a log if you ask me.

Sorry, no offence to Norwegians in general. But the looks on their faces reminds me of a bunch of people being told by their Doctor that they all have 6 months to live......

Is this indicative of the sound quality of the G70? Let's hope not!

Here is more info on the G70:



Roland G70, the ultimate music workstation!

Roland is renowned for producing revolutionary keyboards and now reaches another historic milestone with the introduction of the G-70 Music Workstation. The G-70 incorporates concepts and technologies from across the entire Roland product range, resulting in an instrument epitomising the very best of Roland.
192 MB WAVE ROM
76 keys Pro-Action Keyboard
The best piano sound derived from Fantom-X
Virtual ToneWheel derived from VK organ
285 Styles
ACV - Adaptive Chord Voicing
SRX Expandability
Internal Memory 50MB (Solid State Disk)
DigiScore and Lyrics / Chord display on LCD
Makeup Tools / Cover for Songs and Styles
Vocal Harmonist
16 track Sequencer / 8 track Style composer with micro editing
7 independent effects sections
Full-color Touch Screen
9 Multi-function Sliders
USB connectivity
The best sound engine
The G-70 uses Roland’s most powerful sound engine ever. With its lightening-fast processor, 128-voice polyphony and 6 realtime performance parts, the G-70 will satisfy even the most demanding player.

The best sound quality
The quality of sound on the G-70 cannot fail to impress, as it uses the largest internal WAVE ROM in Roland keyboard history – 192 MB*. It boasts the best sounds from the Roland library, as well as the latest and most expressive piano sound Roland has ever produced, derived from Fantom-X. Many new studio-sampled guitars, accordion and other instrument sounds are also featured and give a fantastic live feel to arrangements.
* 16 bit linear equivalent.

SRX expandability
Roland’s SRX expansion board series offers a wide selection of the highest quality sounds, taken from the world’s top professional studios. The G-70 can be expanded in this way to give an even greater choice of sounds to the performer.

76-key Pro-Action Keyboard
The keyboard on the G-70 features a superb weighted Pro-Action, with aftertouch, which has a longer stroke and a natural responsive feel.

Harmonic Bars
The G-70 caters to the needs of organists by including 9 sliders which physically reproduce the feeling of playing a real Harmonic Bar Organ, using the renowned Virtual ToneWheel technology from Roland’s VK organ range. These sliders are linked to the 3D animated Virtual Harmonic Bars on the full-color LCD and can also be assigned to a variety of functions for a truly expressive performance.

Brand-new styles
The G-70’s arranger section includes 285 completely new styles, each with 4 variations, 4 intros, 4 endings, and 6 fill-ins, which exploit the full potential of the powerful sound engine. Many of these styles have been recorded using live studio musicians to create top-quality professional backings.

Cover / Makeup Tools for customizing styles [img]http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/acatalog/info_07R_M.jpg[/img]
The G-70 also includes the Cover and Makeup Tools from the DisCover series, allowing you to change instantly any part of your style or song. Thousands of different styles can be easily created using these features.

Adaptive Chord Voicing (ACV)
The greatest innovation in the arranger section is a new technology called “Adaptive Chord Voicing” (ACV). The technology is based on an intelligent real-time chord voicing for each accompaniment part, which creates a natural arrangement - each instrument in the style plays smooth musical lines instead of jumping to awkward intervals each time the chord is changed.
(The technology is patent pending)

Full-color LCD screen / DigiScore and lyric display [img]http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/acatalog/info_09R_M.jpg[/img]
A full-colour touch screen, complete with “click noise” to confirm actions, is also included for quick and simple operation.
The G-70 features a high-quality 4-stave score display, developed from the Atelier and HP-i products, as well as the facility to view chords and lyrics. This chord and lyric information can also be viewed on an external TV screen using the video output.

Data storage
The G-70 has a huge 50MB internal memory(Solid State Disk), a floppy disk drive, and a memory card slot that supports many current devices, such as Smart Media and Compact Flash.

Effects and mastering
There are 7 independent effects sections on the G-70, including dedicated sections for the Harmonic Bars, Harmonist and the External Audio Input. Mastering tools derived from the renowned VS Pro Audio range are also included for even greater control.
Harmonist

[img]http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/acatalog/info_12R_M.jpg[/img]

The Vocal Harmonist on the G-70 has over 90 different settings and many additional effects and features, including Auto Pitch Correct and Vocoder.

Music Assistant
The correct sounds, style, tempo and effects are automatically selected for each of the hundreds well-known songs on the Music Assistant database, to which new songs can now be added as required.

16 track sequencer / 8 track style composer [img]http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/acatalog/info_14R_M.jpg[/img]
The full 16-track sequencer and the internal style composer can be edited in precise detail using Microscope edit functions.

Quick search
Quick search is an essential for the keyboard that has a huge database inside. The G-70 offers the direct Finder function for quick recall of your next User Program, Style or Song.

USB
For easy file exchange and MIDI transfer to PC, the USB connector is provided.

"The specifications are subject to change without notice."
________________________________________________________
Best regards,
Mike

[QUOTE I asked if Roland deliberately wanted to put this keyboard on the marked as soon as possible and they confirmed this. Could this be a sign that Roland wants to beat the competition and they know some other top-arranger is also coming on the market real soon?
Strike one for Roland! ;-)

------------------


tom,theres been some talk about the tyros 2 coming out soon,on another site,if thats true,and roland know about it,that would make sense for roland to rush it out,maybe steve from yamaha (not heard fom you for a while) will let out some info,cause some tyros owners maybe tempted to switch,mike[/B][/QUOTE]

Mike,

This picture is taken at the first Oostendorp-demo. Most of the people got a little frustrated about the Roland-guy, that is why nobody smiles.

Ah, those norwegians....

For once and for always; the Netherlands will never be (I suppose ) Norway!


[This message has been edited by Sander (edited 11-04-2004).]

Well Mike, I think it is time for a little apology to us Norwegians, don't you think. Time for camel eating...


------------------
Roy-Andrè

Hi Sander,
Ik had enkel pret met onze vriend Mike...

(... drdalet, what do you think? Did I get that right?)

Mike,

just because Bush doesn't know his geography (and not only that I'm afraid) you don't have to show so blatantly overhere your geopgraphical ignorance, no offence.
As a matter of fact if you had put in a little effort here you might have known Roel
and many more here are DUTCH, and so was the origin of the pictures.
best wishes,
john

John, Geographical

Whoop Whoop Whoop !!!!!!
Illegal use of politics in a music forum !!!

C'mon ..... don't go there guys !

It's a huge temptation, that's for sure. But we are resisting surprisingly well, like big grown up boys and girls

Now, about the G70, does anybody know a little more about this "Adaptive Chord Voicing" (ACV)?

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 11-05-2004).]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Route 66:
Now, about the G70, does anybody know a little more about this "Adaptive Chord Voicing" (ACV)?
-- José.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi José,

I tried to explain about Adaptive Chord Voicing in another thread. This is my quote
----------
"He also explained about the “Adaptive Chord Voicing”. It's not easy for me to explain in English but I'll try. This feature looks for shared or common notes from a previous chord when you play a new chord. I prevents unnatural "jumps" in the highest note of for instance the strings or brass in a style. Instead it plays it like the accompaniment was arranged for the chord progression of your song.

Tom.

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 11-05-2004).]

Hi Tom & Jose,

I believe Roland's auto accompaniment 'adaptive voicing' feature attempts to produce: SMOOTH VOICE LEADING.

That is, when you play a chord progression, the Roland technology figures out the best closest auto accomp note lines and/or chord voicings to play for each accompaiment instrument (bass, piano, strings, etc). This is IMPORTANT to achive for any rhythm section (live or auto accomp). Nothing is worse than playing with a band where the keyboard player jumps about the chords. Smooth inner voicings chord changes are essential, especially on ballads.

Scott

Hmmm... what did we do wrong now Andrea?
GJ

Sorry Gunnar,
I should have written "norwegians" instead...
You know that I love you vikings!

Scott,

You're right, that is exactly what 'adaptive voicing' does. I would say it makes the notes in a style play much more natural, like a composer would arrange it with the chords of your song.

It's a bit technical and my high school English is a somewhat of an obstacle here...

By the way, in the demo I visited they showed more of the style makeup tools. I think this is a very quick and effective way of altering the styles. In fact, with each style you can choose from 30 alternative drum kits or 30 different instrument settings, or change them both at the same time. It makes the arrangement sound completely different. Mmm 285 X 30 = well..... a lot!

I think of waiting for an opportunity to check out the styles myself in the music store before actually buying the instrument. They are such an important part of the whole package.

------------------
Tom NL

Hei Gunnar Jonny, where have you been??
I'm left alone here fighting our nations interest! :P

------------------
Roy-Andrè

Hehe, yes I know Andrea, but we're eating
as much Pizza and Pasta in this country
now that we're almost Italians

Hi Roy-Andrè
I'm peeking in almost every day to see what
happens, but not much participation at the
moment.
Really nice to see other Norwegians than me
at SZ. Keep up the good work.

Happy playing
GJ

Btw, the new G70 looks interesting,
spesially now when there is no new
Technics KN's on the way.......

If the Adaptive Chord Voicing (ACV) works as advertised then Roland probably has struck "gold" with the G70.

One of the main 'hiccups' in an Arranger Keyboard IMO is smooth transition (or lack thereof) when playing in Accompaniment mode. Using Styles while you play along with Melody & Chords {normal stuff for OMB's, right? }, can and is a challenge to be able to 'seamlessly' have the music "flow", i.e. no jerks, glitches, hiccups, etc. to where the music doesn't flow naturally. Roland's use of Adaptive Chord Voicing should hopefully eliminate that stifling aspect of Arrangers while playing in Accompaniment mode and being able to have the music flow naturally and smoothly, i.e. seamlessly.

I know a lot of it depends on the Player himself; in his or her skill and ability to play with precise timing to cut down on the music not flowing naturally with no musical bumps in the road so to speak.

With the Adaptive Chord Voicing less attention will seem to be needed to keep the music flowing naturally with precise timing while playing, as the G70 itself will allow for smooth and natural transition between Chord changes in Arranger mode using the Adaptive Chord Voicing feature. At least in theory it should do so. If it works as advertised it should help sales significantly IMO and should give G70 owners a "one up" on the OMB competition since it allows your music to sound more like "real" and lifelike sounding Audio, instead of canned and mechanical sounding music that is sometimes apparent in Arranger keyboards.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-06-2004).]

Question: is adaptive chord voicing mainly for those who use "one-finger" techniques for chords or who always play chords in root position? What value would it be to someone like Scott Yee who plays the appropriate chord voicings for given progressions in the first place?

Good question Clif. Anybody???

Best regards,
Mike

I guess that we all have to wait and see how this "adaptative chord voicing" works; any further comments in this phase would be just speculation or wishful thinking on our part.

Mike, what about a little apology with both the dutch and the norwegian members of our Forum? In my opinion you succeeded in the not-so-easy task of killing two birds with one stone, i.e. offending TWO countries with just one posting.
I am impressed!

Hi Clif, though of course I don't positively know the answer either, I suspect that the adaptive chord voicing feature works with any of the fingering chord recognition types. Adaptive chord voicing doesn't change or affect the sound of what you playing live, but instead figures out & provides the best AUTO ACCOMPANIMENT to include smoother (more musical) voice leading . If, in full fingered mode, you have the LEFT voice turned on, and only play (jumping about) to ROOT position chords, that is still what will be heard. I don't believe the adaptive chord voicing feature corrects that. But then again, with the advent of "Performance Assist" on the Yamaha PSR3000, I suppose anything is possible. - Scott

I always was wondering how many readers/members the synthzone has.

Just got a mail from my dealer telling the number of hits on www.rolandg70.com since the anouncement of the G70 news/samples.

For october 14000 ! (only the last week)
For november 30000 hits. (only in the first week)

So the family is not limited to the (active) members but much much bigger.

Ciao Roel
i dont think so..
In October they get only 35 visit and 419 hits
In november 195 visit and 3294 hits...
here is the link stats: http://www.rolandg70.com/webstat/

A lot of difference for what you say.
domenik

Thanks! I see, the numbers are not correct... I'm sorry for that.

I can be wrong but isn't there a word 'daily' and 'monthly' total in the sheet-headers?

October 13000 hits
November 23000 hits
Still encredible... how many people came to the site through synthzone, don't you think ?

btw :
Your company seems to be shipping since a few months?
Can I visit a Dutch or German dealer that is able to show me the Mediastation? (the current video demo is of poor quality too)



[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 11-07-2004).]

Are those Page views or unique users?

Page hits are mis-leading. If someone visits your site and keeps hitting refresh in the browser, they will generate a page hit!

In practice it's impossible to determine if different hits correspond to different users. One way of removing some incertainty is to check the computer IP accessing the site, but even then: 1) many users can 'hide' behind a single IP (local network behind a firewall); 2) one user is certainly responsible for many hits (several pages) in a site and can be a regular visitor. And, of course, what kbrkr writes is also true.

I think a more realistic idea of the site's popularity can be probably drawn from the orange bar, at the right side of the first pic (numbers not in the table, and a little smaller than the yellow visits bar).

It's amazing how easy it is to misinterpret 'statistic results', or in worst cases, how much manipulation can be done with this 'clean science' (not the present case, I'm sure about it!). A classic and very fun to read book about this topic is Darrell Huff's "How to Lie With Statistics".

This being said, I'm sure G70 will be a big 'hit'!

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 11-08-2004).]

Thanks José,

What I only tried to say is how many readers this forum has and the impact of anouncing some news. (from almost no hits, to a huge amount)

Is there a way to see the actual visits of this forum ?

Roel

Andrea,

Let me start by saying I had no intention by my words of offending anyone let alone killing two birds with one stone as you describe.

Aren't people in Norway considered Norwegians? My statement was concerning people which I thought were in Noordwijk, which is in Norway, no?

Believe me Andrea, there was no bitterness or ill will directed towards anybody in my statements. I was simply telling a "matter of fact" statement (something that I preceived by observation) and I was trying to do it in a joking way, as you should be able to tell by the use of my smilies.

I think something got lost in the translation as they say.

I realize that if you are not of American descent and haven't grown up speaking English in America then it can be difficult to correctly analyze and decipher the underlying intent of our writings in some instances... Like the one I wrote. Which I'm sure would be the same scenario for me trying to correctly decipher Italian's lingo and their underlying intent in some cases, even though they do speak English.

So let me say it again Doctor , there was no 'ill' feelings at all toward anybody in my post. Just for the record.... You do keep records, don't you Andrea?

Being a Pediatrician they should be a mile high or so I would reckon.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,
I appreciate your words and thank you for taking the time to write them.
I thought (erroneously) that it was apparent to everybody that Roel (the starter of this topic) is not norwegian, but dutch instead, so norwegians had NOTHING to do with the G70 demo and the pictures Roel posted.
I realize that sometimes you have a very "light" way to take things.... should we all consider this as a reason for not being "liable" for what you write? Would you be happy this way?
Now, just to give you an example, I am NOT a pediatrician, and my profile clearly shows my specialization!
Best regards
Andrea

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 11-11-2004).]

Well Mike, if you browse the net for Noordwijk, you get a minimum of 50 pages of Noordwijk HOLLAND, IOW The Netherlands. You speak about analyzing and deciphering the language. I can tell you I have spent a total of 6,5 years in the States and been married to a british lady for 8 years. I would say you missed with your posting.
I shall agree with you, the people on the demo did look miserable, but don't try to tap dance away from the fact that you goofed when trying to translate Noordwijk into Norway. An unconditional retreat was your best way out, and you missed the opportunity.


------------------
Roy-Andrè

Hmmm... and who said the Norwegians do not
smile now and then? Btw, it's me in the
middle
GJ

Geesh..... My Geography happens to be a "little" off. Sorry for the slight geographical error.

I guess "Hollanders??" not only don't smile much they also don't know how to take a little 'ribbing' when they read it.

For those who don't know what ribbing means(loose translation): it is a lighthearted attempt to make something humorous out of a situation, in this case all the frowns on the faces of those Hollanders.

I stated in my recent post above what my true feelings were towards those Hollanders in Noordwijk or any other people in the Netherlands and that is my writings were meant no harm. If if makes any of my SZ members over the pond happier I apologize if they feel hurt by my words.

You know they say "laughter" is the best medicine. Try to truly laugh without smiling. Can it be done? Maybe the people in the Netherlands would fare better if they smiled more? Just a thought..

Peace

Best regards,
Mike

What happened to talking about the G70 ?

Let's all try to get on together....
There is too much bad feeling in the world already..... Lighten up everyone...Cheers

Oops!

You just went from a Baby Doctor to a Gland and Hormone Doctor! I hope your colleagues don't mind btw.

Perdoni la mia ignoranza!

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-11-2004).]

Well jdx, if you have any more news about the G-70, let us know!

------------------
Roy-Andrè

Well Roy..
The only news I know that has not been posted is that here in the U.K. the price will be non negotiable...
So every dealer will be obliged to charge the full retail price..
I was told this by Roland U.K.

That will never happen! ( in my opinion of course).
DonM

Well, I have something more te tell:

At the demo at Musik-Produktiv at Ibbenbüren (Germanny) was Ralf Schink playing and he did a GREAT JOB!
The G70 had some problems and it is caused by a mechanical problem :
Pushing the intro-/fill-in buttons area causes the Printed Cicuit Board to bend a little and shorts electronic circuits....the reason why G70 reboots.

Is this because dealers are not allowed to underbid each other you think?
Maybe when Tyros 2 comes, that policy will vanish. Like Don says, in the US you never ever pay the full price on anything to do with musical instruments. Maybe you do, but it's hidden as a "deal" anyhow!
The glitch when hitting the intro/fill button sounds scary considering it's just about to hit the streets...:O


------------------
Roy-Andrè

I was told by Roland that the G70 will be sold as follows.
Dealer has a Demonstration model supplied free. from this he takes the order and the customer makes payment direct to Roland who then ships it direct to the customer.
With the above arrangement Roland have control of it's selling price and the Dealer always obtains his full profit. This stops individual Dealers from discounting. A policy I am sure will have full Dealer support.

In that case only the dealers that offer/supply the most/best accessories with the keyboards will have the most customers.
I would go for : HQ keyboard stand, expensive leather seat, microphone, speakers.... at least !

The competition-issue will change from keyboard to extras..... so what do they/we win ?

I would NEVER.... repeat NEVER pay ahead, without having the keyboard 'in my hand'.

DITTO !

Chico

Roel, Chico: I assume that you never bought in an online store (with a credit card)... In my case it's unthinkable not equating the possibility of an online purchase. It's true that all three pro arrangers I had were bought 'directly' (keys against money ), after a careful prospecting process, but I am too isolated to neglect the online purchase route.
-- José.

José,

Perhaps I belong to the 'lucky ones' living not too isolated..... in fact The Netherlands are really small

I did some Online purchases, but paying these amounts of money and hoping some day the machine arrives..... no way !

The next step could be 'elimination of dealers' .... who will need them in future if Roland wants equipment returned to factory for repairs.

I'm interested to know if this Roland deal is unique to the UK.

The world is a much smaller place now due to the Internet and also to much cheaper travel etc. I bought a Ketron XD3 when they first came out and all 4 dealers (that I could find) in the UK wanted full retail for this brand new product at the time. As you guys have already said, no-one pays full retail for musical instruments so I bought from Belgium at just HALF the price it was in England including VAT and delivery - Sure, it's a bit further to send for a repair but unless Roland make this policy worldwide then there will be people willing to deal with "grey imports" like myself.

I'd like to mention that I have found their UK support somewhat lacking and their documentation difficult but this has not stopped me from buying or really liking Roland stuff in the past nor will their price fixing approach stop me in the future.

Perhaps, as already mentioned, the "old dog of a keyboard" trade in approach gives dealers a chance to differentiate on pricing.

Incidently, You can get a new Tyros in the UK for a smidge inder £1800 although there are plenty of dealers selling for more and adding "value" such as support and freebies.
I know that lots of people support their local dealers and that is great for them as they get what they want from their deals but I need competitive pricing, not neccassarily the cheapest deal but a deal that suits me.

Just my own (selfish) two peeeees worth.

KF

KF,normally i would agree with you,i,m from london but retired to spain,cause i get my income in £££ i lose over 15% changing my dough to euros,if i buy a keyboard here its nearly always recomended retail price,so i would end paying over 15% extra,so i ordered a psr3000 in uk(paying with ££££) even though i paid £85 delivery i,m still saving money,mike,,,,ps.maybe i should have tried belgium.

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 11-15-2004).]