Would anyone with a T3 please upload the new pianos to the Purgatory Creek site?
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.html

For those that haven't been there, it's a site where the EXACT same piano MIDI file, with lots of dynamics and range, is played through almost every single keyboard and VSTi for direct comparison.

I would be VERY interested in HEARING the new piano sets on the T3, rather than just READING about their sound, positive or negative.

Only a direct apples to apples site like this gives us all the opportunity to objectively compare one to another, and simply make our own minds up...
-------------------------------------------------

BTW, please turn OFF all compressors, EQ's and processing (a little reverb is acceptable) so we can hear the unaffected sound...

Just curious. Anyone know what is the consensus best?

chas

I don't think there IS a 'consensus best'... Just like real pianos

Some of us like Steinway's, some of us like Yamaha's some of us like Bosendorfer's, some of us are happy with our Samick uprights.

But one thing the site does exceptionally well is to give you a baseline for comparison. Some of the TOTL VSTi's are amazingly expressive, dynamic and realistic (and some aren't, IMO ). Take whatever gives you the best overall impression of listening to a REAL piano (and there IS an audio file of roughly the same piece played on a real Steinway for comparison), then start to listen to the arranger pianos, one by one.

Whichever gives YOU the same feeling, or close, is the one that's right for YOU. But just like real pianos, we all have our differences...

Personally, I look for the quieter dynamics to give you the warmth that a real piano does. All too many sampled pianos, especially ROM ones in arrangers and cheaper keyboards, tend to sound more distant when played quietly, rather than close up and warm, as if the piano moved back five or ten feet rather than stayed exactly where it is for the loud passages.

But that's just me... others like to cut through a mix no matter HOW quietly they play! Best of luck doing that on a REAL piano...!

Right now, my ROM ne plus ultra is still the FantomX/G70 Ultimate Grand. There are simply details of the quieter inner voices I just can't make out on other ROM pianos. I like it better than some of the VSTi's and GIGA sized libraries, to be honest...

All I encourage anyone to do before they make up their minds is to play a REAL piano for a bit before you decide. It is all too easy to get used to the brittle, over-hyped ROM pianos, and forget what a warm (but still sparkly at high ff levels) sound a real piano has...

https://www.yousendit.com/download/WnBUaXRBMm0wZ2wzZUE9PQ

I couldn't upload a sample on site so here is Acoustica Pianissimo demo..

You got that one, Fran? Care to run P.Creek on it?

Whole point is to have the SAME piece played the same way... (and user submitted, so the manufacturer doesn't hype the sound )

Here's the Ty3 Concert Grand playing the PCreek midi.
Left the reverb as set by PCreek - Hall1 at 40.
Apart from that - No enhancements to the Preset voice.
Master EQ Flat, Compressor off.
Midi played and sound recorded simultaneously to the onboard Audio Hard Disk Recorder.
Exported as .wav.
Then into Audacity on PC, then exported as .mp3 (192)
No normalisation or amplification nor other enhancements to the audio file.
http://www.box.net/shared/u24k7vgvqf

How's it sound?

John

Thanks John,
It's amazing how well the Concert Grand actually sounds when played as a piano i.e. two handed playing, due to it's good low and high ends.

The deficiencies show up IMO when played as an arranger using the piano as a solo voice with the right hand.
I guess that's why Yamaha used the Concert Grand as a solo voice in so many OTS settings - NOT...
If it sounded as good, as Yamaha would have you believe, one would think it would be featured quite extensively as a solo voice within their OTS, which it is not, and the reason???

It would be interesting to compare the Live Grand from the T2 with your same setup, apples with apples so to speak.

Chris

Thanks for the upload.

Don't wish to be flamed, but after listening to that I just have to share my opinion. It's a lovely sound for sure, but it sounds so sterile that it feels thin and cold. I just feel that the body to the instrument has been lost.

Not my cup of tea.

Regards.
James.

Thanks, John... Very kind of you to do this.

To my ears, it reminds me a bit of the older Korg piano samples. There's a very pronounced quick decay of the initial sound, very 'spiky'. IMHO, the piano doesn't really 'sing', it sort of 'barks'.

Great for cutting through a mix, but it still doesn't give me the impression of sitting at a REAL grand.

Play this file, then the UltimateGrand from the FantomX at P.Creek. That's what I'm talking about...

Would you like me to submit this file to P.Creek, John, or will you do it yourself?

For someone who wants some reference:
I recorded 4 Fantom-G piano's. Every piano which i recorded is also available in different tastes (HM-Grand > HM-Grand1, HM-Grand2 etc.), but it takes too long to record them all. You need Winrar to unpack it:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=bVlBdFdiTERvQUozZUE9PQ

Not bad. Heard worse.

And for for a shameless promotion.

Here's a Tyros 2 playing back my own Sampled Concert Grand.
CLICK ME

Which can be purchased here.
CLICK ME

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 01-06-2009).]

James... is that the default amount of 40 on the reverb?

The piano sounds quite nice, but I can't get past the reverb it is drenched in. It kind of blurs the detail in what otherwise seems a considerable improvement on the stock piano...

How many MB is it, BTW?

Not likely, and to be honest I can't remember what the setting is at.

It's open a good bit for sure, but like anything it can be adjusted. Personally, I have a thing for a wet sound as it make is sound more live than recorded, but hey... each to their own.

A piano is like a pretty girl. Everyone has their tastes and preferences.

As for size, I believe it's just under 90MB. Yeah, it's a big sucker :-)

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 01-06-2009).]

Very nice. Like Diki, I find the reverb a little too much, but I must say I really like the mid and high end...very robust, yet still nice and punchy.

It must be even nicer with a weighted action.

Ian

James a spendid job!!...I really enjoyed listening to your songs...Bravo!!

Two quick little tunes for the road :-)
This is me playing my latest 5 Layer Yamaha C2 Piano.

Click Me

And the last one is my Yamaha CP 80 which is again a 5 layer Piano. This is also the same sequence I recorded for the first 5 Layer above only this time with the CP80 piano.

Click Me

These are big boys (over 400MB) though and only available for the OASYS.

Got to love that tune though :-)

Regards.
James.

James again ......

Very nice & both were very different regarding the sound......
#1 bright & crisp.....#2 a bit darker, warmer & mellow.


Thanx for sharing your work

James,
Very, Very nice work indeed!

I loved the demos. My kind of music for sure! Inspires me to practice more...

Thanks for sharing here...and see you on the PA, M3, Sampling etc forums...

Lee

I'd appreciate it if you could you submit it Diki, please. I had a look around on the site but the info doesn't exactly spring out, and any links didn't seem (to me) to lead anywhere in that respect.

Many thanks to those who commented. This piano voice has received a lot more attention because of expectations engendered by Yamaha when introducing Ty3, (and incidentally backed by what you see whenever you press the info button when the voice is loaded.)
Consequently it's surprising to me that it doesn't stack up more eg. exhibit more vibrancy on the one hand or a level of "warm refinement" (suitable for an English living room -lol!)that we might have expected.
Re cutting through the mix, yes it'll do that and I'll still use it occasionally for providing a different character (from the LiveGrand) in Jazz treatments of some songs.
The LiveGrand seems to have more presence in Ty3 than it had in Ty2 and can be made to sing more as you might want.

As suggested I've now uploaded that one as a comparison.
http://www.box.net/shared/aikeyqd9r1


Conditions are the same as with the ConcGrand, except I did Normalize the Audio (in the recorder on Ty3) The wave spikes are less prominent than with the ConcGrand and there was plenty of headroom to do it.

I prefer the Live Grand but don't use it at default settings (as the above is).
It has a bit more mid range EQ added, more noticeable reverb, and it's edited in the
PC software to exaggerate the stereo for a wider sound (lower notes progressively more to left, higher more to the right).
It can be mellowed down if needed by using the mod. wheel.

Together with a 4 speaker stereo x2 system it sounds as if there's a piano actually in the room- (like the sound of it or not)

John


[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 01-07-2009).]

OK, I'll email them...

Thanks for all the work.

Curious. None of the links on the site to email work.

I sent it anyway. I'll see if it comes back...

I hope they can continue this site. It would be a tragedy to lose the files.

BTW, yes, that Live Grand edit does seem to sing a bit better than the T2 version...

OK thanks on all counts Diki

John

PS just to be clear, the Ty3 LiveGrand voice was straight OOTB - just as the ConcGrand was, for direct comparison.


(I just mentioned the edited version which I use for my own purposes)
J

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 01-07-2009).]

Duplicate


[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 01-07-2009).]

Just as a side note, John, as long as the normalize function works correctly, it's a good thing to do to ANY recording. All it is supposed to do is find the highest peak in the piece, and then turn everything up until that JUST hits 0db (or on some software, any level below zero as well). So, in theory, you are not altering the file at all other than mere gain.

But it helps to take a look at the waveform in an editor (Audacity is a good free one) to make sure the process is not clipping anywhere. This will look like someone took a knife and sliced off the top of the waveform somewhere (you may have to zoom in a bit to see some). I never trust a function until I have double checked it...

Take a look at the un-normalized file too. Make sure that there is no clipping BEFORE the normalization process. How could this happen, you ask? Possible causes could be internal DSP effects being overloaded, and overall level higher than the D/A's can handle (though this should not happen in a good design, but massive EQ boosts might be able to make it happen).

Clipping doesn't ALWAYS happen at the main outs!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-07-2009).]

jwyvern,
Thanks for that John.
The T1/T2 Live Grand which luckily Yamaha have kept on the T3, is without doubt a cleaner more even sound, although IMO still a little thin but much more usable than that Concert Grand thing on the T3 and as you say the Live Grand sounds more “live” on the T3.
As far as standing out in the mix the Live Grand sparkles, whereas the Concert Grand although it does cut through, doesn’t quite have the same presence.

It's such a shame because the new T3 Concert Grand piano could have been SO much better, after all the last octave C5 up is really very nice as is the lower register (very rich), it’s just such a shame about the rest of it.
I’ll also use it on occasions, but I find playing an octave higher where possible helps avoid that horrible mid range “Toy Piano” sound that I find so irksome.

Chris.

Still no T3 on P.Creek? Is this site still taking submissions? I submitted the file as well, and no response. I would like to know what you all think is the "best" piano performance on that site from a hardware instrument. Even among Arranger player, I doubt you can come up with a concensus (a challange). I would be happy to tweak the Concert Grand or even request a downloadable piano voice(no promises), if there was a concensus. Without a concensus, I have no idea what to try.

Regards,

Steve Deming