List $6249.00
MAP $4999.00



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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Sorry, didn't see George's post

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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

that's $1,000 too expensive in my opinion

Frank,
Ted did not give me a retail price, but rather a cost and map and based on all other Korg and Yamaha models , once you know the cost, the retail price would be a lot higher than the numbers he gave you. I'm just using industry standards of a "B" mark on keyboards.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Nice, 2xPA800.

Norway:

Currency of today.

List: US$ 9048 (NKR 59990)
Map: US$ 7690 (NKR 50990)

And you complaint about the price ???

GJ

I wonder who they think their target audience is at that price? I heard the Audya at the Jam and unless I am really missing something I doubt if I would spend 5 grand on it. Perhaps those who actually get one will be able to explain how it is worth that much when there are several TOTL keyboards from other manufacturers that more than meet the demands of most players.

hammer

maybe they are selling it by the weight ?

Then my G70 is worth a fortune...

As I've said before, if the Audya had EVERYTHING from the current TOTL arrangers from Yamaha, Korg and Roland, and THEN added all the other bells and whistles it has, it might be worth that price. But the lack of so many common and much used things from those less expensive arrangers leaves it worth no more than a T3, IMO.

Sure, it sounds great OOTB. But, just as the SD-1 had very few ROM quality 'live loop' styles added to it after release, it is expecting a lot to imagine the Audya will be much different. And all the guitar loops are in ROM (not RAM), so what you get is what you are stuck with. So, if it is PERFECT for you OOTB, and you don't anticipate needing to expand it's style library much (if at all), maybe, just maybe, this could be your 'desert island arranger' and be worth the price.

But if, like me, you have a very wide range of stylistic needs, constantly changing, the Audya's non-existent style editing and creating tools, and lack of past performance at creating new styles, this seems an awfully expensive preset machine. One normally equates LESS choice and capability with less price, not more...

And if the guitar loop feature streamed, and worked the way it was hyped up to, all chord types, all extensions, and easy import of other guitar style loops, bass loops, etc., then it's price would be a bargain! But sadly, Ketron bit off more than current technology easily allows in realtime. Perhaps in another computer generation or two what they promised and failed to deliver will be doable...

Until then.... close, but no cigar

Tyros 3 MAP $3999 . 61 keys and made of plastic .I believe a hard drive was not included with Tyros and only comes with 1/4 mic input. 2 outputs

How much did yamaha spend to develop some totally revolutionary over the T2 or T1 ?

Audya - 76 keys, 2 XLR inputs with effects on each, the possibility of 8 stereo outputs,hard drive on board, made of steel , not plastic. I don't think $1000 difference in MAP is really to far fetched or rediculous. It is new technoloy ...

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 04-23-2009).]

I've always been a big fan of the Ketron styles, midi file playback sound and the bass and drum sound. I always use the MiDJay for midi file playback.

So now the Audya is a midjay plus, a SD1+, all with new sounds, styles, vocal processor, USB, accessable hard drive, sliders, live player audio loops.

the SD1+ was sold for about $3000, the Midjay plus for $1800, that comes out to be $4800.

So the convience factor of being in 1 machine and the updated operating system, I can see the value and I am already a fan based on the past Ketron products.

As most of you know I have had my personal Audya on order for almost 2 years, so I am truely a believer before even getting a chance to put it through it paces.

I will put it up against the PA2xpro, adn Tyros 3 next week, so if there are any comparison audio or video let me know, I'm sure they will be very interesting



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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Dan,
The Tyros3 does come with an 80GB hard drive.
Look everyone, there are many players around the world that will buy a new model Ketron just because they are Ketron Users and they love the sounds, interface, etc. of Ketron keyboards. Then, there are those that need a great keyboard, price is a concern as well and they won't be interested in the Audya. That's the way it's been. I have customers right now that will buy the Audya at the $5000.00 price and be happy to have Ketron's latest and greatest. And I have those that will save some money and buy the Korg or Yamaha offerings. It's always been this way with Ketron products. Right now I'm selling an SD5 to a local customer who took home a Korg PA2X, already owns a Yamaha 900 and all he wants is an SD5. He has a friend with one and they love the styles and sounds. He would have bought an Audya today if I had one!


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

George is correct.

I have 5 customers that want to purchase the Audya without even hearing it. at $5000 you would think they would want to try it out first.



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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Audya no good - costs too much.
Podiums no good - don't cost enough.
Bose no good - costs too much, etc.
I'm glad I trust my own opinions-no one else's.
DonM

I was just trying to point out some of the physical build of the keyboard vs Yamaha.

everyone has their own taste. some will like it some will hate it. Doesn't mean your right or wrong.

Just like the Bose thing, people swear by it or say they hate it, but they are still selling.

So you say the Audya is too expensive, of course it is, and so is a Ferrari, a house in the Hamptons, my knowledge and good looks, but so is everything good

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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Sorry Dan, but what of that is revolutionary? Steel? Kurzweil, even my G70 has that. Been there, done that, everybody bitches about the weight...

Multiple XLR inputs? Are there separate harmony generators for each? No, there aren't. So where is the value to a duo...? Not to mention, the OMB seems to be the main reason d'etre of the arranger. Plenty with single XLR inputs (and line ins too). Seems hardly 'revolutionary' or new.

Multiple outputs? Not new, Got four on my G70, rarely use them. Got eight (ten, really, plus digitals) on my Kurzweil. Rarely use them... Definitely not new.

HD? Not new. As was pointed out, the nearly $2k less T3 has one (MAP seems to be just the jumping off point). My G70 has a 50MB solid state HD (FAR better than a conventional HD for seek times and loading)...

And, let us not forget, all these so called 'new' technologies exist (and have existed for ages) in WS's that cost a THIRD or the Audya's price.

76 keys... G70 PA2Xpro At LEAST $1500 less.

But where are the style creation, style editing, sequence editing tools, voice editing tools, sampler tools, yada yada yada..? Nothing new there, either, sadly. Ketron make some very good 'preset' arrangers, but if you want to edit your styles, create new ones, 'morph' styles together, tweak them to be how YOU want them, etc., and have a vast selection of third party and user edited styles, you may have to use one of those poor, 'cheap' arrangers!

Look, of course SOME people will order this sight unseen. They buy Hummers and Lamborghini's too, unseen. But back in the REAL world, of OMB's and working gigging musicians, the cost of something has to have SOME impact, shouldn't it? If not, contact me. I have some land for sale at vastly inflated prices too... what does it matter that it floods from time to time?

Who's world yours? I can't begin to tell you how many European players and yes the ones here in the states that use Ketron. you seem to forget not all OMB's are Americans’.

There is a large Portuguese musical community just in NY/NJ not including CT, RI, MASS, CA and Florida that use ketrons. I have of bunch of buddies that have either the xd9 or sd1 waiting for Audya to be released. They can't wait and are willing to drop the 5k for it. Many of the Italian OMB's also use ketrons. You also mention the G70, its almost five years old, if they ever replace it. do you think that it will sell for $3400 again, no chance and the pa2x, core styles are from the pa80.

There's always the option not to buy it,

Also I always wondered have you ever tried a ketron?



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 04-23-2009).]

I wasn't saying that multiple outputs were new and I don't care if you have never used your outputs either.

I was simply trying to make a statement to say that the Ketron Audya, at least in materials , plus the thought that some musicians /people, other than yourself, may be able to utilize the outputs (me)and 2 XLR mic inputs (me), enjoy the 76 keys which in turn can justify a price point vs. the Tyros at $3999.00 and made of plastic.

So your informed, the only thing ketron didn't do from what I remember was the style morph. everything else, style editing, creation, voice editing it was all there and they had a big style library that can be ordered. As far as third party styles never had a problem finding anything.

Since when?

None of that ... yet ... trust me i know, it wont do any of it yet.

what?, you were able to create, edit, voices and styles since the MS50.

As for style creation and edit, I was told yes, but I will find out next week, once I have one, also I am one of those omb italian players from CT.
I've always said Ketron does the best latin/mediterrain type styles

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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Now I wasn't sure but I checked my X1 manual it was called style record, which then was saved as a pattern. In pattern edit mode you can also further edit.

Diki,

I've heard the Audya and it sounds much better than my g70. It lacks nothing of importance for most players and excels at the things that are important. Should I start listing what the g70 doesn't have? I do think it is about $1000 too costly. I am again amazed at your ability to discern things you have not experienced. I wish I had that ability.

Tom

MC, yes you can EDIT PATTERN on any older Ketron but on AUDYA you can only mix and move
stuff in between styles but you are not able to create your own styles from scratch.Also same for
the sounds, you can use only whats inside and provided by Ketron, nothing else. You cant really
manipulate the internal sounds (which is the case for every Ketron), its not like Korg or Yammie
with Micro Editing where you basically do anything to the sound, on any Ketron machines you
can do only very little to the sound. I know this for a fact cuz thats what i do for living and also work
and have worked on 10s of machines, i dont know if there is any of the new machine that i havent
worked on, right now i work on over 10 machines. Audya is not able to do many of these things as
of now, we have to wait till further updates, ctreating styles from scratch on Audya i think is coming
with OS 2.0 but i dont know if it will have an Event Editor as on any other arranger. The synth is
very good and for now you can use only whats inside or you can create styles on SD machines
then load them directly to AUDYA, it can do that, i tested it already.

thanks, I can't see them not providing this feature as they did on every other board. I sure it will be included in the future via updates. Lee,(leezone) did meantion that the FCmusica in Portugal has created ethnic user styles which they will sell. so maybe that feature was included in 2.0 which has not been offically released.

thanks

It's called 'reading' 'listening' and 'thinking', Tom. I do a lot of it

I've read the manual, I've read everything at the website, I've read every post here at SZ since I joined, I've read every post for AND against the Audya (and written from BOTH sides of that fence!). I've also listened to every demo I could find, for Audya and SD-1 (like I do for everything else) I listen to what people say, and listen especially to what they say once the hype and newness wears off.

I don't know about you, but if the ONLY things we are supposed to talk about are things we have personally done, tried and experienced, what a waste of all this forum's time and effort that would be... What's the POINT of posting a review, or an impression, or an opinion..? Apparently, it should have NO bearing on what I think... In fact, I shouldn't think a damn thing until I've tried it, touched it, played it?

Take a look at that premise, and decide for yourself if you've ever gathered information from anything OTHER than 'monkey see, monkey do'. Kind of makes even BEING here kind of pointless, doesn't it?

Ketron's lack of ease for creating new styles or editing existing ones (I'm not saying it cannot be done, just that it is from listening to those who have tried) is known. But hey, I shouldn't listen to THEM, should I? What do they know?!

BTW, when the PA2Xpro (even if you want to dismiss the five year old G70, as hard as you make us try to not discount the five year old SD-1) manages to provide a good 76 at a fraction of the price of the Audya (or the E60, at a fraction of THAT), looking to that as an excuse for the price is not exactly logical.

Oh, and Tom... should I list all the things the G70 has that the Audya has not? Let's just START with comprehensive, bonehead stupidly easy to use style editing, creating, assembling, morphing and tweaking. No external software needed, BTW. I can turn a ROM style into something unique and VERY different sounding in two minutes flat... Do THAT on an Audya!

Let us continue with the easiest to use, most comprehensive on board sequencer in an arranger. Once again, no outboard computer required. Everything from simple header and drumkit tweaking tools to out and out conditional event editing... And once again, IMO, the easiest to use. It's all well and good to say that, sooner or later, these things are going to get added. Unless Ketron have a RADICALLY different paradigm to before, there are PLENTY of user posts bemoaning the lack of easy editing (comparatively) on previous Ketron's. Do I REALLY have to try one to accept actual user's words?

Apparently, I do...

Look, I didn't need to touch one to realize from the very first post about the Audya that Ketron had bitten off more than anyone else in the computer industry had managed to chew. Time has proven my doubts about their claims unfortunately true. You know, come to think about it, waiting until you play something to have an opinion is VERY overrated!

Now, don't get me wrong... ignore them all you want, but you MIGHT acknowledge that I have been very impressed with Ketron's demos, posted about it (apparently, though, I should remain unimpressed until I play one, or does that only apply to 'negative' impressions? ) positively, and all that. But my reservations about the Audya are based on specific OS shortcomings, that I use regularly on my G70, like the aforementioned lack of easy editing, and I've never said a bad thing about the basic sound, other than my dismay at how poorly the guitar loop feature's demos turned out after all the hype and misinformation.

But what do I know...? I only read, listen, and think. Obviously, overrated skills for anyone, eh, Tom?

Diki has a good point (or should I say points) Tom. This new Audya was banked on these new audio styles. Can't really beat Ketron up for the marketing hype (because all the makers do it). However, it appears that the audio "just may not" live up to all that hype.

This thing is selling for $1000 more than a Tyros 3.., yet as Diki pointed out.., this Ketron is also missing some things that YOU SHOULD FIND on a so called pro arranger that costs five grand! I like Ketrons sound.., and I like their styles, but for the price compared to what all you get (and compare those features to the competition).., GEEZ give me a Tyros 3, G-70 or PA model!

My gast was never so flabbered when I heard the guitar loop demos as well.

Pretty bad.

If I was buying something this pricey, that sure would be a deal breaker for me.

Ian

My dealer price € 4.399,00 (Dutch)=5.777,69 Dollar.
When i buy in US it cost me $3806 !?(after exchange)

Impuls

[This message has been edited by Impuls (edited 04-24-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Impuls (edited 04-24-2009).]

Ketron is missing somethings that should have been included and I'm sure that with updates it will included. But until you actually try a product and hear it for your self, how can you honestly give a opinion thats its bad or good.

What may not work for one, may work great for others!

I never said the product wasn't good. However, for the price this beast sells for there's NO excuse for this new "break through" top end arranger to be lacking features other top end arrangers offer and offer for $1000 less or more!

Ketron DOES make some great keyboards. I've always felt they did. However, if ANY company places a $5000 price tag on their TOTL FLAGSHIP arranger.., that thing better deliver above and beyond the competition.

I've never said it won't work for others... Every arranger on the market out there works for SOMEBODY.

It just doesn't work for me. Or, I imagine, anyone that relies upon tweaking tools to extensively edit just about everything they do. My approach is simply to pick what 'sounds' best in the basic areas (drums, piano, organ, meat and potato stuff) and then, if it isn't GREAT OOTB, tweak it until it is. Hence, the ease and speed of the tweaking tools are one of my primary considerations.

Others, many others from what I gathered from my 'What percentage of ROM styles do you use?' thread, don't bother with this step, use what an arranger provides basically as is as long as it suits their style, and would be quite content with Ketron's lack of ease in this area. And good for them... it takes all kinds.

And sorry, mc, but I don't need to play something to know, from reading the manual and listening to others' posts, when certain OS issues are going to be a dealbreaker. I buy an arranger for what it does NOW, not what MIGHT be added at some indeterminate time in the future, at an inderterminate level of ease and simplicity. Perhaps, after Ketron address all these issues, come out with some onboard software (I hate using a PC to do this stuff, especially as I run a Mac and these editing softwares rarely come in a Mac compatible form) that is as easy to use as Roland's Makeup and Cover Tools, and their Style Composer, the Audya, at it's hugely inflated price, MIGHT be more attractive.

But a good OOTB sound alone isn't my primary need... I don't do Latin, Portuguese, African or any of the other styles that Ketron excel at. So it's ROM styles are going to be a small percentage of what I would need. Hence, it's editing tools are my main priority. For $1500 MORE than I payed for my brand new G70, I expect $1500 MORE stuff and features, not $1500 MORE, and $1500 LESS as well...

Trust me guys... anyone that says that Ketron have good editing tools simply has not TRIED these on a Roland.

I talked to AJ and there is an update coming shortly that gives the Audya all the necessary editing and creation tools for styles.



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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Diki,

"My approach is simply to pick what 'sounds' best in the basic areas (drums, piano, organ, meat and potato stuff) and then, if it isn't GREAT OOTB, tweak it until it is. Hence, the ease and speed of the tweaking tools are one of my primary considerations."


I want to trust you. So let's say I take a G70 out of the box and it's brand new. I call up a 16beat style and don't like the way it sounds. Please explain the steps to change simple things such as type of voice used ( drums included) and change effects such as panning, chorus , delay etc...for every variation - intro's endings included. Once the changes are made where is the style saved and how easy is it to call up the style, once it has been changed.

I'll be back sometime tomorrow to read the steps.

Thanks.

Diki,

When did you listen to an Audya? The proof is in the sound and you've NEVER heard it, Never. Are you really dumb enough to think a demo listened to on computer speakers in a compressed MP3 format is even close to hearing the real thing?

Do you really think all there is to an arranger is guitar loops in a style? I play mostly big band and jazz, and strumming guitar loops in the style are of little importance. Leeboy and I both heard the guitar audio loops in the mix of a style and they sure do sound good. But we don't know anything especially after 40 years of professional playing. You know because you read the manual and heard some poor quality MP3s.

How about live drums, great bass. How about stunning saxophones and trumpets, organs that have slow/fast rotors without having to set up special effects? Let's hear you play Mustang Sally with a real break in it. Oh I forgot the g70 doesn't have a break. A list price north of 3000 dollars and they can't even include a break button. To top everything off the default method of storage on the g70 is a floppy disk. Roland must have had a warehouse full of floppy disk drives that they needed to get rid of. Again a list of over 3000 and you need to pay extra for an outdated pcmcia adapter.

You want to create and use sequences? Why don't you just buy a karaoke machine, same difference.

Yes you need to tweek the sounds on the g70, especially the drums. Why, because they don't sound real. The saxes and brass sound plastic as well. Roland gives you tons of voices and very few are high quality. Go ahead and spend your time tweeking, I'd rather play.

You are correct that the Audya seems to be priced about 1000 to 1500 too high.

I think you like to post just so you can read your own writing regardless of its quality. I'll bet you like to hear yourself talk too. We all know people like you.

Tom

lets not go here gentlemen......its just opinions. It does not have to get personal just because the opinions expressed dont agree with our own. Come on, its time we showed we are bigger than this.

So I'm correct in saying the Audya is @$1500 too expensive, but I'm not correct in saying that the style editing tools are limited and complex?

Look , for the sake of following your argument, first tell me if you have EVER extensively tried out the style editing tools on a modern Roland... Because, apparently from your logic, you shouldn't make comparisons if you've never used them...

OK, first things first.... Dan. Every style you call up, you hit a button called 'Makeup Tools'. Every single style sound (irrespective of Part - sometimes there are multiple sounds, either in the same variation or in others) comes up in an individual widow there, easily scrolled through. In which, the Tone selection, Vol, Pan, Chorus, EQ, Reverb, Mute (so you can mute one sound within a Part, and have others sound), and most importantly, velocity offset (either plus or minus). Tweak here easily and fast. OK, now go to the drum Part (only one, sadly ). Firstly, you have all those global changes. Then in the same window, you can open up the Kit, and every drum sound has the same changes... Sound, Volume Pan,Reverb Chorus, EQ, and the all-important velocity offset (if you have multiple velocity sound drums, this is critical). Fix what you need, leave what you don't. Style sounds great now. OK... Now either save it as a new style, or overwrite the original. When saved as the original. all edits will now come up regardless of registration (UPG in Rolandspeak). Done. Fast. Easy. Graphically self-explanatory (never had to read the manual).

Oh, and all the mixer aspects of each and every sound (independent of the UPG's Part Vol. and Mute offsets) is available in a conventional Mixer window, to be quickly adjusted with the sliders that are there right under the display and lined up with no visual offset (hate that on Yamaha's, etc.).

It is faster to do than write about...

Plus there's a great tool called Cover Tools, that will revoice, to at least ten or more different selections of sounds, an entire style, or a bass section or just the drums. One button, your rock style uses acoustic sounds, or electronic sounds, or ethnic sounds, or acappela voice sounds, etc.. They are well tweaked, on the whole, and generate easy jumping off points for your own tweaking. One button, remember...

Once again faster to do than write about.

Once again I ask... have you actually TRIED to use these things? Because, apparently, I'm not the only one talking about a subject without actual experience. If you want to know more about it, I suggest a download of the manual, and the same process I use. Read. Listen. Think..

And Tom... Tom, Tom, Tom...

Firstly, my computer is linked through a MOTU 2408mk2 24bit interface to a pair of Mackie HR824's. Good enough for you? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/tongue.gif[/img] Secondly, about a billion downloads of commercial music have been sold on the iTunes Store of MP3's of commercial music at a quality at LEAST high enough to satisfy the customers (those same people whose opinion of your act you trust so much). That same, or better, MP3 quality is there for every manufacturer download and demo. Please don't confuse compressor 'compression' with data compression (of which even your arranger's ROM is compressed). No offense, but I'll put a 256kbps file up against the original and challenge you to tell the difference (if encoded with a quality encoder) any day. And, anyway, forget all that bull...

If the difference between the real thing and a good quality MP3 is going to decide an arranger purchase for you, you are out of your skull... (I apologize for getting maybe a little bit as personal as you [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/tongue.gif[/img]). An MP3 of a T3 sounds pretty much like a T3. All my recordings of my G70 are available in MP3 form (as are most demos, including the Audya's). And I can't hear enough difference between it and the real thing to care a bit, or say it doesn't represent the true nature of the thing...

Hell, I even SAID I liked the sound of the demos... Presumably, I'm wrong, and shouldn't make ANY conclusions about the sound even if it sounds GOOD? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/rolleyes.gif[/img] Really? Well, OK, I guess I have to start saying everything I've heard on the Audya sucks (because it is an MP3...) [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif[/img] [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

And Tom... To claim such utter G70 absurdities! Either you are FAR more ignorant of the facts than I am, or I'm missing some subtle humor, here... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

The G70's default storage is a 50MB SSHD. No moving parts. Bombproof, Then there is a card slot, Once again, bombproof, instantaneous, on the fly loading. So what if it is a bit older than SD. It is functionall identical. The floppy is a legacy interface for courtesy. It also has a USB port, for direct computer communication and backup. No, it ain't USB2. It don't need it. A backup of an entire full HD don't take more than a couple of minutes. I can spare that (don't need it at the gig, because up to 4GB can be accessed by card). There are no sampler loads, no MP3 players (I know you hate karaoke as much as I do!) to bog it down with massive data transfer needs. But If it did have those, I'd rather them on a card than an HD. Seek times are too long for instantaneous load up of styles, songs and registrations.

OK, what's next.. yes, I remember... the break button (or lack thereof), and complete lack of a Break. Rubbish. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif[/img] It not only has a Break, it has two assignable panel switches it can be assigned to, footswitch and FC-7 control, too. Nice try. Don Pardo, tell him what he WOULD have won....

Sorry, Tom, but maybe you ought to take your own advice and TRY something before you comment on it. That is, if you can't be bothered to download the manual and simply find out those facts for yourself, or read a few posts about the issues. Like I can.

My flabber really is getting WAY past ghasted.... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Oh, and Tom... I know people like you, too. Can't be bothered to find out the facts before they come out guns blazing. 40 years playing, and you haven't learned that yet? Tsk....

From Diki's Post "OK, first things first.... Dan. Every style you call up, you hit a button called 'Makeup Tools'. Every single style sound (irrespective of Part - sometimes there are multiple sounds, either in the same variation or in others) comes up in an individual widow there, easily scrolled through. In which, the Tone selection, Vol, Pan, Chorus, EQ, Reverb, Mute (so you can mute one sound within a Part, and have others sound), and most importantly, velocity offset (either plus or minus). Tweak here easily and fast. OK, now go to the drum Part (only one, sadly ). Firstly, you have all those global changes. Then in the same window, you can open up the Kit, and every drum sound has the same changes... Sound, Volume Pan,Reverb Chorus, EQ, and the all-important velocity offset (if you have multiple velocity sound drums, this is critical). Fix what you need, leave what you don't. Style sounds great now. OK... Now either save it as a new style, or overwrite the original. When saved as the original. all edits will now come up regardless of registration (UPG in Rolandspeak). Done. Fast. Easy. Graphically self-explanatory (never had to read the manual). "


Diki..basically the same thing with Ketron products. The G70 & Ketron is made in Italy, you don't think these guys look at what each other does ?

Different terminology, but same type of editing tools.

Your making way to big of a deal on ease of use for Roland products. Personally, I can't stand Rolands editing tools. However, navigation is practically the same with most arrangers.

You nit pick perceived navigation issues because you read certain things about Ketron..

It really comes down to the sound and that's an area that is personal choice.

As Don Mason said a long time ago, "it's the sound stupid" . If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 04-25-2009).]

Tom, i wouldnt agree with you, with all respect to you bro i dont think you know what
Style and Sound Editing really means, just by
reading your post.

On the Break issue, the Rolands do have an assignable Break, but they DO NOT have an effective Break/fill, like every other arranger has. The Roland break just stops everything. On other arrangers, the Break/fill is actually another style part and is different to fit different styles. With the Roland, instead of dealing with assigning it, I find it easier to just hit Stop and then the Sync start engages the style again when I want it--same thing. Still, it's a poor workaround. Many of the songs I do need Break/fills and to me this is the number one drawback of the Roland.
Regarding the on-the-go style editing, Ketrons are just as easy to use as Rolands, to me. It's extremely easy to switch sounds, volumes and drum kits. It has no overall one-button transformation like the Roland and I do find that very useful.
I also hate that there is no overall setting that allows you to change the default fingering mode of the factory styles without saving to registration (and then also changing and saving each OTS).
I've been using the Roland E50 for much longer than I intended. It does the job just fine as far as my listeners and employers are concerned, and for very little money. The trade-offs are no vocal processing or harmonizer, no aux ins, 61 notes, piano sounds not especially to my liking, no text display, no MP3 player for breaks, not e.q. to speak of. I take a laptop and mixer for some of these functions and Harmony M for vocals.
It will be nice to get it all in one package again when the Audya finally arrives.
Oh, did I mention I don't care whether anyone else likes the Audya, or can't justify it. I hope I buy the only one within 500 miles of me! I have heard it and played it and even in its unfinished state it sounded absolutely fantastic.
When playing Yamahas, I have actually had other players come in and say something like, "oh that is the Blues Rock style isn't it?"
Also must mention that I expect to have to make compromises with it too. For example I actually prefer joystick to wheels, and I don't like the location of the wheels on Audya. The fill buttons aren't optimally located either, but the foot switches can address that.
Finding styles to suit me has never been a problem with Ketron. Everything I have needed on past models has been on board or readily available. I expect it to be the same with Audya.
Sorry for the rambling. And I forgot to insult anybody too. I can fix that though--Captain Russ, you are a total idiot. Well not total, nobody's perfect.
DonM

DonM said:
"Sorry for the rambling. And I forgot to insult anybody too. I can fix that though--Captain Russ, you are a total idiot. Well not total, nobody's perfect."

Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are.
Wally

Wally ... give it a break will ya ? Get it ? break ?

Dan, you are right about the break/Fill. But that's NOT what you said in your post.

Secondly, the workaround for no Break fill is hit the Break button, wait a beat or so, then hit the Fill button. (when it's on an FC-7 - not an E50 option, although you can do it with MIDI pedals - it's a snap to do). Break/Fill, get it? Plus, that has the advantage of being different for each variation, whereas I think only the Audya has four B/F's, everything else has but the one. Mind you, the Audya has but four fills, to the Roland's six, so one step forward, one step back (but kudos to Ketron for being the first to realize you MIGHT want a different B/F in the chorus from the verse!)...

BTW, all those things you mentioned as being missed on your E50 are available on a G70 (except the MP3 playback), there are still a few new ones floating around here, but a good condition s/h one can be got for roughly $2k+. That would leave you $3000 change from a Ketron.

Oh, and in case you missed it over at R-A.com, there is software over there (the Session Manager) which can batch convert (or just one UPG at a time) ALL your ROM and User styles, and UPG's to any way you want them. Want ALL styles with Pianostyle, or Standard chord recognition? Want the split point default other than C3? Want the keyboard touch default different?

Piece of cake...

If the E50 is floating your audience's boat, imagine how much more floating they would be once you have a great harmonizer, per Part and per drum sound 3 band parametric EQ, stereo aux ins (with an entire MFX multi-effects dedicated to it), 76 of the finest keys made, IMO the best piano sound of ANY arranger... In fact, the very things you miss on the E50. But still $3000 LESS than the Audya.

That's the thing that gets me.

Oh, and of course, you can, with familiarity probably get around on the style editing stuff as well as a Roland... few others here have. I'm only repeating what actual OWNERS have said. I don't NEED to make this stuff up. But the thing that gets me is that the audio drums and guitars are pretty much completely uneditable. You can't change the sound on the snare, can't tune the toms if they clash with the key of the song, you can't EQ the kick. What you hear is what you'll get. Forever. Need the same style, but a different kick pattern, or a different snare placement, forget it.

The very thing that makes the Audya sound awesome (remember, I'm as in love with the SOUND as you are ) is the very thing that prevents you from changing anything.

Look, don't get me wrong... I would LOVE an Audya But only IF.... It was no more than a PA2Xpro, and the audio features worked as hyped, and there was SOME way to edit audio styles. Heck, if it had everything that makes the Roland's so good (and good enough for you and your audience despite using the cheapest Roland E you could buy!) and THEN added the rest, it MIGHT even be worth $5000 MAP.

But at the moment, it's two steps forward, two steps back (one for the price).

But I can't wait to hear it in your hands... you're a great player, and no doubt your audience will love it too. But will they love it $3750 more than the E50?

I played the G70 for three months. It's great as long as you don't have to move it. I'm old and have a bad back and bad wrist, so 50 Plus pounds is not an option.
I once bought a Yamaha organ that listed for $16,000. These things are cheap nowadays.
DonM

Audya 38 lbs. G70, 46 lbs. I doubt that 8 lbs. is a dealbreaker. Especially with the Audya almost 20 lbs. heavier than the E50.

Don't forget, it is crazy to put a $5000 arranger in a soft bag. You are going to need to protect that degree of investment with something solid, and unfortunately, heavy (or at least, heavier than a soft bag). More weight.

BTW, when you bought that $16,000 organ, was there anything comparable at half the price?

"Dan, you are right about the break/Fill. But that's NOT what you said in your post."

Diki.. I made a comment as to joke about the break fill comments.. Obviously, you didn't get it .

Here's what my last post kind of says,

Arrangers are all about navigation. I just don't see tremendous difference's in regards to pressing buttons, looking in the screen, then you press another button and somehow save it.

But personal taste in sound is the thing you can't change, your personal opinions will never change that.


[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 04-26-2009).]

Audya arrived and dissapeared, all of them sold, there wont be any for 2 months at least.

I got one coming, I was told landing tomorrow so I should see it Wednesday

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

maybe then the Software will be available along with OS 2.0, or is that wishful thinking?

Ah.. ain't life GRAND!! People from all walks of life and from all different parts of the globe speaking their own thoughts and giving their own advice and/or opinions about something they like or dislike! Wouldn't it be the pits if everybody thought alike and had the same exact reaction or response on any given product or idea put forth? In other words, the same vanilla wrapper with the same vanilla taste from the same vanilla people all the time every time? They say variety is the spice of life and I reckon that can also apply to all the varied and numerous responses and input we get on this forum too right?. Let the debate go on!

All I can say is if you like it i.e. the "Audya" then by all means - GO FOR IT DUDE!! If you don't like it (the price or whatever) then by all means - SHUN IT LIKE THE PLAGUE!! But let's not dis one another because of our "differences" of opinion okay? The more we know about the Audya i.e. - its shortcomings, and its strengths - the better off we are on the whole. The "less" we know about something (whether good OR bad) the less informed we are as the "consumers" of these beasts that they (the manufacturers) are trying to sell us, or perhaps it could also be said = rammed down our throats! That's why it is in my opinion we should continue to let the dialogue flow, even if it ruffles a few (or a whole lot) of feathers in the process. I would rather know the "facts" (shortcomings AND the advantages) of a product, versus, being left in the dark and groping around for the light switch. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img] Don't stifle the dialogue... PLEASE!! Just take a little care to be at least somewhat 'civil' in the process.. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img] >> R-E-S-P-E-C-T.. Find out what it means to me. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img] Go Aretha! [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/cool.gif[/img]

All the best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 04-27-2009).]

How many items, 2 or 3?

Lee, you might be right. Johnny, i dont know about it.

Nedim,

right about the software and OS 2.0 being available?

or right about wishful thinking? ;-)

Thanks for the compliment, Don. I'll just have to try HARDER!(LOL).


R.

I just spoke with Leon at Ketron. He said the Audyas are being unloaded right now. They may be all sold, but they can't be all gone, at least until they are off the ship.
DonM

maybe the reason we here in the US get the AUDYA last is because they were busy upgrading the HD to 1TB, and the RAM to 1GB ;-0

Good luck Don use it well.