This matter bugs me ever since I got full access to the Internet.Roland(unlike Korg)doesn't seem to care much for the developement of patches and banks for their line of synths,leaving the programming and tweaking to the user.I am not a sound designer,I am a composer.So what am I supposed to do if I need a lot of "etherical" pads and "fantasy" effects for my new age ambiental music?Turn to Korg who excels in this area?I would not as I am a constant Roland user,since the times of my first D20 and going through XP50,XP60 and my current XP30.From all the browsing on the web all I got was 32 patches for XP30,and that was on a scandinavian(as I remember)Roland site.You will say it is not their interest to develop patches since they need to promote the expansion boards.This may be so ,but I think it should be their duty to offer more to the customer who invested in their products and chose Roland over some other brand.And this wouldn't be so hard anyway,putting a few sound designers to a couple of hours of work extra a day.I feel that whith the exceptional sound quality of the samples much more could be done that the presets even on the expansion boards.Shouldn't Roland do this?

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[b]D'auk o-la[b]

I don't really feel this is Roland's duty. And even now I've got tons of patches I'll probably never use. Only dissappointing thing is that because the international community of xp30 users is too small (and Roland could fill this gap by sound developement) no user patches are created that use expansion waveforms of the session/techno/orchestral boards.

Maybe they ought to...... but the simple fact is (from what you said) they don't! If Korg does and you want that sort of thing..... you may have to go with a Korg sytnh (it's not like Korg's aren't good synths!!) If one company excels in a certain area, it's kind of ridiculous to complain about another company not excelling in that area........ one company cannot possibly excel in every area, I'm willing to bet that there are some things that Roland does better than Korg. Seeing as I'm a Roland user myself, I could probably name a few too. It's up to the consumer to decide what features they need more (I chose the XV-88 over something like a Triton because I needed a better feeling keyboard and better acoustic samples) So just look at the whole picture.


And YES, you can get more patches for whatever kind of music you want to do with the huge SR-JV libary of expansion boards, sure you have to pay for 'em.... but it is work after all to make patches and new samples. There's my $.02, hope it made some sense!

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Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hi Zeratul,

I agree with Bungle that I don't feel it is Roland's duty. In regards to the XP-30, I'm not sure how many sounds come with it. I own an XV-5080 which comes with many banks of presets already out of the box (User bank + Banks A thru H). This is without any expansion boards.

I, too, have a ton of patches. I always have tight deadlines so I haven't even listened to all of them (I also own a few other keyboards and modules).

Anyway, if the stock XP-30's sounds don't do it for you, why on earth did you buy it? I'm assuming that you have other uses for it. If you don't have the inclination to program these types of sounds yourself and can't find any to buy, then maybe you should buy a Korg keyboard. You could maybe pick up an 01/W which will do many of the types of sounds that you're looking for. There are 3rd party sound developers out there as well that you can try which may offer sets like this. Don't want to buy any but want them for free? Well, Korg won't help you out much either when you're looking for new sounds not present on your keyboard. I own a Trinity Plus and any of the extra patch banks for it from Korg must be bought. They are not freely downloadable.

Anyway, I don't mean any offense by my post but there are options for you in the form of 3rd party sound developers (check out the Roland section of this site at the bottom of the page I believe) or you could get a used 01/W by Korg.

HTH,
fv

\\This matter bugs me ever since I got full access to the Internet.Roland(unlike Korg)doesn't seem to care much for the developement of patches and banks for their line of synths,leaving the programming and tweaking to the user.I am not a sound designer,I am a composer.So what am I supposed to do if I need a lot of "etherical" pads and "fantasy" effects for my new age ambiental music?\\


Ouch. You bought the wrong synth. Better not to stick with one brand of synth, no matter what. Next time shop around before you buy.
Roland makes stuff with good pianos , pipe organs and flutes, but not much else.

The Clavia synths and Korgs are excellent for ethereal and fantasy sounds. The drums sounds on these synths are also an incredible strong point.


I was a hard core roland user too. I would only look at rolands. Then I decided to try something else, and my eyes have opened.

Also, Korg isnt exactly helpful in releasing new patches and combinations. Fortunately, there are some great people making these for the users. The xp-30 is a nice synth, to be sure. Just don't expect it to do new-age, ambient, or electronica very well.


The Triton patches are all user re-rightable, every one.

First of all I am sorry if somebody was offended by the "crudeness" and "rudeness" of some parts of my post (words like "Roland's duty","they must"etc.),this came by my not so good undersanding of english language nuances,and lack of vocabulary-english isn't by far my native tongue.All I was saying is that with the GREAT quality the samples have on every Roland sound board a lot more COULD BE DONE,and by who better if not Roland them selves.You were talking about comercial patches,yes those are great(actually I got a patch from the Fairlab site that amazed me)but they are written all of them(Kidnepro etc.) for the JV internal sounds,none of them takes full advantage of the whole setup(session,orchestral,techno) that is found on the XP30.

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[b]D'auk o-la[b]

Arvon 45

What do you mean the XP30 is no good for ambient/new age. Its perfect for it. Ive had a JV2080 and now a XV5080 and I have a Korg.
I admit the Korg comes with more of these sounds out of the box, but the Rolands go places Korg will never go. It is down to programming, and true, any patches i've got from the net arent exactly what i've needed.

Programming is the key and yes time consuming, but if you want any sound, i swear the JV/XV series are capable of coming up with something close or better than you can imagine. Of course there are better tools for certain applications, but come on, the JVS etc are probably the most versatile synths anywhere.

Zeratul, isn't that a character from Starcraft? Anyway, you're absolutely right about Fairlab. Great programming as far as the demo's are concerned. It's a shame that they are so very expensive. That's why I want to learn some serious programming myself. The question is: "does anybody know of any books on how to program on JV/XP synths?". I know some basics but I want to carry it further. learn about FM synthesis and stuff, not just changing waveforms and adding some effects and filters.

Bungle "Zeratul, isn't that a character from Starcraft?"
RIIIGHT! I used to play it a lot(I still do);it is a great game.
About the book on programing JV XP I found something here http://www.synthony.com/Products/instructional/instruments.html

"With this book, you will hear and read about the different models, which expansion boards you can do with, learn how to handle and program your synth like professionals do. Including CD-ROM with audio demos and shareware." At least that's what they say.

see u

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[b]D'auk o-la[b]

The XP/JV/XV-series are MADE to be programmed. Creating the sounds you need is part of creating music on these machines. It is almost like asking why it is so hard to create good music on the XP.

When it comes to programming on the XP, it really is not that difficult. But of course, doing complex things on complex systems can never be made easy.

If you want simple, buy an accordion. Instant access to all the 4 sounds. They even sound the same anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Just my opinion....

Stig

Right on Stigf, these synths are THE programmable synths. If people arent happy with their patches, then program the thing. If you havent got time or cant, use the presets or go buy some Yamaha crap or something.
Geez - how many of you guys are out there, i reckon i could start a business up programming kick ass sounds on these machines. What do ya reckon everyone!

Totty2 If you do that let me know,I will need it.

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[b]D'auk o-la[b]

It would be nice if Roland and other vendors would include a decent editor/librarian for their boards. There are a number of shareware editors out there, all they would need is to find the best one out there and purchase it from the person that wrote it or provide a Light Version of SoundDiver that works just for their boards.

I have been trying to find a good one for JV series boards but they all seem to have little quirks with them. Either they dont want to see my JV80 through my 8x8 Midi interface or they dont support the JV80.

If I had a job I would just go out and dish out the money for SoundDiver but as it is I cant afford that right now.

If you have everything on your PC screen editing would be a joy, right not its a pain to go through pages and pages of menu screens.

Eddy,

Sounddiver is great to use. Don't forget that it supports many, many different devices. The XV series is not supported yet but someone is currently working on the module for the XV-5080 (don't know which other XV models it will support).

There is a light OEM version of Sounddiver for the JV-1010 which ships with the module. I believe that this is mostly because you can't edit the JV-1010 from the front panel but I'm not sure. I don't know if it works with other JV series or not.

It is well worth the price if you have more than one unit to edit. If you only have one unit, then it depends on your situation if it is worth it to you, how difficult (or tedious) it is to program from the front panel, and how much editing you actually do.

In the meantime you may be able to find a shareware one out there somewhere. I thought that there was something for JV-series on the net somewhere. Maybe I'm mistaken.

HTH

Yeah there are a bunch of shareware ones out there but I haven't had much luck with them working for me and my setup.

The sound diver that came with my xp 30 is a good editor and it will work with any JV XP synth.If anyone wants it I will give it to them.

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[b]D'auk o-la[b]

Editting patches is the way I prefer. Let me inform all present that I am a completely blind individual with an XP-80. I can even edit my own patches. I've created very many patches, from improved pianos, to strings that sound much better for glissando, to accorddions, to horns, to cup mutes for brass, to choirs, etc. I also have a few expansion boards, and I find myself tweaking a few patches for my own taste even on those. I will say they are short on pads, which is fine with me.

My point? If a blind guy can manipulate the synth, anybody can.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 04-01-2001).]

FAEbGBD:

You impressed me there!

I agree with you; the XPs are good synths for editing sounds. I know many disagree with me here, but I find the XP-60/80 manual good enough to get started with sound editing. And the display/interface is actually quite clear-cut when you have used it a little. The manual gives you what you need to get started, the rest is trying.

As I said before, the XP sound editing IS complex. That is the whole idea of a synth. Personally I find the XP quite easy to work with.

Stig

The XP30 community is small? That's a rather odd statement, since the XP30 community includes all the users of the XP50/60/80 and JV1080/2080/1010 as well since the sound architecture is essentially the same and the patches interchangeable (2080 has more EFX, but still . . . ).

Well, the webpresence of xp-30 owners and the online documentation of the xp-30 is still very low. XP-30 owners haven't really been able to encounter one another and build a proper network yet. remember: the network is more than the sum of all it's members.
I also feel that xp-30 have a somewhat different standard compared to other super-jv owners since we've got those 3 boards loaded with waveforms included. We could do lots more with this.

XP30 owners--and a pretty large number of them at that--have from the very outset been well represented on the original JV/XP mailing list (see lilchips.com for details). In fact, I *left* that list because after a while the owners of the older series had largely figured out their instruments, and the newer postings were so often from new XP30 owners. That the XP30 has certain expansion boards built-in shouldn't affect interchange between owners of the various instruments any more than it affects owners with the same (or different) boards installed on the earlier series.

It sounds as if you're focusing largely on not being able to find patches--but in that sense, even earlier series owners don't exchange all *that* many patches. There are already so many available. For example, have you already downloaded and auditioned the four or five banks or preset patches from the older JV1000? That's a lot of patches in itself.

What happened on that list was basically that people struggled for a couple of years to get to know the instruments, exchanged some patches, posted some patch banks, learned how to program and tweak patches, and went about making music. When I left the group, most of the questions involved interfacing the XP30 (or earlier instruments) with various computer setups.

There are *so* many patches available for these instruments, and *so* many options for tweaking them, I think people generally find what they want, program presets or patches they find on the net, or just tweak presets (as I generally do; I'm not really a programmer) for their music. Most of that kind of thing (individual patches tweaked for a certain song) never gets posted or uploaded anywhere. The thinking is probably: Why bring sand to the beach?

I have never expected an infinite number of patches to be availabe for *any* instrument; there is already so much exchange and so many patches available.

Bungle: I just checked your earlier post: So you *do* already have tons of patches. Great. As for the XP30 community not really having much of a presence "yet": Many are on the JV/XP list, and--quite frankly--let's face it, the XP30 has been out a long time now and is already no longer really part of Roland's flagship synths. BTW: I don't know of any Roland-specific book on programming either, though I think some people from the JV/XP list posted some tutorials at someone's site once upon a time (maybe Ben Tubb's site). Anyway: good luck.

what are you to lazy to "tweak" your own sounds. i think it is more creative to make youre own souns i have a xp80 and i only use
my special for my needs tweakt sounds.
by the way
i also have a korg ms2000 and i can tell you that the douwnloadeble preset sounds stink
STARKA

Hi

I don't understand why everybody seems to be so upset about Zeratuls opinion- meaning that Roland should offer their customers a bigger choice of pre-programmed Patches to the JV/XP synths.
Is there something wrong with that?

Some people may not be interested in or able to program it; others perhaps don't want to throw away their lifes doing it, and just want to play and make some music. So I think I can respect his opinion!

On the other hand I know that it's lots of fun programming new sounds exactly the way you want them to be.
I myself have programmed (and reprogrammed) quite a lot, for instance the bad original bass sounds with no power at the lower register, and the results were real good.
There's no doubt that the JV/XPs really have got lots of potential for programming.

So I have to agree that there should be a possibility of getting or buying some new Patches from Roland -specially for those who don't want to do the programming themselves, but still want newer and better sounds to a product they have payed for (without having to buy the expansion cards). Why not?

By the way...It's strange that I have never seen any comments (or complaints) about the 96 preset Performances of the JV/XP synths!

Has anybody noticed how completely useless and unusable these Performances are for live playing?!
Let me tell you this: I can spend hours playing on a Korg Triton using just one of its amazing sounding Combis (Combi= Performance in Roland). And there are hundreds of them!
On the other hand I have had JV/XP synths now for six years and I have NEVER used any of the preset Performances for playing!!

The JV/XPs has great Patch sounds, so for me it is hard to understand why Roland hasn't included one single good (or at least decent) playable Performance in them.

Can this be because Roland don't want people to play with Layered Performances -so we don't notice much about the bad timing on the JV/XP sound modules?!
Or has anyone any other explanation?

Dani

I agree! The performances are of little use other than sequencing. They could get rid of most of them if you ask me. 9 times out of 10 I'll play in patch mode. If you want good realtime live performances, you'll have to create them yourself.