I have an E60, not sure what the onboard pianos are like on the E50, E80, and G70, but I'm assuming they are similar to the E60: Natural, Superior, and Classic?

I find the Natural tinny, the Superior fuller but not great, and the Classic nice and full but too muted. I tweaked the Classic by going into Tone Edit and pushing the Cutoff up to the max, and setting the Attack at -2. On my kbd, this results in a great piano sound.

Interested to know how this translated to other models, your feedback, and also your tweaks (if you have tried them) on any of the Roland G/E series piano sounds


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Miami Mo

We had a shoot-out of the piano sounds over at Roland-arranger.com (or it might have been the old G70 Users Forum, I can't pin down how long ago it was) quite a while back. You are right, it was generally held that the Classic piano was the same samples as the GrandX in the G70, but the programming had muted it. Also, in the E50/60 version (possibly E80 too, I can't remember), the samples seemed shorter, or more compressed.

Your solution seems to be the one we all agreed came closest to the G70's great piano sound, although personally, I'm not sure you need to wind the cutoff all the way open. Play quietly, softly, and see if it closes down enough. There's a delicious warmth to the sound of the G70 piano at ppp-mp, that you might lose if you open it out too much. You might also try winding down the resonance parameter a bit, that might help somewhat.

I tend to use my G70 piano at Medium touch response, it seems (on the G70 keybed) to give the best range of sound, without having to pound the dear thing too much at ff-fff Depending on your touch and the E60's keybed, YMMV...

BTW, if you want a nice bright, almost Yamaha-esque piano sound without going to one of the tinny Roland pianos, try using the Part EQ, but rather than jack the treble up a bunch, just do it a little, but cut the low end substantially, then raise the whole Part Volume. Instant cut through the mix!

Hope this helps.

BTW, on the G70, you don't make ANY edits at all. It is perfection just the way it is. I have never figured out why Roland chose to ruin a good thing (but am getting used to them doing that!).

It only has the Classic Piano out of the three main ones available on the E series (what it calls the GrandX, being from the FantomX WS), but it really is all you need... Even though there are a bunch of other pianos, I hate most of them, and virtually never use them. The odd tack piano, the Upright piano for reggae (that NEEDS a nasty short bright piano!), and that's it... Thirty odd pianos, and I use only the one 99% of the time!

But when that one is SO GOOD...!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 03-14-2010).]

Diki, I too use medium (on almost all), and tried less cutoff and adjusting the reso, but still prefer the cutoff maxed..on the E60 it sounds not at all harsh that way. When I need it cut through even more (rarely)I can just put some enhancer on it rather than the stereo eq setting i usually use. There is no Part EQ option on the E60 as far as i can see. What I do a lot is set up Octave Type 1 on the Melody Intelligence button and hit that when I want to do some bright Latin stuff and montuñas. Works great.

As far as Jazz Organ, I'm finding All Skate on Upper One mixed with either Organ Bass or
Jazz 1/9 on Upper Two best for me, and I split bass it with Organ Bass on MB and 1/9 on Lower, both up an octave. I haven't yet found anything i really love beyond that, with all the organ sounds available. Have you found one you love for jazz? Also, I do have an expression pedal but since I'm not an ex-organist i don't handle it all that well. I've found that by setting my organ at High touch setting, I can get all the expression i need to from that, a lot more consistently.

I like the Vintage EP1 as my Rhodes sound, with Cho.E.Piano in the bass split up an octave. The only complaint I have is that the
Vintage EP1, when struck firmly, has a volume
"pow" kick in it that's disconcerting, and since my touch is not as smooth as glass, it will pop out there unintentionally. i have not found any way to get rid of it. I can mitigate it some using the Limiter, but that takes something from the character of the sound.

I'd like to try suggestions for jazz Organ and for Rhodes from other Roland users..

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Miami Mo

Personally, I would stick FIXED velocity on all your organs sounds (I don't have that option on the G70 except for the VK organ section, wish I did!) and learn the pedal better. The biggest giveaway of non-organ players is the sound of some notes being louder or softer in a chord, or melody lines only changing volume on each note, rather than through the note...

Takes a bit of getting used to, but the end result is worth it.

I thought that the E60/50 got the same per Part EQ that the G70 got in OS2? Take a look in the EFFECTS page top right hand corner, under the Chorus display. Is there a button that says EQ PART EDIT? That is where you would edit a Part's EQ, if the E60 has it... (what version software you running on the E60?)

Rhodes, I tend to use the Vintage EP1 a lot myself, that one though, I often put on High touch, makes that popout a bit harder to hit. Depends on the sound you are going for. No real way of getting around working on your touch, I'm afraid. I use a wide variety of EP's, more so than pianos, anyway. A bit of 54 Auto Pan MFX goes a long way to getting that Suitcase sound, too... (feed it into some chorus or flanger for that 70's sound)

I'm afraid I tend to primarily use the VK Organ section for jazz, you can't get true percussion on sampled tones, because the percussion (at least on A, B and C models that had it) only triggers at the start of a legato phrase, not for each and every note (unless you play staccato), and is another dead giveaway of the sampled organ.

But it seems like you have got things well in hand, and have a personal opinion of what you prefer in sounds, so as long as YOU are happy, I wouldn't worry about it!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 03-15-2010).]

Diki, there is no eq part edit on the effects page of the E60. the G70 is going to have a lot of features the E60 doesn't, like mic input, multi-pedal availability and several more. Roland didn't want to make a lighter 76 kb w/speakers and a nice keybed at less than 1/2 the price without leaving out a lot.
I'm happy they even made an E60, tho I would gladly have paid $3-500 more for just a few more improvements that would have cost them peanuts. Anyhoo, thanks for your "as usual" good suggestions...btw i don't know if you saw my response to your inquiry on the "what's new" post, if not check it out.

Oops! I had assumed that E50/60 got that EQ. Yep, you might have to bump that cutoff up more, in that case!

Bottom line is to monitor on as good a set of speakers as you can, and get out front of the PA speakers with your ears adjusted for audience levels (try straight after a break, when your ears have 'opened' out a hair) and listen to an SMF of the piano sound with you playing it. Sometimes, there's a tendency to make these things a bit too bright (Yamaha, anyone!) to help 'cut' through a mix, but listen objectively in context, and sometimes it's better to go for the warmth. It's amazing how well you can still hear the piano part (the stereo imaging helps enormously) even in a mix, when you aren't actually playing it and trying to hear yourself better!

Not that you need to go back to stock, but I'm STILL not sure wide open is your best bet...

You want to try it sometimes, send me an SMF of you playing a bit of piano on the E60's Classic piano, and I'll pass it untouched through my G70 (no EQ, no tweaks) and send you a decent MP3 back (or a short 16/44 .wav if the piece is short enough) of it for comparison purposes. I think getting the ppp-mp values right is what makes it so good. Bright is OK, but that warmth when you play softly is what eludes almost all other arranger pianos I've ever heard... Think SteinwayD as opposed to Yamaha CIII

Saw your post on the other thread. Sounds like fun! If you have any, and you don't mind an ear thrown on it, any live recordings would be cool to hear. If you want, just email me an MP3 or two?

Good to see you back here, in whatever capacity you choose...

Diki it's not about cutting through the mix, as the way I'm set up onstage allows me to hear what the audience is hearing. I have 2 12" Ev100's and a Behringer 5-ch powered mixer. On the floor to my right slightly behind me is one spkr with the mixer sitting on top, and across in front of the stage is the other speaker on a high stand angled partly toward me. I use no monitors. No, my decision to open cutoff all the way happened in my office, playing thru the kbd speakers. I tried turning it down on your suggestion by 10's, and there was a little more warmth,
but the fuzzier definition was not to my taste. Putting the attack at -2 is also integral to improvement imo. It's not like opening the cutoff turns the sound into something resembling Natural Piano (an abomination that requires a tin ear to appreciate-as i told someone who liked it on roland-arranger last yr and was reprimanded for saying so). The fullness of the Classic Piano remains, just jazzier. The only thing I have to send is mp4's..can you play those?
they're from our studio demo 2 years ago, and i feel my playing/singing has advanced a ton since then so I'm not hot to have them represent me to a critical listener like yourself- tho i do still use them as demos. I'm not sure the piano/rhodes settings were the same as what i use now either. With that caveat, if you still want to kill 6 minutes
of your life listening to them and you can play mp4's, I'll email them to you. I'll also
include something from my sopranino sax cd with an ace rhythm sec that i feel better represents my abilities.
btw, i'm surprised you are the only respondent to this post--i thought there were more Roland G/E users here.

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Miami Mo

I don't think many here are as picky about their piano sounds as you and I are, perhaps, Mo..!

yes, I can play mp4's, and don't forget that SMF of you playing your E60. You might be surprised to hear what the difference with the E60 and the G70 actually IS...

Don't worry about trying to impress me with your chops. You'll probably do that anyway, but we'll treat it strictly as an opportunity to compare piano patches, OK? Solo piano, no track, simple short piece, lots of dynamics. OK?

i am not yet in the 21st century Diki. never used an SMF and have no idea how to make one.
never used a modern computer for music in any way, not since i did some film background music on my old Atari 1meg computer in the 80's. forgot the little i learned with that.
i have Garage Band on my desktop, just sits there. i'm daydreaming about a knock on the door...
hi, i'm selling Girl Scout Cookies, and if you buy some I'll tutor you for a week. btw i'm 18 and busting out of this uniform, do you mind if i slip into something more comfortable? at that point the wife punches me on the shoulder, disturbs my daydream, and hands me the garbage to take out..