WK-7500


TOKYO, September 6, 2010 — Casio Computer Co., Ltd. announced today the release of the WK-7500, a top-of-the-line electronic keyboard fully equipped with exciting functions for producing music and creating sounds, all packed into a single unit. With the WK-7500, musical performances and accompaniment can be saved as song data and stored in Standard MIDI File (SMF) format or as audio files.

The WK-7500 features a Song Sequencer offering 16 tracks plus one system track. On the system track, both the keyboard performance and the auto accompaniment are simultaneously recorded. Then, up to another 16 tracks of music played on the keyboard can be recorded. A Pattern Sequencer also allows users to create original accompaniment parts. Furthermore, the WK-7500’s Audio Recording / Playback Function enable sounds from an external microphone or other instrument to be recorded for playback, then simultaneously mixed with keyboard performances and the Song Sequencer for recording. Taken together, these functions unleash the user’s full creativity to make great music.

The WK-7500 is also loaded with a full range of functions for creating sounds, including a wide choice of Multiple Digital Effects—100 types of Digital Signal Processor(DSP) effects,* 10 reverb effects, and 5 chorus effects*—and a Tone Editor that allows users to set various parameters to make original tone patches.
* DSP and chorus effects cannot be used at the same time.

The WK-7500 is equipped with 800 diverse tones and 250 rhythms built-in. Included in the tones are 50 Drawbar Organ tones that can be adjusted using nine sliders that function as drawbars corresponding to certain ranges of overtones. Users can also change the speed of the rotary speaker effect and add percussion at the press of a button—making the enjoyment of performing come more and more alive.

Along with the WK-7500, a 61-key version with the same functions—the CTK 7000—is also being released.

Model name Keys Tones Rhythms
Built-in User Built-in User
WK-7500 76 800 100 250 100
CTK-7000 61


Main Features of the WK-7500 and CTK-7000


Song Sequencer

The Song Sequencer offers 16 tracks plus one system track. The sequencer not only records keyboard performances in real time but can also be used as a step sequencer, allowing users to manually enter the length and pitch of notes. Output sounds can be changed for each tone after song data is recorded, and all standard editing functions are provided, including punch-in and punch-out for overdubbing musical passages, as well as quantizing functions. Completed recordings can be converted to Standard MIDI File (SMF) format and stored on an SD memory card.

Pattern Sequencer

Users can create patterns containing a maximum of eight tracks, and up to 100 patterns can be stored in memory. The Pattern Sequencer enables the creation of backing rhythms by selecting from the many built-in rhythms and organizing them together. Parameters such as the tone, volume level and reverb can also be adjusted.

Audio Recording / Playback Function

Accompaniment and sounds from the external inputs can be mixed and recorded, and then saved on an SD memory card for playback. In December of this year, Casio plans to provide software—downloadable from its website free of charge—to allow users to store data in .wav format on their computers.

Multiple Digital Effects

100 types of DSP effects,* 10 reverb effects, and 5 chorus effects* are built-in, and up to 100 original DSP effects can be created and stored in memory.
* DSP and chorus effects cannot be used at the same time.



Tone Editor

Up to 100 original tones can be created and stored in memory by changing any of the 800 built-in tones using parameters such as attack and release time, filter cutoff, vibrato, reverb, chorus, and DSP.

32-channel Mixer

Each channel can be independently adjusted for volume level, pan position, reverb send, and other parameters, and sounds from the external inputs can be included in the mix.

800 tones and 250 rhythms built-in

The keyboard comes with 800 tones, including 50 Drawbar Organ tones, as well as 250 rhythms and auto accompaniment patterns.


Fully loaded with features including controller sliders

• Nine control sliders provide an intuitive touch for controlling the drawbar organ tones and other functions.

• Large control dial offer access to the various functions used in music production such as the sequencers and mixer.

• The Pitch Bend Wheel enables realistic reproduction of instrumental performance techniques such as guitar string bending and saxophone pitch bending.

• The Modulation Button provides access to powerful vibrato effects.

• The Piano-style Keyboard with Touch Response enables the user to add delicate nuances to notes by varying the pressure applied to the keys.

• Rich variety of input and output terminals, including an input jack for plugging in instruments or microphones.


Functions for supporting many kinds of performances

• The Arpeggiator automatically plays back built-in arpeggios or various phrases at the touch of keys.

• Various detailed settings for tone, rhythm, tempo, and other items can be saved and easily called up using the Registration function.

• Auto accompaniment based on standard chord progressions along with tones can be selected and called up at the press of a button using Music Presets.


Realistic tones and rich sound

• The AHL* Sound Source generator applies waveforms that faithfully reproduce the sounds of real instruments.
* Acoustic & Highly compressed Large-waveform.

• The bass reflex 2-way, 4-speaker system produces rich sound across the tonal spectrum from low to high frequencies.

Heres the manual....

http://support.casio.com/pdf/008/CTK7000_WK7500E1A_webt.pdf

76 & 61 models keys too

OH BABY LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!!!!

ARRANGER WARS!!!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2010).]

NO, NO, NO...it can't be 76 keys BECAUSE YAMAHA SAYS THAT IS NOT REQUIRED AND WON'T SELL!

Who would want one?

Lee S.

This is the one I had heard rumors about quite some time ago, and posted about it here on SZ.

Great stuff for Casio.

Competition always benefits us players/users/owners.

I'm sure they have every one's(meaning other manufacturers) attention.

Ian

Later thoughts...I'm wondering if the auto-accompaniment is still only two variations as opposed to Yamaha's four...nothing in the specs to indicate what it is.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-16-2010).]

OK...KORG...your next!

Lee S.

The WK7500 manual is available here:

http://support.casio.com/manualfile.php?rgn=1&cid=008011141

It appears the styles have only two variations...that's not good.

Nice to see that slash chords are available.

Ian

Wow! Finally a follow up to the old MZ-2000. They did reduce a few features though. There are less variations, intros, endings. The old MZ had a 15W speaker system. I'm curious if they carried over the extensive tone editing that was available on the MZ. It's good to see Casio jumping back in the game ;-) I wonder what the price tag will be.... I'm a little surprised to see the poly at 64 notes too. Casio is using 128 on other models.

**I almost forgot.., the old MZ-2000 even had aftertouch!!!!**

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-16-2010).]

76 weighs only 19 lbs, 61 only
15 lbs.....and can use up to a 32g memory card!

These will sell like hotcakes at BJ's, Sams club, and Costco

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2010).]

I don't know about that Donny. If they market these models like the MZ-2000 you won't find them in those stores.

If they are cheap enough, I might pick one up myself...the slash chord feature is a must for me.

It's also nice to see the arpeggiator feature.

I have good buddy who sells Casio, and we might even work a deal.

I used their pro synths/samplers for years...great instruments, and very good support too, at the time.

Ian

Good to see you, Squeak...these models must interest you a lot.

Like me, you have a soft spot for Casio.

Ian

PS...64-note poly is a surprise to me too...I would have thought 96 or 128...guess they're trying to keep costs down.

Hey Ian.., it has been a while huh Yeah.., I've got a soft spot for Casio too. I've owned many over the years (back to the old CZ series). I even owned their flagship MZ-2000. These new models are interesting.., but I see some MAJOR feature drops when compared to their last flagship (MZ-2K). If it sounds good, performs well, and is priced right, I'll pick one up too. Last Casio I had was the WK-3500. Had a lot of fun with that keyboard.

Sqk



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-16-2010).]

I had a CZ-101, a CZ-1000 a CZ-1 and a VZ-1 (which had a really cool preset called "See God!") and also the sampler, I believe it was called the FZ-1.

I bet Fran buys one of these WK-7500..would be a great lightweight 76'er substitute for his portly G-70...then he could get rid of those expensive chick roadies.

I wonder when they'll hit the stores.

Ian

Check out this site!
http://www.casio-intl.com/emi/high_grade/

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-16-2010).]

Im thinking $700-900 retail

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2010).]

I'd imagine it'd sell close to the $1,000 range for the 76er. What's really amazing is they have FOUR versions of this model..., WOW!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-16-2010).]

That black cabinet looks classy.

Ian

Now Drum roll please......
What does it sound like?

You guys are getting too excited over this....

This is not the WOW!!! factor that the MZ2000 had at the time...This is a WK series..and it is just a few clicks above the WK500..

Sure it has some nice "buzz " word features...but when you take a close look at them....they are so..so..

As Ian said the Casio is the line to compete with the lower Yamaha lines..and Casio will do well against them..as always..

Look at the detriments:
The WK7500 does not have lyric read..let alone chord read..

It has 16 track sequencer (Kudos), but too menu driven to interest most folks..

Many of the features are too menu driven..

The display is Dot Matrix type (probably why lyric read is not used...}.

The key feel will most likely be like the WK500 (about the same feel as the Yamaha YPG series)..

The audio files are proprietary..and need to be converted via software to use on the keyboard...and the screen display and search will be poor..


The Yamaha PSRs910, Roland Prelude and Korg PA 500 owners will not be interested in this board as a replacement..All three of these models will be superior to the Casio..

I would expect the Casio WK7500 to have a street price of $500...so they will sell to first time buyers etc..

The previous Casios had limitations on media cards (255 seq's max)..I did not see this info, and it can read 32g cards,,so maybe that limitation is gone..or it could still be a limit on SMF's, and no limit to the audio (special format) files..

Still may be a nice buy, but the excitement I think is over done..

Wow - it even has fingered on bass - very cool

Yeah...very necessary in my opinion.

I'm a bit disappointed the styles are only two variation.

I wonder how accurate the organ draw-bar and Leslie sim are?

Ian

Fran hit it right on the head on all counts!! It is what it is!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-16-2010).]

I think Casio is testing the waters with this new offering.
Yes the specs look impressive for Casio but I would not classify it as a TOTL.
And how it sounds is going to play a big big part of the whole equation.
It would be interesting to see what the price is and how they market it.
I think this is meant to compete with the Yamaha S710.
But like Fran said it will not attract the S910 or prelude buyer.

What it does however is make the case for Yamaha to make a 76 key S series.
I am sure Yamaha is listening because this offering from Casio seeks to cut in to Yamaha’s very lucrative entry level arranger products.
How did they manage to make the 76 key version only 19 LBS?

By not listening to a word Ian says...

By not using the piggy old G-70 as an example...

Casio is certainly testing the waters "again" with these new models. They did the exact same thing with the MZ-2000. That model was a huge gamble for Casio. It had MANY advanced features, and it was anyones guess as to how well consumers would accept the MZ-2000 (and the price it was selling for at the time). It was (and still to this day) unlike any other Casio ever produced.

What cannot be denied here is that Casio has upped the game for Yamaha's PSR line. There are now (FOUR) models in this new WK series, and what's impressive is that they ALL have 16 trk sequencers (with an added system track). While Yamaha is still producing units with 32 note poly, Casio has pushed theirs up to 48. They've also brought back basic tone editing, and added it to all four models.

Honestly I wouldn't really consider the WK-7500 a replacement for the MZ-2000, but it's an EXCELLENT move on Casio's part, and a move in the right direction for them. I also think it's probably a little inaccurate to refer to the 7500 as a TOTL arranger as well. Both the 7500 and 7000 are more in the semi-pro range. If these units are priced right, and are an improvement on their current sound set., I will "certainly" be picking one up. Maybe it's just me but the 61 key version is just downright sexy! I love the black body with the blue LED's, nice bright screen, the sliders (along with the color) give it a very professional look.

If I read correctly.., I'm seeing release dates for NEXT MONTH, which I think is also supported by the computer data management software scheduled for December of 2010.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-17-2010).]

Squeak, the new WK series are 64 polyphony..

They certainly have upped the game, Squeak.

That means that Yamaha has to upgrade/update their DGX and PSR lines, which means that we players gain.

Competition really keeps these companies on their toes, and us guys get the benefits.

I can't wait to try the WK-7500, although I might opt for the 61 key version.(the 7000?)

Ian

I know I prefer to have 128 (considering Casio's already using this on other models).., but 64 is better than 32, and better than 48

I just need to see where they price these puppies at. The WK-7000 is on the table for me.., but only if it's priced right, and sounds good. I hope the effects are comparable to the WK-3500. The 3500 had one of the BEST distorted wha guitar effects I've ever heard on ANY keyboard to date.

Sqk

Good news! Now let's wait for the sound samples to surface.

Shame for the 2 variations though, they already had styles with 4 variations on the MZ, they could transfer them.

Squeak, nice to know you are still around.

the Wk series always had great Piano's and Organs w/ leslie efx.....but thats it the rest and styles leave alot to be desiered.....lets see if this has changed.

I am a total newbie looking for my first keyboard (studied piano as a kid but haven't played for >15 years), so please forgive me if I am getting something wrong. I was thinking about WK-3800 when this announcement of WK-7500/CTK-7000 appeared. I have checked the manual and it seems to me that besides all the improvements mentioned in this forum, they have actually removed some important features. In particular, the option of using your own samples ("user tones with waves") is no longer there. In fact, the ability to download stuff from the Internet ("Internet Data Expansion System"), which was one way to get those samples, is not even mentioned. Also, they have limited further the already limited synth capabilities by removing the option of adjusting the resonance (so now it's only attack, release and cutoff). Am I misunderstanding something? If not, any idea why they did that? It's extremely disappointing, because I wanted something that I could not only play, but also experiment with sounds and upload my own ones and the Casio WK series seems to be the only one in this price range to allow all of this.

[This message has been edited by MChub (edited 09-17-2010).]

I telephoned Casio today and was told the release date for the new arrangers is "October." I spoke to two reps and finally the dept supv. They all said the same thing...that they haven't been told anything at all about its release date other than October.

Even if that 7500 is NOT a TOTL-er, it doesn't mean it's not even worth considering. Diki said something a few weeks ago about buying or not buying the "latest and greatest" all the time (and "waste of time"). Since then I've been starting to think is a high end keyboard really worth it if all the bells & whistles are going to get in the way of me making my own music.

And then I'm also thinking reality thoughts. Most audiences wouldn't know (or even care) if you're playing the L&G (latest & greatest) or you're coaxing music out of an entry level Casio.

Lucky

Despite me being a previous owner of a couple of Casio models in the 80's-as well as a WK-3800 owner,I have been out of touch with Casio for most of the last 20 years and I was not even aware of the MZ-2000 until now....so I can easily understand some of the disappointments people here have toward the WK-7500.
However though,it's all about the sounds & I'm sure that Casio's sample quality has improved since then.
I'm also glad that Casio finally discarded those horrible floppy drives!

It's really amazing to me that how people's estimates of the possible price points vary so drastically.
The individual who mentioned the $500 price tag is either from Mars,or has never set foot into the semi-pro/pro world of keyboards.
Think about it...the WK-3800 only had 6 tracks,no pattern mode,no quantizing,no metronome,half the polyphony and half the tones.
Then on the other distant end of the spectrum,we have an individual who predicts that the WK-7500 will be a $1,000??

Doesn't this person have any clue as to what can be had for this price?
The Yamaha MO6,Korg M50(which buy the way,has 80 note polyphony,5 insert effects,3 master effects,a 4 X 5" touch screen display and is a scaled down version of the M3) and for $300 to $500 more,one could get a Kurzweil PC3LE6.

The person who mentioned the $700 to $900 range is most likely to be right on the money.

If by some remote possibility the WK-7500 ends up being $500 or $600,then it's going to be a horrendous piece of sh*t in terms of sounds and if it ends up being a grand,then the sound quality had better live up to that price tag,or Casio is going to go belly up.

I really miss some of the sounds & effects of the WK-3800 as they were unique,so if the WK-7500 is a step up from the 3800,then the 7500 should be a banging deal.

I really think Casio will be slitting their own throats,if they don't keep this board under a $1,000.

By the way...how much did the MZ-2000 go for back in the day?
I could not find a price on it anywhere,on the net.
The MZ's display screen was very impressive...I could not believe it when I saw it in a YouTube vid...but then again,I have no idea what the price tag was on it??


-Elwood

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-17-2010).]

Another thing...someone here mentioned the WK-7500 being released in October and that is the second person I've read about,who mentioned the same month.....where are you people getting this information??

I combed though every article & product page I could find on the WK-7500 and I did not see a release date,anywhere??

I even e-mailed Casio several times,as well as phoning them,but they are Godd**n idiots and what's worse,is the American Casio site has no info on the WK-7500 whatsoever(apart from them having the PDF manual).

All this being said,I have a difficult time believing that the WK-7500 is going to be in stores in a couple of weeks or so.


-Elwood

Elwood, at least you retracted your "crackhead" comment about me..

Since you have been out of touch ,,maybe I will give you a history lesson so you can make better decisions about pricing..

I think you will find that my $500 street price will be on the mark..let me explain it to you..in a way you should understand...

The WK300 (40 voices compared to the WK3800 32 voice), had a street price of under $200..

The WK500 street price was between $250 and $300..

With a marginal improved model..the WK7500 will be no more than double the WK500 street price..making it $500..


As for knowing products and pricing, I have made it my business to know..(former "pro" line music dealer for 20 years)...

BTW: dealer cost for the Casio MZ2000 was just under $950...

It is interesting that on the Japanese Casio site

http://casio.jp/emi/products/high_grade/

they only list CTK-7000 (the 61-key version), as well as WK-6500 and CTK-6000, but not WK-7500. The release date given there for CTK-7000 is 10/2010. Looks like they've changed their mind and WK-7500 will not be released at the same time. The price given there for CTK-7000 is 63,000 yen (or 66,150 with taxes), which is roughly $750, however, a few sites offer it for 49,800 yen (or ~$600). For instance,

http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/product/100000001001267238/index.html

http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/kurosawa-music/casio-ctk7000.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/97580.html

http://www.ishibashi-webshop.jp/shop/g/g421026200/


http://www.coneco.net/PriceList.asp?COM_ID=1100904002


http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/ProductDetail.asp?Item=225%5ECTK7000%5E%5E


These sites also give the release date as late October. If I remember correctly, at these same sites WK-7500 was also listed a few days ago (don't remember the price, though), but it seems it has been removed since.

[This message has been edited by MChub (edited 09-17-2010).]

For anyone Interested the Advertised Price which is always somewhat higher than the Buying Price, Is
Us Dollar 579
Euro 444
UK Pound 371.
Jap Yen 39800

Looks like Fran was Spot on.

Gilbert.

[This message has been edited by gilbert (edited 09-18-2010).]

Elwood, I suggest you go look up the Casio MZ-2000. Casio can and HAS put out a semi-pro arranger in the $1,000 and up price range.

This new WK/CTK series (when looking at the WK-7500 and CTK-7000) would appear to be closer to what the MZ-2000 used to be. The current WK-3k series doesn't even come close.

These newer models (the upper units) have 16 track sequencers with event editing, ect. They have full style recorders for creating ORIGINAL styles and NOT the mix and match feature you find on the other Casio models. Casio has also brought back the 9 sliders! I would be very surprised if the Drawbar Organ feature on the WK/CTK was any less than the MZ-2000 (which had an amazing organ section by the way).

These new units have been COMPLETELY redesigned too. Don't forget that even though they may have dropped the TONE WITH WAV feature.., casio has added AUDIO recording to the two upper end units.

I'd be VERY surprised to see the 7500 hit the $500-$600 range. With the spec list (IMO) I see it getting closer to the $1,000 mark. Remember now.., the MZ-2000 was selling upwards of $1,300 as well.

Fran,

My apologies,as it appears that you are not a crack-head from Mars.:~}
It seems evident that the folks at Casio,are the crack-heads.
If in fact,the MSRP is only $579,then you're right,the WK-7500 is nothing to get too excited over.
I can't fathom why the WK-7500 is so inexpensive,as I paid $399 for my WK-3800 and to this day,it s-t-i-l-l maintains it's price tag of $399....wtf?

I was hoping for some decent WAV ROM from Casio,as I have grown tired of spending big wads of green on pro boards.
I was originally looking at the Yamaha Motif XF,but since I have software,I can't justify spending $2399 on a 61 key....at least not currently.

Since Casio is unwilling to disclose the amount of megabytes worth of ROM,then my guess is that the amount of ROM is something ridiculous like 64MB and when this amount of waveform data is dispersed int0 800 sounds,then the tones on the WK-7500 are going to be really thin and the WK-7500 will be nothing more than a toy that you'll find at your local Wal-Mart.

I hope I'm wrong though...but the price is far too low,so something is terribly wrong here.


-Elwood

Squeak D,

You might want to read through my posts again,as I did mention that I HAD looked up the MZ-2000 and I ASKED people here how much the MZ-2000 was going for,because I could NOT find the price of it anywhere.

Like I had said,I was not even aware of the MZ-2000's existence,until I visited this thread.

Why do you insist on believing that the WK-7500 is going to have a $1,000 price tag??

I mentioned this before and I'll reiterate it,the Korg M50 is $1,000 has 80 notes of polyphony,256MB of ROM,5 insert effects and a 4 X 5 inch touch screen,whereas the WK-7500 has none of these features.

It has been 10 years since the MZ-2000 was released and technological advances have taken place since then,which equates to upgrades in features for a lower cost.

Bear in mind also,that the WK-7500 is a downgrade from the MZ-2000 in some aspects,which negates the possibility of the WK-7500 having a $1,000 price tag.


-Elwood

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-18-2010).]

Elwood.., you'll soon realize that comparing the feature/spec list to PRICE between arrangers and workstations is a waste of time my friend ;-) That's just how it is.

Just have a look at the price difference between the current Yamaha Tyros 3 and the top end Motif XS-8. One is only 61 keys and made of plastic.., while the other is built like a tank with 88 graded hammer action keys. Yet look at the price difference between the two (while comparing the spec list)...

Squeak,

Why bring professional arrangers into this discussion?
Arrangers have always cost more than workstations,as the the amount of programming involved with all of the extra accompaniments & such,increases the production costs.

In the case of the Tyros 3,just take a look at the elaborate interface and the size of the screen,as that effects the pricing dramatically.

Think about your speculative price tag in terms of marketing in a logical way...most Casio users either don't have the wallet or the means to justify spending a grand on a high end consumer grade keyboard.

If Casio is actually dilusional enough to slap a $1,000 price tag on the WK-7500, then two things will happen....it won't sell,the price will be dramatically lowered and it will be discontinued after a couple of years.

In order for the WK-7500 to appeal to the average Casio user,the price must be well under a $1,000 and for the 7500 to appeal to the more serious musician,the 7500 would have to be imbued with all of the features of the old MZ-2000,along with all of the current features of the 7500.

Bottom line,is that the WK-7500 would have to closely compete with the Korg M50,which it does not.

As for Casio completely redesigning a keyboard,it does not account for much in terms of production costs,as Casio as a whole,is an enormous company that manufactures everything from watches to cameras.
That being said,Casio has plenty of capitol to invest in research and development,without being adversely affected by it,in the least.

Casio simply has not put a $1,000 worth of features into the WK-7500,as a 240 X 80 display screen,64 note polyphony,synth action keys,2 send effects and audio recording is pretty standard in a budget workstation.
Bear in mind also,that you have no idea,the amount of WAV ROM in the WK-7500,as Casio does not reveal such info.
The old Alesis QS8 sample based synth,only had 16MB of ROM-and yet,they managed to squeeze 600 sounds out of it,so the 800 tones of the WK-7500,may not necessarily amount to much,in terms of actual ROM content.
As mentioned here already in this thread,a lot of the functions of the WK-7500 are menu-driven,which means less physical controls,thereby less cost in terms of production.


-Elwood

.

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-20-2010).]

Elwood... Justifying the price difference between arrangers and WS by citing the content as the reason might have been reasonable before loopstations and arps became commonplace, but, to be fair, a modern WS like the MoXf has what seems like JUST as much content in it as an arranger. THOUSANDS of intricately detailed loops, patterns and complete chord following multi-part arps has basically leveled the playing field in this area, not to mention the audio loops that often come with them...

The price difference is mostly due to 'economy of scale'. WS's outsell arrangers probably at LEAST 100:1, and it is cheaper to design and manufacture something if you make a LOT of them. Arrangers are rapidly becoming niche products (or toys), and it's hard to make a profit on something you only sell a handful of (comparatively).

JMO...

Diki,

Ok then,you do bring up an interesting point...so am I to understand that you concur with Squeak on the $1,000 price tag of the WK-7500?

I'm just really curious as to how many people out there,would honestly think that the WK-7500 would go for a grand and if so....how many of you would choose the Casio over a Yamaha MO6,or a Korg M50??


-Elwood

The reasons that it can't beat psr s710 (for arranger players).


Turn offs
------------

Modulation button (no wheel)
2 variations (even psr 550 has 4)
250 styles only

Miss this...? No, I don't think that a Casio, even with a few unique features, is going to make it to the $1000 point with only two variations, and as stripped down a feature list as it has.

But my point was solely about the price difference between arrangers and WS's. Comparative value between different arrangers is FAR more about perception and marketing than actual value. Does a Rolex keep noticeably better time than a Timex? Not enough to justify a $5000 difference, IMO!

If Casio want to move into the high end, or even MOTL, they are going to have to do a LOT more than most to overcome their 'toy' status, despite the odd (and generally ancient) success they had. This isn't going to do it, that's for sure!

The Casio WK-7500 is not an arranger keyboard and is not marketed as such.

The reasons that the Casio WK-7500 can beat the PSR S710;

the WK-7500 is a workstation,which means that it has a midi sequencer(pattern mode,quantize,event edit)

Value priced,as Casio did not dump the bulk of the expenses on the screen.

Try and record 16 tracks of audio without any midi sequencing & quantizing on the PSR,without it sounding like a train wreck.....as if you can pull that off,I would be very impressed to no end.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-18-2010).]

Miss this...? No, I don't think that a Casio, even with a few unique features, is going to make it to the $1000 point with only two variations, and as stripped down a feature list as it has.

But my point was solely about the price difference between arrangers and WS's. Comparative value between different arrangers is FAR more about perception and marketing than actual value. Does a Rolex keep noticeably better time than a Timex? Not enough to justify a $5000 difference, IMO!

If Casio want to move into the high end, or even MOTL, they are going to have to do a LOT more than most to overcome their 'toy' status, despite the odd (and generally ancient) success they had. This isn't going to do it, that's for sure!

Actually no,I did not miss that earlier posting,as I just meant that in general...as in the general public,who else would think of the WK-7500 as a $1,000 item? :~}

[B]Well...I am of the opinion,that if the WK-7500 ends up going for say,around $700 and if Casio puts most of their focus on sheer sound quality,than I would not really consider the WK-7500 as a toy.

We'll just have to sit on our hands & see what happens in the next month or so.

-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-18-2010).]

Sorry, but my G70 has a full 16 track sequencer. Doesn't stop it from being an arranger, though (despite what the marketing weenies put on the front panel ).

Jeez, guys, can't we agree on a simple definition of an arranger? If it has auto accompaniment, pre-defined fills and variations (and the live triggering of those in sync), preset full accompaniment styles (where all the parts are related), IT'S AN ARRANGER.

Adding a few WS features to it no more makes it a WS than adding incomplete, stripped down chord following to a WS makes it an arranger.

Sure, the lines are getting a LITTLE bit blurred, but at least MY eyesight isn't THAT poor...

And, if you REALLY thought the WK was not an arranger, and was in actual fact a WS, you would be posting about it on some WS forum like the MoXS boys do - at least THEY have the common sense to know what it is... Only arranger players have a big enough chip on their shoulders as to suggest that having ANY WS-like features AT ALL makes an arranger a WS!

Me, I'm PROUD that my G70 is an 'arranger'. I'm not looking for the flimsiest excuses to call it a WS, as if being an arranger were something to be ashamed of...

Well...if were going to split hairs here,then I suppose I could classify my Korg M3 as an arranger,since on certain programs and especially in the combi-mode,all I have to do is hit a single note and set off a pre-programed sequence.
M3 also has the Karma arpeggio function,so it really wouldn't require much on my part to create nearly an entire song using automation.

Yes the higher end arrangers have midi sequencing,but the dividing line between the workstation and the arranger,is that the arranger keyboards have an overabundance of auto-accompaniments and are just too damn expensive.

I personally don't care for arranger keyboards,because I prefer to write completely original music,by programming my own drum,bass,guitar, & synth tracks by hand,as I have been doing for the last 22 years.

If a musician is willing to be original & creative enough to build his/her own accompaniments by hand,then a workstation can do the same job as an arranger and for a lot less money.

-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

Lucky2Bhere,

Which phone number(s) did you call?I called the tech line(800-435-7732) after I had e-mailed support twice and they had no info.

When I finally received a response from e-mail support,I was told to call the very same number...very irritating people to deal with there.
I was however,told to call another number when I had spoke with someone on the phone,which was (800-706-2534)...which is repair,which does not make much sense.

In addition to the repair number,I am also going to try the direct sales number on Monday.

I am determined to get a firm date on the release of the WK-7500-as well as confirmation on the price and I am going to continue to keep pestering the people at Casio until they cough up the info I want.

Whenever pro keyboards are announced,they always provide a release date & pricing info...but for some reason,there's no communication between Japan & America,as Casio USA, is a Godd**n joke.

Perhaps I should purchase the Rosetta Stone software to learn Japanese,so that I could speak to someone in Tokyo(probably the only means of finding out any useful info).


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

Low end instrument.
Lee S.

I don’t believe the WK 7500 can record 16 tracks of audio.
Now instead of arguing if the WK-7500 is a workstation or arranger, we should look at who is the potential market of this keyboard.


Casio is hoping that this offering could appeal to those who would buy a Yamaha S710. Some one who would want something quick and easy and primarily want to play at home but gives them the possibility of taking it on a gig with out no hassle.
I don’t think we can classify it as being an entry level but it is more a way for Casio to get recognized in the pro market. If semi pro players start using the WK 7500 on gigs, then that would give Casio the incentive to create a keyboard with more features that could compete with a PSR S910.
JMO


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I have shortened my ID to TTG

[/B][/QUOTE]

I don’t believe the WK 7500 can record 16 tracks of audio.
Now instead of arguing if the WK-7500 is a workstation or arranger, we should look at who is the potential market of this keyboard.


Casio is hoping that this offering could appeal to those who would buy a Yamaha S710. Some one who would want something quick and easy and primarily want to play at home but gives them the possibility of taking it on a gig with out no hassle.
I don’t think we can classify it as being an entry level but it is more a way for Casio to get recognized in the pro market. If semi pro players start using the WK 7500 on gigs, then that would give Casio the incentive to create a keyboard with more features that could compete with a PSR S910.
JMO

I never said the WK-7500 had 16 tracks of audio,I was just pointing out the advantage of recording multiple tracks using midi sequencing,as supposed to recording multiple tracks of audio.
I mean,it's a mute point,for people to start a debate to make comparisons to a budget workstation with midi sequencing,versus a mid-grade arranger that only has audio recording.

The only reason this debate even surfaced,is because Ahmed posted the Casio WK-7500 topic in the wrong category to begin with.

I don't think Casio is looking for recognition from the pro market necessarily-but rather,they simply want to appeal more to the hobbyist and budget musician,who want to get more serious about their recording & desire some pro-type recording functionality.

I think it's safe to say also,that computer recording is so immensely popular amongst people with moderate incomes,that software programs & value priced midi controllers are detrimental to the sales of Casio keyboards.

That being said,I think the WK-7500 will be enormously appealing to people of this particular demographic,as not only will the simplicity & flexibility of the WK-7500 be a big draw,but also to people who want a break away from their computers for a while and just enjoy the ease of simply flipping the power switch on their Casios and immediately begin creating more intricate songs,that were not possible on previous Casio models.

If Casio did indeed,want to set foot into the pro realm and make a new name for themselves,then they must know that they would have to make a huge investment,by creating a workstation with at least as much functionality & WAV ROM as the Korg M50.

Casio has been making keyboards for as long as I can remember,which spans at least 30 years,so if they were going to "test the waters" and go pro,they would have done so already.

It seems evident that Casio's level of recording capabilities has peeked with the MZ-2000 and with the WK-7500 being a step back from the MZ in certain aspects,that to me,sets the tone for what Casio has in store for the future.

Casio may add slight enhancements to their future keyboards,as advancing technology becomes cheaper and more widespread,but bottom line,is that Casio is a consumer grade company and has been so,since the 1950's.


-Elwood


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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-18-2010).]

I've collected enough Casio phone #'s over the years to take up a GB of hard drive space. Yes, they are very difficult to get information from. Very polite, but DIFFICULT! I never seem to get a professional person to talk to. Usually end up getting my info from whatever operator answers the phone.

I think I used one of these but I can't be sure:

800-836-8580 (musical instruments) 800-706-2534 x 4 (customer service)
for Technical support in USA call 1-800 435-7732

I think Casio made the WK 7500 for those who play styles and for those wo like to modify styles.

JMO

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I have shortened my ID to TTG

/b][/QUOTE]

I've collected enough Casio phone #'s over the years to take up a GB of hard drive space. Yes, they are very difficult to get information from. Very polite, but DIFFICULT! I never seem to get a professional person to talk to. Usually end up getting my info from whatever operator answers the phone.

I think I used one of these but I can't be sure:

800-836-8580 (musical instruments) 800-706-2534 x 4 (customer service)
for Technical support in USA call 1-800 435-7732

It will probably be an exercise in futility,but I think my best chance at obtaining any pertinent info,would be via their direct sales line(800-836-8580).

-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

Yes, Lee, it does appear that way, but maybe the sounds and styles are decent.

It's certainly not going to cut in to PSR-S910/S710, but it should compete very well with Yamaha's DGX piano arrangers, and lower end PSR.

Bet the next DGX get some cool enhancements...gotta love competition!

Ian

Casio is getting back into the high(er) end game with this new arranger and it's nice to see them doing so.

The WK-7500 is still lacking some vital essentials though. The speaker system is only 7W x 2 which is 5 Watts 'less' than the Yamaha PSR series. Only 64 polyphony too which just doesn't cut it in today's market in my opinion. You need at least 128 polyphony but I'm still anticipating that someone will shock the keyboard world by coming out with an arranger with "256" note polyphony and hopefully sooner rather than later. No aftertouch either but that's expected for a mid-range arranger.

OTOH, depending on how it sounds, it could be a great little board for someone just starting out or as a spare arranger in a pinch. The "nine" drawbar sliders are a HUGE plus I might add. I expect Casio to introduce it at a great price point too. $500 is peanuts for a 76 key mid-range arranger if it sounds great and the features work as advertised. Coming in at under 20 lbs doesn't hurt either... especially your back when you pick it up right?

GUESS WHAT!?!?!? Roland U.S. has 'removed' the G70 from their web site arranger section. What that says to me is that Roland is "brewing" up something BIG to replace the G70 in the not too distant future! Maybe it'll be announced at winter NAMM '11? Or perhaps Musikmesse '11?? THIS COULD BE HUUUGGGGGGEEEE!!! I'm really looking forward to Roland's next high-end arranger. They've had almost "six" years to work on a G70 successor and hopefully the wait will have been worth it. We'll see. I betcha Yamaha isn't looking forward to it though. It could severely cut into Tyros4 sales if the new Roland has 76 keys and also has more professional features and goodies - like decent sounding Drum kits for one. lol

All the best,
Mike

Mike,

I know this may seem like a frivolous question,but did you read through any of these posts?
The WK-7500 is not-repeat not,an arranger.The definition of an arranger has already been outlined in this thread in great detail,so there's no point in beating the sh*t out of a dead horse.
Why is high wattage such a critical feature of a keyboard?
The amplifiers that are built into keyboards are crap,compared to a decent set of studio monitors anyhow.
The speaker systems in the WK series sound nice for general listening purposes,but were not designed for critical listening where accurate mixes are a requirement and unless your going to perform live at an arena,a total of 14 watts is sufficient.

Why is a minimum of 128 polyphony so essential?
Have you ever maxed out your 128 polyphony using a 16 track sequencer?Of course not.
I've been sequencing with 128 notes of polyphony for 7 years and I've NEVER maxed out it's capacity.
I owned a Korg M50 for about a year before I decided to sell it for an M3 and I've NEVER maxed out the M50's 80 note polyphony.

64 polyphony doesn't seem reasonable to you for a budget workstation?
Name ONE workstation or arranger keyboard on the market (besides the Roland Juno G)for under a $1,000 that has more than 64 note polyphony.
Bear in mind though,that the Juno G was originally $1100 and it has no pattern-based sequencing anyhow.
All Roland workstations sound like toys,for what they charge and if you want decent sounds for them,you have to spend a fortune on SRX & ARX cards.
A lot of people knock Casio,but price proportionate-wise,Casio offers so much more for the money and even some of the sounds in the higher end WK series are better than the Roland workstations.

Roland used to be at the top of their game when they made the Super JX-10 in the 80's,but Roland hasn't produced anything worthwhile in the last 10 years,except for the V-Synth.
There stand alone synths are good,but their workstations are piss poor sound-wise, and so overpriced.
Besides which,there are some very economically viable solutions to getting around the limitations of 64 notes without a computer,such as adding a Zoom R24 digital recorder to your gear set up($500).

If you want a completely self sufficient workstation or arranger,than you're going to have to spend at least a $1,000 to achieve that.

Since the WK-7500 will be well under a thousand(if not $500),then there's absolutely no point in complaining about it,until you've heard it.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

"The Casio WK-7500 features a Song Sequencer offering 16 tracks plus one system track. On the system track, both the keyboard performance and the auto accompaniment are simultaneously recorded."

The above is a quote from Casio's site, and indicates the WK-7500 has auto-accompaniment...that makes it an arranger in my opinion.

Your mileage may vary.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-19-2010).]

Ian more info..


"The WK-7500 is equipped with 800 diverse tones and 250 rhythms built-in. Included in the tones are 50 Drawbar Organ tones that can be adjusted using nine sliders that function as drawbars corresponding to certain ranges of overtones. Users can also change the speed of the rotary speaker effect and add percussion at the press of a button—making the enjoyment of performing come more and more alive."

Plus it loads in styles, and you can create your own...

Yeah, it's an arranger, alright.

Ian

Anything that has pre-programmed styles and dedicated buttons to start, stop, break fill, change variation and so on, is an arranger IMHO, I have to agree with that.

Interesting note: I noticed a shop here in Athens with a sign reading "Roland center". Got in and played an E-50. Good enough. They also had a G-70 V3 in there, i asked the guy "about it" and he said that they are discontinued, that Roland is going to bring only MOTL arrangers on the market such as E-50 or Prelude etc, and that the price for brand new stock for the G-70 while it lasts is at about 2200 Euros. Compare that to 1900 Euros that a new PSR 910 costs here and I think you have a bargain. Or not? Let the flame war begin

Since my economic situation is not the best as I am currently unemployed, please don't depress me more by quoting prices in the US, I know we are being ripped off!

That's easy...those who like the Roland sound and don't mind the weight will get a great deal on a fine arranger.

Those enamored with the Yamaha sound will get the S910, which also has more features and built in speakers.

Still, that's a good price for a new G-70.

Ian

As you can see from visiting this link,even Casio can differentiate between an arranger & a workstation.
http://www.casio.com/products/Musical_Instruments/Workstation

For those of you who are still confused about which is which,perhaps this tutorial will help;
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/home-keyboards/buying-guide.php#2


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

Thanks Elwood...that settles it...the WK-7500 uses styles (full accompaniments) so it is an arranger.

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php#1

Nothing confusing at all.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-19-2010).]

Yeah...you guys are correct...my mistake.In fact,all music retailers who split keyboards up into separate categories,such as the Motif XF and the Tyros 3,are just trying to scam the customer.
Yes indeed,these corporations are in some joint conspiracy to concoct a crafty & deceitful sales strategy,by mislabeling keyboards,in an effort to confuse a buyer into spending more money on arrangers,when in fact,all of these keyboards are the same.

Maybe you people ought to file a class action lawsuit against all music retailers,for false advertising.

There's a saying; "sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken".

Meaning that just because workstations have similarities to arrangers,does not make a workstation an arranger.
Just about every keyboard in existence,has some sort of auto-accompaniment,or some sort of pre-programmed feature...so does that make virtually every keyboard out there,an arranger?

Ok fine....prove me wrong...go into a GuitarCenter or Samash and tell them you want the new Motif XF arranger keyboard and if the salesperson does not correct you,then you win the debate.
Better yet though,you should call up Sweetwater.com and talk to a salesperson there,because there are quite few idiots working in places like GuitarCenter & SamAsh.

In the simplest of terms,an arranger keyboard is simply a workstation where one of it's main functions is auto accompaniments and a lot more of them,than a workstation.
This is why they are categorized as arrangers,so it's really not a gray area here.
If it's really so important for some of you to refer to workstations as arrangers,then contact the administrator of this forum and ask him/her to merge the different categories together & see how well that goes over.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

The WK series as are most of Casio's line..even some of their pianos...are "auto accompaniment"..and this term has been substituted with the term "arranger" for the last 15-20 years..

"arranger" keyboards that have improved sequencers (16 or more tracks), and editing capabilities..have been labeled "workstations" by the manufacturers..

Yep, we have one too: "If you stick your boots in the oven, it don't make them biscuits."

Ellie, why don't you go first with your suggestion of a class action suit...let us know how it turns out?

My buddy has an old '63 Chevy Impala Super Sport...it has an in-line six and a 2-speed Powerglide automatic.

Though it is a fine vehicle, it is neither "Super" or "Sporty".

Jes 'cause Casio writ "Worksation" on their arranger, doesn't make it one, much the same as callin' yerself Elwoodblues doesn't make you John Belushi, or, puttin' the names of lots of "pro" gear as your signature makes you a "pro".

It's you that makes you a pro.


Fran above, has the correct answer...he's an old arranger player from way back when.

And, he's qualified to give it, 'cause he's old, and he plays an arranger.

Ian

Mind you, the DGX's and NP-80v's and CVP all have the qualifications to be CALLED 'arrangers', at least those that Ian uses to call the WK an arranger...

But, mysteriously, Yamaha (and Ian) would rather die than admit that THEY are arrangers... Possibly because, compared to other similar offerings from other arranger manufacturers, they aren't as dominant as the PSR's and Tyros's in their field...

When you can't win the game, change the rules...

Seems to work for you quite well.

Ian

If nothing else,putting keyboards into different categories aids in people choosing the appropriate keyboard for their specific needs.
Some people don't want to pay extra for all of the additional auto accompaniments & such and I've read where the Yamaha Tyros 3 does not integrate nearly as well with a PC as the Motif series does.
The Tyros 3 costs $2200 more than the Motif XF6 and for what??
Just so people who are too lazy or inept to create their own accompaniments?
Arrangers are for old farts in retirement homes and people who play at weddings & barmitzvahs.
It would be pretty silly to slap an arranger label on a Motif XF,whereby a person takes a keyboard home thinking that they've bought a keyboard that has all of the automation that they wanted,when in fact,it doesn't.

What...you people think that the word arranger is merely a label manufacturers and retailers use to extort extra money out of people?
If that were true,people would eventually get hip to the scam and it would-at some point,kill the sales of arrangers altogether.

As it is,workstations out sell arrangers and this is pretty evident,just by measuring the amount of discussions about workstations versus arrangers amongst various forums.
Anywhere you look,you'll find more product reviews on workstations,then you will on arrangers.
More and more,I see new software coming out that is so automated,that a person does not have to have an ounce of musical ability to create music and it's people like that,that keep the sales of arranger keyboards alive.

There is however,one scenario where a software program like Band In A Box is useful,such as a guitarist,who wants to lay down a song without having to bring a band into his studio.
Still though,I know plenty of people who learn keyboards as well and do all of their own accompaniments using pattern sequencing on a workstation,which is so much more creative and original.
If a guitarist has enough musical ability to play guitar,then learning a keyboard is a breeze,as a keybed is so much more linear.

If you people are going to label all keyboards as being arrangers,then you might as well label the Band In A Box software as being the same as Cubase,Logic,Ableton and all the rest.

If you people worked in a music store,would you go around telling all of your customers that all of your digital keyboards are arrangers?
Don't you think that would cause some confusion amongst some of your potential buyers?
Don't you think that might be a bit detrimental to your employment at that store?

Then again,you could get a job at Wal-Mart and tell your customers that the sky is green and the grass is blue and at least of them will believe it.

I've been on several different gear forums over the years and this is the only forum I've ever seen,where people put up an endless argument over what constitutes an arranger keyboard and what does not.

According to you people though,virtually every digital keyboard out there is in fact,an arranger...so I guess that means that you've people have been imbued with a unique & rare gift for determining what is an actual arranger.

No one else on the net has been able to uncover the underlying truth about keyboards and I guess I've stumbled upon the most astute and elite group of knowledegable musicians on the entire internet....how nice.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

They are digital pianos with arranger features, since they are based on existing digital piano platforms.

The term Yamaha uses is "piano-based arranger".

Don't like their definition?

Don't use it.

Don't like their products?

Don't buy them.

Simple eh? Even for you.

Ian

Yep...but only if you consider people 40 and up "old Farts", because arranger customers start mainly at that age, although some are younger.

Diki, Fran, Donny, Steve, Genny...are they lazy old farts? They use arrangers.

They say you can't recognize things in others unless you have them yourself.

You seem to fit in quite well here, Ellie, and you haven't budged an inch from your original premise which you seem to think is correct...does that make you "stubborn?"

You don't use an arranger either, and this is a General Arranger Forum...perhaps you are in the market for one?

You are in a good place...there are many people here who obviously know far more about arrangers than you, so you'll gets lots of qualified help.

Ian

Even casio can take a trip south?....amazing !!

How about looking at these new models this way. Just for the sake of argument..., lets say the WK-7500 turns out to sound a lot like the WK-3800. If priced right..., would this be a bad thing?

Based on Casio's current sound set they're using.., I think it's safe to assume these boards are NOT going to sound like crap. What I think so many people are overlooking here are some very important features added to these new models as well.

I would suggest reading the manual. The sequencers in the WK-7500/CTK-7000 are VERY good. There's a lot more to the 16 trk sequencer in these models that you don't see from just looking at the specs. Ya gotta read the manual.

Another thing is the "Pattern Sequencer". Along side the 16 trk sequencer you get full style recording (and not just the mix and match system they've been using).., but the ability to create a style from SCRATCH. Again.., ya gotta read the manual.

Granted the Sampling/Tone W/Wav feature may be gone.., but for Pete's sake AUDIO RECORDING HAS TAKEN ITS PLACE! Casio is now allowing you to record your keyboard performance and audio TOGETHER. Plus the ability to use up to a 32GB card! Again.., read the manual folks

Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked.., THE 9 SLIDERS ARE BACK! One thing that MZ-2000 owners loved (including myself) was the sliders. Casio brought those back. Players now (once again) have instant access to the drawbars.., and the sliders function for other uses OUTSIDE of the drawbar organ mode.

Like it or not.., Casio has upped the game with this new line. There is so much more you can do with these new Casio's that you just can't with competing Yamaha models. Hopefully these models have good sales (which I'd be very surprised if they didn't) because their success would possibly mean Yamaha making some changes in the future to their competing line.

**On a side note.., if the WK-7500/CTK 7000 even sound like my old WK-3500.., I'd snatch one up without question. Shoot.., these new models have everything my old 3500 was missing (and more!)**

Squeak good luck with your new WK7500.

Thanks.., I'll be getting one for sure. It's gonna be a toss up between the 7500 or 7000. Getting crowded in my playroom.

I'm very impressed with the features of the WK-7500/7000, and those sliders are a very nice touch.

I'm curious how well the Leslie sim accurately mimics the real thing, but on the whole, these instruments really have upped the game.

The rumors I heard several months ago, were about an instrument that would sit between PSR-S-series, and the Tyros itself...of course, that would mean 4 variation styles and a tone generator with at least 128 poly.

Maybe it still could be on the way?

Based on it's own merits, the WK-7500/7000 is a pretty slick instrument...I'm really looking forward to playing one.

Ian

Squeak, I owned the WK110 (traded it to UD)..it did sound pretty good..some stellar sounds ...and some just average..

I also toyed with the WK500 a few days, but decided to pass..It had the same decent sound banks...( I purchased a Prelude around this time)..I would not pass over the WK7500 because of sounds..the newer sound engine is fine..

The only thing I need now before I decide to buy a ctk 7000, are some DECENT demo videos. I already have a Ketron SD1, so the 7000 will do. There is one demo of ctk 5000 on Youtube, and I guess the 7000 will have the same features, and a lot more.
casaet

So Iana, are they arrangers (like the PSR S910) or not.
And, I guess you would agree that the G70 and WK7500 are workstations because the manufacturers call them that.

------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG

Genny,

They are piano based arrangers...piano first, arranger second; or, more to the point, digital pianos with some arranger features.

I don't care what Roland or Casio call their products.

Iain

I see you are back to your old selfr Iana. Talking in circles and controdicting yourself.

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I have shortened my ID to TTG

Again, Genny, it is your perception that is circular.

Please don't put so much importance on what I say...I certainly don't put any on what you say.

If you aren't satisfied with, or do not understand, Yamaha's definitions...don't use them...use whatever suits you, and whatever you can understand.

Ian