Hi all, here is the video I promised Stephen....very simply and nothing flash, but I hope it gives you an idea of what it is about....

Thank you for the video demo. Pretty slick. Can you call up songs in reverse, that is, pick a song on your keyboard and up pops the pdf?

That is how Open Text works with registrations on a PSR, Tyros.

So, really saving by registrations on a Yamaha is the same basic thing as using the songbook on the Korg, along with automatically pulling up a pdf. I just wanted to point this out because all the Korg people say how this is one up on Yamaha when in my mind it's not.

I am wondering now if this Unreal Book app would work then on a Yamaha in that the Open Text program brings up the pdf using midi info also.

Thank you for getting this info out. It was a surprize to me.

http://psrtutorial.com/MB/opentext.html

Dennis,

Thank you a picture is worth a thousand words. That video puts it all in perspective very cool feature.
Since I use unreal book regularly that system should work well.

Yes Scott, I have tried that on the T4 I had for a while...nowhere near as flexible, or quick imo....it was not as intuitive, as easy, flexible or quick as using a dedicated chart organising app as UB....and it required more pre-configuring as well...

Overall I found it was WAY more clunky on the T4 and nowhere near as quick and easy...Also really difficult to run on a setlist (playlist) basis...

I know this works REALLY well for me is rock solid and requires very VERY little preparation, especially with the PAsCo app....I can have a chart linked and ready to go in about 30 seconds!!

And I get 10 hours use on battery from the iPad With careful use...ie putting the iPad ionto standby between sets, or when not needed, I can get just on three gigs (my gigs are 3-4 hours)from one full battery charge.

My UB list is at about 600 songs, so I have a LONG way to go to reach 9,999

Dennis

Hi Dennis

No, I didn't intend that one is better than the other, just that the same basic idea can be accomplished on both. I could have worded that a little better I think. I'm actually considering adding a Korg to my T4.haha

It's good to hear your comparison between the Tyros and Korg. For me, rather than play by a set list, I like to have songs in categories so if I think of a song I can go directly to that genre foler. Or, if I want to play a Latin I go to that folder and pick the one that strikes me at the moment. I'm pretty much an on the fly kind of player.

Anyway, this is great info to get out there because I think most players didn't realize it existed. That was also my intention of letting Yamaha people know they could do something along the lines you're talking about.

I have emailed Michael Bedesem, the creator of Open Text to see if he thinks the Unreal Book app would work on a Yamaha.

Cool Scott, I just re-did the post to reflect that...I thought afterwards that is not really your "go" Your post beat my edit!!!

I have different genres too, if you watch the vid closely, you can see I have quite a few pre-set genres on the list (it appears briefly so you need to be quick to catch it)...So I have a full song file listing, a genre listing, AND my set lists..

But really, I could even sub categorize those even further into temps as well...slow bossa , or slow pop, fast rock and even have them set up with tempo ranges as well...

Oh btw I can tell you now that UB will not work with a Yammie I tried already I had several emails with Michael at the time....they Yammie can ONLY go one way...it is also only an Apple app, as the developer is 100% adamant hi is NOT porting it to anything else....

Dennis

I am not familiar with Ipad -- Is this system available for a Laptop?

John C.

I had emailed Michael Bedesem about using a PSR or Tyros registration to open a pdf on and ipad using the Unreal Book. Here is his answer. Can anyone add more info on this.

He also suggested "Google “ sending midi to Ipad “ , without quotes." As a novice, I will probably not understand what I would be reading. If anyone could help on this I'd sure appreciated it.

"

If what you are asking is: could the PSR send a midi to the Ipad, which in turn brings up a pdf? That is, the PSR is still the initiator.



The Ipad would have to accept midi, and the program that processed it would have to be able to open a pdf reader (or a text program ) with the file loaded.



I have seen some web statements about non-WiFi midi input (“Users can also connect the iO Dock to their Mac or PC using the USB port to send MIDI back and forth for creative, new applications of the iPad ..).



I do not know about the pdf, but I think l opening a text window or passing a filename to a text reader would be possible.



So, given that the midi connection is viable, yes, it seems possible.



Regards,



Michael"

Scott, sending midi to the ipad is not a problem...it is having an app that will open a PDF or text file in RESPONSE to a midi command is the issue....

Also, text based charts are VERY restrictive in that all you can really get is a chord structure and lyrics...you cannot get proper charts as in with dots and notation in a text based document.

Far better to use the PDF format which does all!!!

The PDF app that Michael uses to link OpenText, does not actually respond to a MIDI message, it is OpenText which receives the midi from the Yamaha, and it then sends a command - not midi- to the PDF reader to open the next PDF in the list...(maybe a Windows batch file command? I am not really sure how he set it up)

@ John C....you can use this same system on a laptop, using an app called Music Reader as it also allows you to link a MIDI file to a chart, and then transmit it to the Korg...BUT in my view Music Reader, although being in an advanced version stage, is still NOTHING on the apps available for the iPad.

Not to mention the ease of use and crystal clarity of the iPad screen resolution...even better now with the inclusion of Retina on iPad 3....

Dennis

Just to add, I DID ask Michael all these questions back then, and his reply was that it was not possible in the way I wanted it to run....

IE using the Chart to select the appropo setup on the Korg..which to me IS the more efficient and better way to run it....

Extremely interesting...Michael would be the one to know since he worked out the issues of sending the appropriate SYSEx messages from his Music Finder View to a PSR/Tyros from a PC with the appropriate settings (Style, Tempo, variation etc) which I worked with him closely. Since MFDB was not accessible to blind users on these boards, we needed a way to view, find and control the PSR/Tyros boards using MFDB from an alternative connected device.

This actually may be the answer for us on the Korg now but it does require a full SongBook setup but I know SongBook Editor is accessible to us. Looks like another session wit Michael on this to get more info.

Thanks,

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for producing that informative demo. As an iPad owner (my new 3rd gen model arrives tomorrow 3/16), and who owns the UnRealBook app too,
I now can clearly see the big advantage of being able to simply select a given song in UnRealBook and have it then automatically call up the given song's Pa keyboard's Songbook settings.
Yet another good reason to get a Korg Pa3X.
Thanks.
- Scott

Thanks Scott Yes it certainly is a great and easy system for live work!!

Being essentially lazy, I did not want to bother trying to run setlists and stuff from TWO devices, so I made the decision to run it all from the iPad.

So in effect the iPad becomes the stage controller, while the PA is the hardware device being used to produce the music!

The pa does have a limited (VERY!!) text based chart function, but for an real-world use one needs to use an external monitor, so I figured if I have to use a monitor why not, go the whole way with the iPad and get the huge advantage of full charts!!!

It is also fully compatible with the Airturn Bluetooth pedal, as there are a couple of charts I use that are multi page...more the classical side of things, Adagio for Strings, Beethoven and Bach pieces I like to play around with.

So the pedal is very handy for those!!!

As we have discussed before, until Yamaha include the VERY SIMPLE OS coding to link the registrations with a Music Finder listing, Yamaha owners will be the poor second cousins when it comes to chart reading functionality.

Of course NOT a problem if you have a really good memory system....

Ever since I started studying music (8yo) I have had major issues remembering music, even stuff I have practised for weeks... I really envy those guys who can pull a tune out of their head they maybe have not played for months, and play it flawlessly!!!!

This is why such a good system as this (PA+iPad) is vital for me...and saves HOURS of work manually transcribing charts down to a single page or less!!!! Not to mention less clutter on stage...

Dennis

Dennis

Just wondering how you handle songs you don't need music. Do you have it listed in the ipad or do you then go to your keyboard to pick out the song? If you use the ipad do you used a dummy lead sheet or????

Scott...Yes that is how I do it...either just an empty PDF with just the song name, or maybe some notes about the song...

I would like to try out a PA3X to see if it will do what I want. Same for the ipad. Just don't know if I could adjust to a screen that small in portrait.

Scott,

Just finished setting up a few test files using the PaSCo midi tool. What surprised me is it's pretty simple operation to setup, it takes a bit of time. Thanks to Dennis for taking the time to video and the write up he did at the Korg forum.

iPad and Songbook Korg Forum

Not sure I want to convert hundreds of tunes stored in unReal book but it's worth setting up the top 50 or 100 that I play.

Hi Steve

thanx for the info/

Hi Steve

Why not all? Is it time consuming, or?

It is time consuming I would have to rename all my Fake sheets to let's say Blue Bayou to Blue Bayou 110, Fly me to the Moon to Fly me to the Moon 111, etc ( or whatever number I choose to follow the name of the tune) Also on the actual page in unreal book I would have to make a note of what number I have the tune named as. I also have to prepare a midi file to match.

It's really not rocket science,just a very mundane process. I suppose though it's a lot easier than what I had to do with the Music Pad Pro years ago and that was to scan page by page many individual sheets. Dennis suggested in another thread about 10 per night, I agree that would be the best way to do so.

Err Stephen why do you need to rename them with a number???

None of mine have numbers...I ONLY annotate the Korg PA Songbook listing number on the UB PDF file for reference, it is TOTALLY unnecessary as it runs ONLY on the file name...

So if using UB and iPad, "print" the .doc file to a pdf, create the control midi with whatever name the .doc file is, place both in the UB directory on the iPad...thats it!!

Personally I do not see that as too time consuming...at a guess the "printing" (remember there is NO scanning involved at all) takes about 3 seconds a file, the midi probably about 6 seconds, and then the transfer about 3 seconds....total about 20 seconds per file including sips of coffee

Dennis

Dennis,
I like the part about 20 seconds with sips of coffee. Starbucks bold no cream no sugar for me


I was of the understanding that you had to put both name and number exactly in the pdf as it appears. well that's a relief that will save some time. I also understood that the title should match exactly is that correct? In other words Bad Bad Leroy Brown could named "Bad Leroy" ( minus quotes) as a pdf, but when saved in Songbook it should also be called "Bad Leroy". Some of my issue is when I saved entries to songbook I did not enter a number for them. So I do need to go back using Songbook editor to enter a number.

Hi Stephen, the only criterium is that the name be exactly the same.

So your example is correct...the name of the PDF = Bad Leroy....name of the PAsCO midi control file = Bad Leroy (case is important as well)

As for the numbering in the songbook, you mean in the Korg PA Songbook?...Yes that is required too, and I would do it using the Korg PC Songbook Editor - I think it is available for MAC too...Will be far FAR quicker to simply edit the number field in it, than using the Songbook saving pages on the PA itself. The simply re-import the Songbook file back into the PA....

Dennis

Just as a by the way...and you probably already know this, but in the drop down menu (top right hand corner little arrow) it gives you the option to list the songbook numbers, and not the key on the songbook listing...not that this is needed for the following procedure, but I thought I would mention it.

If you double press the Songbook physical button on the panel, it opens a numerical entry box, and you can manually select the songbook entry number "on the fly" as it were...

This is the main reason I annotate the songbook listing number on the UnrealBook PDF chart....if at any time I cannot get a connection from the iPad to the PA (I have accidentally let the battery run down before a gig so need to recharge and use at the same time, or I forget a cable, or whatever), by double pressing the songbook button, and then entering manually the SB listing number as shown on the PDF, I can almost as quickly select a song on the PA...

Just another way of doing it is all

Dennis

Dennis,

Thanks for the clarification and also the hints on the use of the number system!