Hi all,

I am Interested in looking at the BK5 as a light-weight easy-to-take around Arranger.

I used to own a Roland GW-8 and wasnt very impressed with the acoustic sounds such as brass / sax / acoustic Guitar.

what sound engine does the BK5 use?? is it the actual E80 sound engine or is the the Roland Fantom G engine like the GW8??

Also - the fact that it is compatible with G70, E80 and other ROland keyboard style files - does this mean it is seamless playback? or do they need to be extensively modified?

Does the BK5 have the guitar mode or strumming guitars with fret slides / body taps etc that the G70 and E80 has?

does the BK 5 have the same keybed as any other Roland Keyboards / synths??

how easy is it to mute and un mute style parts in realtime while playing and controlling a style with the left hand?

What kind of sound editing level does it have?

Can drum kits be edited / customised?

Thanks!!

Nick

Nick I had the BK7-M and a GW8 and the bass sounds are about the same. Average to bad. Same with the guitars, especially electrics.

The BK's are supposedly loosely based on the Fantom (although much smaller and compressed ROM samples)) and the GW7 based on the Sonic Cell, again with a smaller size sample ROM. And no expansion card option.

Doesn't really matter as I remember a LOT of the same sounds on the SC88-Pro ...actually some as I recall, sounded better on the SC88.

FWIW if the sound engine doesn't cut it for me then I usually do not bother with the rest...

With the PA3 I have now accepted compromise. Not as good as the Yamaha Motif XF when it comes to B+B (not even the Kronos can match the Motif's on that score)...but way better than anything on a Roland, and apart from S.A. the Yamaha too.

The module was a real p.i.t.a. for any sort of real time mixing control, ore any control for that matter dunno about the keyboard version....

As for the other questions, no exp with doing that so no comment...

jm2c

Dennis

Thanks Dennis,

I too own a PA 3X and I'm absolutely loving it! I have never once missed or looked back at the Tyros 4 that I owned for a short while
I am also very excited about the new OS update which is due very soon now too gotta love the Korg "free" stuff - interested to see what kind of sounds / styles and features they add!

The BK5 seems very appealing to me because it is so light, cheap and just a different flavour to the korg. I like alternating between keyboards depending on my mood of the month lol.

thanks for your input - i was never satisfied with the GW-8 or Fantom G but hoping the BK5 lives up to what i have been reading on various forums the passed few days.

Cheers!
Nick

cool...remember though m8, I daresay no-one (or very few at any rate) here has experienced the Motif XS/XF sound engine as we have...

Once bitten by those sounds it is tough to use anything else. But yeah the PA3 goes close

Dennis - buy a MOX6
I did - they are CHEAP.

IT has the EXACT same sounds / arps and editing features and performance play back as the Motif XS.

AND...

Dedciated Octave / Transpose / Layer Buttons that Motif XS and XF do not have

What are the keys like?

very close to Motif and Tyros. surprisingly good.

Quieter and smoother than Roland Juno keys

FAR better than PSR keys

Better than PA 800 keys

Cool thanks Nick I might investigate further....

Only half the polyphony, tho... 64 voices might not cut it for some of those nice groove/arp presets and play a bunch live on the top...

Yeah I did see that Diki...and I agree it does make a difference, especially with the 8 element voices.

I did some checking around and they are still not cheap enough to add to the PA3....but as I said the PA has been working out okay as a really good compromise since I have come to terms with the fact that the two WS's I like - Kronos and Motif XF, will never come with an arranger engine...

Dennis

Dennis have u seen the Karma 3.0 video on motifator.com with the Motif XS/XF??? MUCH MUCH closer to arranger functionality now.

by the way - i have already produced some very detailed trance tracks with multiple arps and drum samples overlapping and have never once noticed any drop in Poly.

The 8 element voices has almost nothing to do with Poly unless u are playing organ voices. almost every other voice which may or may not have up to the full 8 elements dont actually trigger 8 notes in the one hit. they are all velocity or assignable button activated.

Hey Nick, yeah BUT the biggest drawback for Karma is you MUST have a Laptop/PC on stage for it to run...
All the midi is generated from the PC and only uses the XS/XF for the sound engine....

I am still living in hope that SK (Stephen Kay) can finally talk Korg Italy into allowing him to develop for the PA platform!!!

He has been trying for about 4 years that I know of

As for the 8 elements, yes you are 100% correct...but call it a throw-back to the days of note dropping beasties without today's note allocation algorithms, I still feel way WAY more comfortable with 128...

Dennis

Why does he need permission? Surely it's just a MIDI app?

I guess you mean Karma in the PA itself. But a laptop or iPad app to do it via MIDI would be close to as useful, and he wouldn't have to go cap in hand like Oliver Twist to those nitwits in Italy!

I dunno Diki, all I know is what SK has told me. I do know that Korg Italy will not release ANY sysex data to anyone...been that way for years. It's why we cannot get a PC editor developed by a 3rd party as the sysex is needed.

So I suspect that is the drawback...Plus, having it run native on the keyboard is far better, imo, than the cobbled approach of the Yamaha format...

But surely, anyone using a sequencer has all the data hooks into the voice that a regular Triton has (is that the voice architecture of the PA3X voice?), and all Karma is doing is playing note and controller streams into the regular synth voice?

There are PC# codes for changing Performances, so changing insert effect routing and types shouldn't be impossible (although the sound glitch while it does it is always a concern), other than that, it is simply calling up a sound, and perhaps modulating voice parameters like decays, cutoff sweeps, stuff like that. Those are simply CC# data, right?

I don't honestly see what it needs sys-ex for...

I understand you would need it for a full editor, but that's not what Karma is...

To be honest, I think I prefer the laptop approach to a built in one. For starters, it would allow the developer to update and bugfix the Karma section MUCH faster than leaving it to Korg (look how long it is taking to get the PA3's issues sorted) and allow him to improve and add capabilities without going through Korg's beta system.

Plus, you have the opportunity with a laptop system of using Karma over a larger rig. Imagine some of the Karma Parts going into the Korg, and others going into a Yamaha module or keyboard, and others yet off to a Kronos... Not so easy to do that from the keyboard.

Yes, in a perfect world, it would be built into the PA3X, but in a PRACTICAL world, better it in a computer (and add to its flexibility) than not exist at all!

Diki, m8 I agree with you (apart from the separate pc), but apparently sysex with the PA3 IS an issue. And K.I. simply won't see, or refuse to see the HUGE benefit of Karma, or allow their OS to be used...

I would not be surprised to see the Yamaha arrangers the first to gain from Karma tech though...although maybe Yamaha woulod not want to drag WS customers away...

Who knows HOW these corporate bods think hey

The thing is, sys-ex is usually the kiss of death to a good tight groove. Are you sure that Karma really needs to send it?

What, off the top of your head, do you think Karma does that would need it? As I mentioned, the Korg can change Performances with simple PC# and CC#'s, so what else would it need it for?

Not trying to be awkward, just trying to get a handle on the whole thing.

Has Jay made any mention of a Karma iPad app? I would think, with the tactile surface, that is crying out for being used...

Diki, the sysex is needed so the Karma controls can be mapped to the hardware/software touch buttons and controllers...

Similar in the way, to the fact that functions you can do with the EC-5 are NOT available for a standard midi controller...there are quite a few operations and functions that do NOT have any CC control available...

If it were all simply down to CC's SK probably would have done it at the PA1 stage...we would also probably by now, have a PC editor as well...something that has been asked for time and again of Korg Italy, who seem to be most reticent in providing this data for 3rd party programmers!! Luckily the same can not be said for Korg USA who realise the importance of PC/Mac editor software.

These keyboards today really NEED companion editing software in my view...

Imagine if Korg had released this data, and Korg arrangers had someone like Jos, or Michael Bedesem writing software for it...

Dennis

If it just the front panel buttons, well, firstly, with a laptop or iPad version, you wouldn't be using those buttons! And a Korg Nano button and knob USB controller could add them where you could easily get them.

But more confusingly, if the knobs and buttons DO send sys-ex, surely it is a simple job to record each button press into a sequencer, and look at it?

More and more, it looks like a laptop approach, like Kay has done for Yamaha, is by far the best practical solution.

I must admit, given how enthusiastic you seem to be for iPad usage onstage for lyrics, mixing and other things, that iPad or a tablet PC usage for adding Karma seems to be such a turnoff...

Diki, it is totally different and who said I use the iPad for anything but charts..I certainly didn't.

As I have said before, adding the laptop to control Karma, on top of an iPad on top of a keyboard is just way too much..okay for someone like you who has another person who can carry stuff whilst you are fiddling....

SK had to do some pretty creative mapping to get the Karma controls allocated to the Yamaha buttons. But on the Korg (or any arranger really) they are all there ready to use in a very logical thought out way.

And controllers are only good for CC commands, NOT sysex..the only one I am aware of that allows programming

Why do you always insist on trying to being so obtuse!!! Were you born that way or did you have to study for it

How LONG have you been around midi????? A simple job of mapping sysex??? Give over m8!!!! Do you realise just how many sysex commands are needed for some of the higher functions? Check out a sysex data sheet (NOT the midi implementation page) for your G70, and even that pales into insignificance when compared to a Motif XF or Kronos.

And I have not read closely the Korg copyright data, so maybe there is even some stuff there as well!! It is a different company to Korg USA you know.

Anyhoo, I think you are merely trying for arguing for arguings sake, so I am going to leave it there....

Dennis, once again you completely misinterpret what I'm saying. Take a long look in the mirror my friend.

Yes, having Karma run from the keyboard's own buttons is optimal. But that is an apparent no-go. All I'm saying is, if the choice is between a laptop and a controller surface, and no Karma AT ALL, surely you can see the point of a laptop?

Personally, whether a soloist or in an ensemble, the capabilities that Karma adds (jeez! you bought a $3000+ keyboard to get it!) ought to outweigh setting up a few more bits of kit?

Maybe not? Not exactly a ringing endorsement...