I installed these on my Yamaha MoXF flash board. 400 Megabytes just for a few string samples - and you hear it. These are the highest quality strings I have had on a hardware instrument so far. A few bars of Bach's "Jesus bleibe meine Freude". (The trumpet is not ideal, it is from the Garritan GPO Lite library. But the harpsichord is very good, also from the Garritan GPO).

https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/dsf-sy...e-freude-jsbach

rosetree,
Great strings..I would love to here this with French Horn or even English Horn instead of the trumpets.
Lee

I'll redo it with an Integra classical trumpet or Flugelhorn. French Horn is not typical for this composition, so I won 't take it. English horn is a woodwind instrument like oboe, would be unusual too. But this trumpet, although it is not a bad trumpet sample, is a bit too acute for the tune, with the Integra options it will be more suitable.

Nice one, sounds really good..

Which makes me wonder again, why would anyone want to buy a Motif if they can get an MOxF for under €1000?


And another sad thing, why cant we run these Moitf libraries on our Tyros 5?

Exceptionally good strings, Rosetree, but, again, I must reinforce the fact that it's your playing skills that bring out the realism. Knowing how to phrase properly and play within the range of a string orchestra makes all the difference, in my opinion, and you have it down very well, indeed.

Ian

Thank you. I agree phrasing is quite important, and I think I learned it in my church organ lessons besides developing a feeling for the instrument you are emulating (in this regard I'm better in brass as I used to play the trombone), but on the other hand the sample has to be really good, too, you can't turn a bad strings sample into a realistic one by the way of playing.
Regarding Tyros, I heard you could import such a library into the Tyros flash by multiple painstaking steps through the voice editor via computer, but not virtually out of the box like you can with the Motif/MoXF. (With the MoXF I had to process it through the J.Melas waveform editor, but that was a simple .x0 import and .x3 export.)

The strings are even more realistic now: this time I chose the small ensemble samples consisting of only 5 violins/violas instead of 15/10. The trumpet is from the Roland Integra now, the Expansion SuperNatural Classical trumpet with increased cutoff so that it is particularly soft.

https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/demo-2...-a-trumpet-bach

Well done, Rosetree. I love Bach and I love listening to talented musicians like you playing Bach on keyboards. More, please!

Thank you. The strings are so realistic now, I fear the Integra trumpet is beginning to sound slightly synthetic in the direct comparison :0

However, judge for yourself, IMO these Roland SRX 04 strings from my Integra are also quite top notch, nearly comparable to the DSF ones, even if their sample size is much smaller, which causes shorter loops:

http://youtu.be/J0kCNVzCIqs

I love the trumpet in your last example, Rosetree...just enough warmth, yet bright enough to stand out from those powerful strings.

I think the Integra Trumpet is excellent...mellow and soothing, but still broad and harmonically rich.

Ian

I just heard your SRX-04 video on YouTube again, and they do sound good, Rosetree.

How would you rank the quality of the strings you have so far? DSF first, followed by SRX-04 second, and then Garritan?

How about the SuperNatural strings in the Integra-7?

Lastly, what about orchestral sounds besides strings?: Brass woodwinds, etc. Which keyboard/module or expansion would you say is best?

Thanks for your consideration.

Yes, I would rate the DSF strings first and the Roland SRX 04 second, maybe on a par with Garritan GPO Lite, depending on which samples in detail you need. The DSF provide more small and medium sections, while the SRX 04 also have samples of a big ensemble (which I used in my Adagio for Strings 'vast strings' version). Garritan has good solo strings (however with strong sampled vibrato, a matter of taste) and only one rather big section sample, which is partly very realistic, but odd in some low ranges and with a vibrato I don't like too much in the high range. So that's a matter of taste, too.
I wouldn't rate the Integra SuperNatural strings too high. Newer doesn't always mean better. The SN-A sections are good, but a bit 'nasal', to me they are not better than the SRX 04, except the marcato version is good and quite realistic for fast movements. The SuperNatural solo strings are not ideal, I like the cello, but I haven't achieved realistic results forming a small ensemble with them yet. They don't have a sampled vibrato, so either you have a slightly artificial sounding vibrato, or none at all, which sounds a bit odd for solo strings, too. I did Bach's Air with a combination of SRX 04 and SN-A solo strings and deleted it from Youtube again, because the 'only SRX 04' version sounded more realistic.
Listen to this official Roland demo of the SN-A violin - the attack is great, but the long tones with vibrato - IMO not realistic:
https://soundcloud.com/rolandcom/sna0189?in=rolandcom/sets/201208-snat

That's all subjectiv of course. I'll come back to the other orchestral sounds later.

Hi rosetree, I see you have the MOXF6 - by chance, have you played the MOXF8? I am wondering what the keybed is like on the 88 key version?

No, sorry, I haven't tested it. I always minimize weight so I generally don't consider weighted keybeds.

In general i find Yamaha weighted hammer keybeds fall short compared to the likes of Kawaii, Roland and even some Casio instruments

I liked the action on my S90es, but i didnt like the action on the CVP609 and this MOXF8 that i tried last week... Both keybeds felt really mechanical

I didn't quite care for Yamaha's recent weighted hammer actions, even on the CVP-609. I did get a quick go at a Yamaha CP-4 Stage Piano and liked it very much, so I believe it must be slightly different than on the CVP.

The past few years we've been using the el cheapo Yamaha P-85, and now the P-95, as controllers in the studio, mainly for the Tyros4. I have to say, I actually like their weighted hammer actions better than the higher priced instruments (the entry level P series do not have wooden keys) and think they are a great bang-for-the-buck if you want an inexpensive great feeling basic midi controller (no pitch bend, mod wheels or aftertouch), that's also lightweight and has a very decent built in piano sound.

Ian

Thanks folks. Yeah, even though I haven't played it myself I have a gut feeling the action on the MOXF8 would be average at best.

As I've mentioned in the dedicated thread I started, the keybed on the Casio Privia PX5S, that I just purchased last week for £660, is superb. Very nice piano etc., too.

You need to try it for yourself... in the end noboddy can know what kind of feel you like and whats acceptable for your standards..

Thanks very much, Rosetree, for that very detailed explanation and rating! Unfortunately, those who sell these expansions don't always include demoes, and their descriptions are often not very specific as to what you'll get. This hands-on review is just what I was looking for.

Unfortunately I can't get trying it at the minute. I asked on here but I have read plenty of other opinions too. Pretty much unanimous too that the PX5S has a superior keybed. I'm sure the MOXF8 has a decent keybed and a lovely workstation, especially for the money, but I was just wondering what other users thought. I have the MOX6 and that'll do for the time being in conjunction with the PX5S for my live band rig......and the PX5S will also be fine for my home studio work, mainly using VSTs.

I forgot to warn you, should anyone have a MoXF and think about buying the DSF string library: Don't buy it on motifator.com! They charge twice as much as if you buy from DSF directly (at least it was like that some months ago)!

Thanks, that would be a gigantic price difference...
But in general its allways good to compare prices

Hi Rosetree, I was just wondering if you have a favorite for best orchestral brass, woodwinds and choir (Garritan or some other sound library for the Yamaha Motif XF, or perhaps the Integra-7 or other gear). Thanks in advance.

Hi Mike, for orchestral brass, I rate the Roland SRX 10 best so far. It has a C-trumpet section that sounds 100% real. The trombones are realistic, too, only a bit low-volume and soft, which you can compensate by leveling the other sounds. The French horns are very realistic, too, as are the beautiful muted trumpet and trombone sections.
Official demo:
https://soundcloud.com/rolandcom/srx-10-...-brass-ensemble

In my opinion, some of the Korg M3 brass expansion sounds were equally realistic, the French horns even a bit more dynamic. (However, there were a few so-so trumpet sections in it, too, the bigband sections were not so good).
https://soundcloud.com/korg/s008-f-horn-heroics-ex1?in=korg/sets/m3-xpanded-demos
Garritan has a very good classical solo trumpet (recently praised by a pro trumpet player in my Youtube videos) and some good sections, but I didn't like them as much as the SRX10.
IMO some of the preset Yamaha Motif XS/XF/MoXF brass sections are really good, too (e.g. medium brass section), but in the direct comparison they can't beat the SRX10 C-trumpets.
So, for brass maybe:
1. Roland SRX 10
2. Korg M3 brass expansion (Kronos will be at least as good)
3. Garritan GPO Lite / Yamaha Motif XF presets

For classical woodwinds (Clarinet, Oboe, Flute, English Horn), I like the Garritan woodwinds a lot, but I was even more fascinated by the Korg M3 woodwinds expansion. I rate the Motif preset woodwinds quite good, but not top. The Integra SuperNatural woodwinds are very good except if you use vibrato, which is again not sampled, but artificially created. The Integra's PCM woodwinds (especially SRX06) are good, but their age and limited wave data doesn't allow real highlights.
So in summary for woodwinds (except sax):
1. Korg M3 woodwind expansion
2. Garritan GPO Lite
3. Integra SN-A woodwinds + SRX06 woodwinds combined
4. Yamaha Motif XF/MoXF

Regarding choirs, I don't use them much in the MoXF, and I am very happy with the excellent, even if old, choirs of the Roland SRX06, and also the SuperNatural choirs of the Integra.

Everything subjective of course! Hope it helps.

If you want the best orchestral sounds

https://vsl.co.at/en or
http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/

A number of VSL samples are also incorporated in NI Kontakt 5 & Komplete 10

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-10/

Enjoy

Bill

Hi Rosetree,

I just came in from shoveling lots of snow (in -30 temperature with wind), and as I usually do, I check Synthzone before doing anything else, and was very happy to see your detailed answer! I wrote down on paper all your answers for future reference (when it comes time to buy more gear and sound libraries).

I highly value your opinion, because you know from first-hand experience how all this gear sounds, and also because I like the same type of music (baroque) and am interested in the same sounds you are.Thank you for taking the time to answer in such a precise and methodical way. I haven't been able to find too many others who love to play Baroque and Classical music using electronic instruments, so I always look forward to hearing new pieces from you.

From all the online demos I've heard so far, I agree with your
conclusions. Now, I need to figure out if the Kurzweil Pc3 series of keyboards are even better than the above.

Thanks again for all your help!

Mike

Thanks for the links! These VSTs do indeed sound great, but I will stick with hardware. I don't want to get into computers....I'm extremely non-tech savvy.

I have both the PX5S and the MOXF8 and I find the keyboard on both instruments to be good. I would rate the PX5S keybed as a little better, but I am perfectly happy with MOXF8. Plus you get so much for your money with the MOXF. Compared to all the old spinets that I have played in my life, most all high end keyboards do well in the keybed area. Just my opinion.