OK, So I have been spending time with the SX900.
When I change to a different style part (A-B ect) AND I hold the RH not(s) I get a bad change over to the new sound right away. In other words the SX does NOT wait until I release all RH notes before changing sounds. Sometimes it results in a very bad sound and not even the next OTS , just a loud sounds of the one I was on.

I have looked in the menu system for an option on this and didn't find one....that is to wait until ALL RH notes are released before changinging the sounds.

This can't be right...how would you hold a not that is TIED into the next measure , but change the rhythm on the downbeat??

This is pretty basic....
Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Lee can you record and post this problem
so we can hear what are talking about?

You just go pick a style...start at VAR A, play some RH notes AND HOLD THEM....then push VAR B then C then D....of course OTS link has to be on.

You will hear the issue.
Also, I will try to record a sample of the issue.....

I just got 2 answers on PST Tutorial. I AM NOT happy....so thia is normal and that means you cannot hold notes into the next measure and change the VAR ON the downbeat?? I don't remember this being this way on my PA2XPRO??

Hi Lee,
Just checked mine, with broadway ballad.
I held clarinet single finger, thru all 4 variations. Didn’t change till I lifted finger and played note again. Same cycling thru registrations.

Same holding a right hand chord. Sounds didn’t change. But if I held chord and replayed a single note while holding that right hand chord, the sound did change.

Hi Lee,
are the members who answered sx owners?

Rikki, Use the standard Yamaha OTS where the sounds are different for each OTS, Please...

Yes, I asked the Q on the SX thread...they said Yamaha has has a problem with this for years and it is the way it is...I hope they misunderstood and thats not true.

Hi Lee,
unless I'm misunderstanding.

I lowered accomp. right down so you can hear clarinet doesn't change thru variations.

the last loud sound you hear is in vari 4 after I replay a note. OTS fo vari 4 kicks in. It is far louder, but that's the way the sounds for that ots are set up.

Don't know if you've noticed but the variations get busier and louder 1 to 4. so do the sounds for ots.

If you go to mixer panel while pressing the variations you'll see the volumes changing.

Hi Lee,
different sounds. still kept style sound low.

OK thanks waiting to hear it..

Rikki,
Try a style that has much different sounds on each OTS.
Hold down say a G chord in RH...start the style, use Var A, then B, Then C, then D the sound changes as soon as you activate the new OTS. SO, If you want to hold a note that has a Tie in the music from one measure to the next..you can't as the OTS will change when you change Variation. IF you try to hold the note bad things happen...abrupt off/on of the sounds in RH.

However if you do not use OTS link, Hit the new VAR at the measure change.... and you hit the new OTS when you take your hands up (anytime you want), then play the next note its OK.

So the issue is with OTS link function timing....

Is this problem a deal breaker?

Hi Lee,
How about switching OTS manually for those song where you need to hold RH.
That means turning off the OTS link.
It takes only a second and might be an acceptable work around.
Eric

++

Yes, I see that that can work...I tested it here and then you have control on when it switches to the new OTS...instead of having the style element change do it. Looks like you do have to be careful that the sound has stopped completely before hitting the OTS button (1-4). Using Registrations I think will also work...but I have to play with that a little to be sure.
It's been a long time since I had the PA2XPRO, was the issue the same with Korg (Pa4X, now)?

Hi Lee,
basically still not getting the same thing as you.

Had something weird happen in sky pop, but that has weird sounds to start with.

Do registrations do the same thing?

Or this can be a positive, which I think it is. I’ve heard complaints about pressing the Vari with OTS on and have the note change to late, or to soon, I am not sure which.

If I am playing run, a music thought, I would want the instrument on even though I went up to the next Vari.

That is if I understood the problem correctly.
John C.

Hearing the problem speaks volumes..?

The issue is that if you use OTS link, when you change the Variation (A-D) the RH sounds change immediately and if you are HOLDING RH notes during that...oops it messes up your performance. (That is assuming the RH voice you are playing DOES change with the OTS) IF you do not use OTS link OR if you use registrations THEN you have full control as to when the sounds in the RH change. Then they change when you press the OTS or the Reg.

Lee, this happens when the right and notes in the last measure are tied into the next measure. Have I got that right?

Opinion only: There are times when notes are tied together from measure to measure ending a thought – and the vari should be pressed for the next measure, not interfering with the music thought. Maybe a break or a fill might fit better.

Don’t take this as Gospel, I’m just guessing.
John C.

PS, Doony is right, gotta hear it played to understand.

John, interesting idea....I was trying to change the sounds at the measure break, BUT because the music has a ties from last measure to the new one that's when I get the bad surprises.

It only happens if you let the OTS link handle the OTS change, not if you do it yourself (would rather let the OTS link do it, but not going to happen unless I go in and do DSP setup programming to make the DSP match on the 2 sounds). It's workable...in fact I may not use the OTS link at all so things are consistent... I can use OTS or registrations instead.

The key here is: you have to have your R hand OFF the keys when you make a Var change using either OTS link or even if using OTS or REG. buttons by themselves.

I used to use registrations on my old Yamaha HS8T organ (was that cool the buttons were in between the upper/lower keyboards)

@leeboy

No matter how hard you try: switching voices with different DSPs on the same part (= midi channel) is always asking for trouble on ANY Yamaha arranger. Genos included.

The sound generator will "immediately" apply the new DSP processing to the audio coming out from that channel.

Even if you released the keys before switching the voice (manually, via OTS, via Registration, it does not matter) the decaying part of the dying notes will still produce a sound that will be picked up by the new DSP, even if you do not play any new note.

If the new DSP is set to amplify enough the signal or apply feedback (i.e.: Guitar stomp box with distortion. compressor, delay) you end up with nasty and unwanted noises.

It is a lost cause. There is nothing you can do, except to blame Yamaha.

To add insult to injury, many DSP effects are applied with a small (but noticeable, probably in the 100ms range) delay. This means that if you change the DSP and then immediately play a note, the new note attack is cut until the DSP effect catches up (probably an internal delay line whose buffer must be filled before something can come out from the effect).

This is super annoying too. Although less noticeable because most people do NOT play a note immediately after switching the DSP.

* * *

If you want to ELIMINATE the problem once for all and be free to play and switch OTS when you like, glitch free, you should try our software Groovyband Live!. There is a free demo. It perfectly complements your hardware because it is designed to work with Yamaha arrangers.

In addition you can stack 2 insert DSPs per part, and use all the DSPs you have in whatever part you wish. And enjoy literally hundreds of other advanced features your Yamaha firmware simply does not give you.

To learn more you can check our website or also read a few threads on this forum (only a few days old, just scroll down a page or two in the recent threads list, or use the search function). The software comes with 860 high quality styles, you can listen to some of them both on our website and in files attached to those posts by some of our users. They modded some of them with outstanding results and also unprecedented ease (their words, not ours).

If this is all true...how can so many be using the Yamaha arranger at home and professionally?

I have seen lots of playing , changing OTS etc using standard factory styles/OTS and/or registrations with very nice results....if it is that bad no one would ever buy one...

I don't see a name for you in your profile?

Also, I am not under any conditions going down the SW arranger path again. I do not want to do any programming. Especially anything as deep as DSP. I bought the Yamaha for content, available styles and quality voices. AND supposedly smooth style engine.

THIS TIME I am going to concentrate on learning music better and perfecting my playing.

If the SX-900 will not give me smooth transitions to different sounds I will can it, and get something that will.

Thanks,

Lee sorry it didn't work out for you at least
you gave it a shot, I'm sure there is a good return policy...
good luck on your next musical venture...
but I sure wish you would record the problem
so we can hear what you actually mean..?
I for one am still confused to your musical direction and needs>>>

Maybe the new Roland Fantom is the way to go..?
at 14:10 he discusses using patterns which is a
very kool way to create music...

Lee, for me, this has never been a problem because I always used my right hand to switch voices, therefore, I had to lift my hands off the keys in order to select the next voice. The transitional problem has existed since the PSR-2000 came out so many, many years ago and has never been addressed, though there have been several posts about the problem on many forums that Yamaha monitors. Not sure why they never bothered to tackle the problem, though.

I purchased the PSR-500 and PSR-5700 many, many years ago and used them double stacked on a monster stand that DonM still uses today. What enticed me to Yamaha was the styles and right hand sounds. I have also owned a Korg M1, Roland 800, and a few other brands, but always came back to Yamaha for those wonderful styles and sounds.

None of the operating systems thrilled me, but over the years, I dedicated a lot of time to learning every aspect of Yamaha's OS so I could better utilize the many features available for live performers.

Good luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary

Hi Lee,
If sx doesn’t end up suiting your style of playing, probably lucky you didn’t hang out for the Genos, probably wouldn’t have suited either.

I mainly use piano for r/h sound so still haven’t come across the problem which obviously does exist. Wasn’t aware of it though.
If I do end up using other sounds, I’d probably set up my registrations to suit.
I noticed there were some suggestions on yammie forum.

So what is this Groovyband.live is talking about? He says even if you lift you RH and change OTS or Reg it still fails???

Rikki, I will try to record something. I do not know how to post it here, but I can figure it out.
I have not given up on the SX yet....and I'm sure I can work it out....a lot of folks are using them with great success.

Open a box account to post songs etc here..

https://www.box.com/home

Can't we post MP3's here?
I'm sure I saw some?

Yes... But then they have to be downloaded....

Hi Lee,
I posted those 2 short files via file manager on this site, it’s just under the box where we write messages.

Donny’s option is the better one, but since I don’t record songs, just share the odd style, not really worth my while.

I think I might delete those 2 MP3’s I posted as they don’t really serve a purpose anymore.

Yes, don’t give up yet, the suggestions the guys on yammie forum may work for you.
As you said, there are so many Yamaha users, some work around must be working for them.
Spend some time on the registrations if you haven’t already done so, maybe for songs with those tied notes you might have to pick more similar type voices for one variation to the next. You can set so much stuff up in registrations. You can set up voices for r/h and not have to alter the ots for that style. So if it’s a one off song causing the problem, maybe you can find voices for that song that may work for you,
or someone mentioned DSPs ? and save to registrations.
I’m guessing maybe those glitches don’t happen with all ots’s with your tied notes, just some.

OK, I just spent a couple hours testing the OTS change function on the SX-900.
Based on great suggestions by the group....I can not make it fail....let me explain.
I am using the Yamaha playlist. I am using only Yamaha registrations called by the playlist. I have not changed anything.

So, Yamaha styles right out of the box. OTS link ON.

IF I do as suggested and be sure to lift my right hand before changing OTS they all work fine, no bad sounds no problems at all. I have done it very fast as well and still is fine. Even with voices that decay pianos, guitars etc...as soon as I lift my hand and hit a different OTS all is good. The previous sound STOPS as I would like and I can immediately use the next voice.

So maybe they fixed this issue? As soon as I lift my RH, and immediately change OTS the sound does STOP immediately....Yeah. I can see where if you hold the RH notes down it can and will cause the bad noises, abrupt change etc....after all you are telling the instrument you want to play the old sound still and switching while it is playing.

A nice menu option might be to kill all notes when you change OTS (just like it does when you lift your hand)...then you could immediately play the next notes that way you could hold notes into the next measure but change the Variation at the measure line.....but I will just use a fill or break instead of changing OTS in the case where a not ties into the next measure.....

And the sounds on the 900 are really great! I do a lot of orchestral stuff and it sure sounds good...

Thanks for the help everyone!

I like the GBL idea off allocating extra resources to whatever is currently playing, allowing it to play out in full even after kicking in the newly selected voices.

It does make for a much smoother transition indeed.

Lee,
I myself use the SX900 OTS LINK ON all the time. Whenever I change the variation, the voices also change automatically with a smooth transition. Even while I hold the Sustain pedal and change the voices, the transition is imperceptible. It has to do with the effects for each voice. I learned a secret, and it worked for me. Whenever I change variation I make sure the new voice is not activated on the previous variation, this way there is no abrupt change. Remember, you can have 3 voices on the right hand. So, let's say you have the Sax voice on the right one of the OTS 1 and if you want to have a electric guitar on the next OTS, make sure you have this electric guitar on the right two and leave the right one muted. This way the transiton is smooth.

Telmo, Great tip, thanks....so far I am using Yamaha's OTS's with the styles from factory....when I get around to doing my own I will keep that is mind.....