I have a friend who has a 5000 with one variation or fill button that doesnt come back...it stays down. What can I tell him has to be done to correct that? Also, I have a song that has numerous chord changes. Is there a better or different way I need to play APC so as to not hear the hesitation when it goes from chord to chord?

Your friends button may need to be replaced,
but not easy to tell by forum.
Too frequently chordchanges is not alway any
good solution on autoaccompaniment keyboards.
You may try to reduse the amount of chords, and
things play just smooth, or better anyway, and
noone will notice if there are missing a eight
or quart or so
GJ

Hi Runner50,

If, by using the word "hesitation", you mean a rapid chord cutoff when changing chords, thus leaving a gap between each chord played, then may I suggest you select the LEFT voice in the sound setting menu, turn on sustain and adjust its length to suit your needs. Chords will then blend together smoothly as you transition from one to the other.

Gunnar's suggestion to use fewer chords is a method I use frequently when faced with too many chords to play and it works great.

Hope this helps.

Chuck

Chuck:

When you play your chords with auto play on, for example, if you hit GBD then went to CEG do you actually lift your 3 fingers off when changing to the next chords or do you leave whatever one may accompany the next chord. I find that the smoothest transition is when I lift off each chord and go to the next.

Would like your opinion...

mike

Hi Chuck and Mike,
I leave the notes that don't change down and just change the finger(s) that are required for the new chord. No hesitation with this method.

This is fine except where you may want to Note Edit the left hand. Here taking the fingers off before each change gives a much clearer display in the edit screen of where the chord changes are, if you want to go in and just correct one mistake in a song.

Agree that chord changes every quarter measure do not usually work unless the backing pattern is very simple, and sometimes chords need to be simplified with a complex backing.

Maybe hesitation has more to do with the timing of the chord change? Are you hitting the chord change just a fraction after the first beat has already started maybe?

Hi:

Please explain "note edit" and a "complex backing". What I have tried to do is hit the chord a fraction of a second before the actual chord comes in to play.

in the sequencer the note edit page provides a piano roll display that is the easiest way to micro edit the odd missed note etc after a performance.
if you change chords by just switching relevant fingers, the whole chord is not represented at the chord change point in the piano roll screen.
say you change from g to g7 just by swapping one finger from d to f.
at the point at which you changed chords, since the g and b notes have been permanently held down, all you see in the piano roll display is a new note of f.
If you lift all fingers before changing chords, at the chord change point you will see 3 new notes of g, b and f.
this is just easier and quicker to find your place in the song when micro editing the odd missed or miss timed chord.

complex backing is variation 4 most of the time. the busier the backing, with the more tracks playing, the worse it tends to sound if you try changing chords every beat, generally speaking, as Gunnar said.

if you are changing chords just before the beat there should not really be any hesitation?

Just a thought runner50 - is the APC being used with the 'MEMORY OFF'? if it is, then the rhythm will of course stop if all keys in the Left hand are released. I could be talking through my hat here !

------------------
Willum

Hi Mike,

Just checked in and I see you asked me a question. Here is the short answer - I always lift my fingers from the keys when changing chords. Now for a more detailed answer. Unlike most keyboardists perhaps, I play all chords in the root position. I like a lot of bass and I like the base to be the root of the chord rather than the fifth or some other note of the chord structure. It just provides a fuller sound and sounds better to my ear. It is a personal choice. It does mean I move my left hand around a lot when, for example, I have to play a Cmaj7, A7, D7, G7, and back to Cmaj7. I've used the more conventional approach, keeping the left hand within a narrow range of keys and playing inversions, but it is not my usual way of playing. Again, as I said, it is all to do with sound rather than ease of playing.

On a different note, Mike. I was stationed east of you at Griffis Air Force Base near Rome, New York in the 1960s. Central New York is beautiful in the summer and Oh so cold in the winter. Never shoveled so much snow in my life!

Happy keyboarding! Chuck

You may want to experiment with Left Part Hold, to see which setting is best for you.

Chuck:

This will be the warmest, least snow on record if March is anything like it started out to be. This am was the coldest we've had this winter (8) but by tomorrow, it will be 45...weekend...in the 50's. Go figure.
Chuck, are you are a musician? Me be a solo guy!!

Hi Mike,

First, as Bob Hendershot says, using Left Hold is another option you have in your attempt to eliminate "gaps" or "hesitations" between chord changes and it works very well in some applications. Experiment with it.

Am I a musician? Yes, but not as a vocation. I began playing the trombone at age 7, studied the instrument for many years and played in marching bands, concert bands, and with the Los Angeles Junior Symphony Orchestra. My fascination with keyboards began in the 1980s while working in Saudi Arabia. I've been taking lessons since last October and am progressing nicely. I have a KN6000 (upgraded to a 6500) and it is a wonderful instrument in my opinion. I can even play the trombone again! Glad to hear you are having a warm winter. I remember working outside on fighters at Griffis AFB when the temperature was 30 degrees below zero. That's cold!

Great talkin' to you, Mike. If you have any other questions, just ask. OK? Take care.

Chuck

Chuck...what do you mean by this?
Remember I have a 3000
First, as Bob Hendershot says, using Left Hold is another option you have in your attempt to eliminate "gaps" or "hesitations" between chord changes and it works very well in some applications. Experiment with it.

there are 2 different functions here.

left hold keeps whatever left voice you have chosen going when you lift your fingers off the keys.

apc memory keeps the automatic accompaniment going while you lift your fingers off the keys.

for left hold to work you need apc memory on in the first place.

with apc memory on there should be no glitches in the accompaniment when changing chords, apart from those when mis-timing chord changes?

Hi Mike and Alec.

First, let me say "thank you" to you, Alec, for sharing your expertise with all of us. I, for one, have learned a great deal from you. You are without doubt an "expert" in the truest sense of that word when it comes to Technics keyboards and indeed a host of other electronic gear and all of us are very fortunate to have you as a friend on these forums.

Mike, I am not familiar with the KN3000, but I am assuming you have similar APC options as those on the KN5000/6000/6500. As Alec points out, you have two separate functions here. First, you have the fundamental APC MEMORY function which keeps the auto rhythm and accompaniment voices playing even if you are not playing a single note or chord with the left hand. Second, you have a LEFT HOLD selection which will sustain the voice you programmed into the LEFT voice in the Conductor section if LEFT HOLD is set to "ON". Setting it to "ON" eliminates any gap between chord changes.

Alec, I know I have just repeated what you said above, but said it slightly differently in the hope that between us, Mike finds an answer to his query.

Take care guys, Chuck

There is a discussion of the Left Hold function at page 114 of the KN3000 owners manual. Depending on how you use APC, this function can have differing effects. Alec and Chuck are right, this is different from the APC memory function.

Hey guys...

Thanks for getting all back to me on this Left Hold stuff. Now I tried it both ways...on and off and I cant tell the difference. What is the default setting? an where might I change it so that is always on?

Press the sound button to get the sound menu. I believe the Left Hold selection is at the bottom left of the display. See page 114 for the matrix of options. I am not certain if this setting is contained in the .LSW file on the KN3000 when you load from or save to a disk. I don't have a KN3000.

[This message has been edited by Bob Hendershot (edited 03-05-2002).]

If you have the sound from a guitar or piano as left instrumentsound,
then it's not easy to hear any difference.
Select organ or strings, see that the volume for that part is not too
low, then you should hear when the left hold is "on", because when your
fingers leave the keys, the organ or strings will continue to hold the
played chord as long as the APC button is on.
If you don't start the rhythm, you'll still have the left chord playing
until you turn off the APC, or start and stop the rhythm.
GJ

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 03-05-2002).]

aw Chuck, you embarrass me thank you.

hi runner, "for left hold to work you need apc memory on in the first place."
you obviously also need the left conductor on.

hi Bob, left hold on the 3000 can be saved in panel memory, I seem to remember. I'm sure I had sequences with left hold in panel memory on the 3000? But it's getting to be a long time ago now...

runner: to have it always on just make a setup file with left hold on and load it every time you switch on. base your work on that setup from then on for that session...

If you use fingered chords and if you have APC memory ON and if you have left part hold OFF, you can use your left hand to embelish the rhythm. You can release the left hand chord and still have the rhythm parts continue in that chord while at the same time the left hand part stops sounding. So if you play the left hand in rhythm, you have a spontaneous rhythm part that you play yourself. If everything else is the same and you turn left part hold ON, the left part will continue to sound even after you release the left hand. (which don't seem to work well for me. . .) We all play our own way. If you use one finger chords or pianist mode, the left hold function doesn't make any difference because you don't have a left part.

[This message has been edited by Bob Hendershot (edited 03-06-2002).]

Hi Bob, left hold is only designed for sustaining voices in addition to the rest of the accompaniment eg strings, horns, voices, the various pad sounds and the like, but left hold does work with one finger chords (if you want it to, that is).

I need to learn something new here, Alec. I never use One Finger mode but I thought that when you selected One Finger mode that the left part could not be turned on at the conductor. How do you turn it on?

I never use one finger mode either, but left is enabled just by switching the conductor on with apc on and left hold enabled. It is independant of whether apc memory is on or off. An extra bonus for one finger left players, I guess.

You are absolutely right. I was trying to do it with Left Hold OFF which is the way I normally play.