if the Oasys is marketed as a workstation ensnareyou and you are dissappointed in its performance in this regard then i am at a loss as to why you rate the MS. Afterall it is marketed as an arranger workstation and yet from what i have heard from the manufacturer in its promotional demos it should be in breach of the trades description act.It simply cannot be used in its curent form by any discerning musician as an arranger. I have spoken to at least 1 user of the MS who reluctantly admits its worthless as an arranger. What do you say as you have both the MS and the Wersi.

Until the MS can have the VST instruments be reliably used by the sequencer, keyboard AND arranger sections, and have the factory develop styles for very specific ones (say Trilogy for bass, DFH for drums, B4 for organs, Ivory for piano, etc.), it is always going to struggle to sound as effective as an arranger that has had all its' styles developed for its' own sound-set.

Add to that, if it continues to be as 'open' as it is now, it is going to need some VERY sophisticated mapping technology, WAY beyond just PC and volume CCs, to batch convert all its' styles to whatever VST you choose. Sophisticated velocity curve mapping comes to mind as a necessity, along with careful re-mapping of hi-hat mappings, as most VST's go WAY beyond GM in their hi-hat control.

The more you think about the concept of an 'open' arranger, the more you realize the difficulty of developing styles that will work with whatever VSTs the end user chooses. From what I've heard of the factory demos, the on-board sounds compare poorly to even a mid-line arranger, yet alone approach the T2, etc.. And unfortunately, THAT is what the styles are being developed for....

I think it would be far better for Domenik to do a deal with a few decent VST instrument developers, license their sounds, and develop for them... Include their price in the main price (after all, who is going to buy one of these and NOT go out and get several really good VSTs, anyway?) and finally have something that WOULD make even a T2 owner go wow!

For using MS you need to change your way of thinking. This is not closed system.
You can not see and hear all in one day, even if you use only factory presets. But really good is that you can play styles from box. Problem is only that here is huge amount of styles. Some of them are good some of them need modification. Same thing is with sounds.

New big GIGA bank offers you a lot of options sounds.
This is possible in this moment; Other new advantages will be in some days out.

About VST I can tell you, that here is a lot of opportunity to do you is the best sound. I don’t want to tell you, what the best side of MS is. You must see alone what you need.

And guys please don’t say me that this keyboard is sounds like middle rang keyboard. I know that is possible a lot more. But I saw that you are all the time attacking if somebody is sheering some good song with you. I want only to hear good conversation not aggressions.


MY FAVORIT KEYBOARD IS: TO HAVE ALL OPEN AND THAT I CAN ADD WHAT I NEED.

I dont wanna sound like a broken record but how many times do i have to ask for a demo of the MS with giga styles that sounds good and yet actually hear demos that sound bad ? How many times can we be told that it will get better , or that it takes work to get it sounding better ? I might even be bothered to put in the work if i could hear a demo where perhaps you Dom have actually put in the work so that it at least sounds comparable with other topline arrangers. I am not trying to bring either you or your product down. I wish you every success with this forward thinking venture but you will only get honest feedback frokm me. Thats all. No offence intended.The MS is supposed to be a high end arranger. Wheres the evidence ?

A factory produced demo...WOW, how many of us are ever going to sound like the "factory demo" [as the E80 demo]..

Asking for a better demo..is a cop out..Sometimes we have to justify..not buying an instrument, not because the demo doesn't sound like another, but because it may be out of our financial reach..

As for the open ended instruments..you have heard everything you need to hear..they re produce what you want...

The VST instruments are all well know, and they play as you would expect them to...perfect..

Styles are styles..the MS[for example] is the tool, it will play any style you want..if you want a Tyros style..done..a G70 style...done..

Domenik is even clearing the way to load the same sounds[same samples] from [as an example] the Tyros2 to use with the Tyros2 styles..[already mapped]..

If you folks can't understand the benefits of open ended instruments like the Wersi and MediaStation..it doesn't matter what demo you listen to...you are not a canidate [most likely] to own a Wersi or MS..

As for improvements along the way..Domenik has continualy added features, with a much wanted LS4...

Hi Fran nice to have you back. I take it that you actually bought the MS from Dom and not as a broker/dealer for Liontracs ? Either way i hope it does all you want it too.

However its really ill considered if a manufacturer expects people to buy a product just on the strength of their word. I dont have the time to purchase every keyboard product out there just on the length of the spec sheet. I filter them by

1. The manufacturers best demos
2. What i have heard from other users
3. By playing it myself
4. then i might buy

I wont get to stage 3 if the first two stages indicate that the machine is not worth my time.I might be unique in this but i doubt it.

It doesnt matter how much the manufacturer tries to convince me that once i have purchased the instrument it will sound great and do all the stuff i dreamed of, or that it will when "the next update" becomes available next week,month,year.... if they cant demonstrate that before i buy. I listened to your demo of the instrument before it was pulled and it certainly was not a manufacturers demo.

However it was very illuminating.

Apologies bto Ensnareyou. I dont want to deviate too much from your thread. Having owned the MS and Wersi and having obvious experience of other arrangers whats your honest opinion of the MS as an arranger as it came to you ?

[This message has been edited by spalding4 (edited 01-31-2007).]

[This message has been edited by spalding4 (edited 01-31-2007).]

Either the MS can be made to sound better than the T2 or E80, or it can't....

If it can....PROVE IT.

If not.... MOVE ON....!

How many of these things have been sold? Can ANYONE post some work done solely with it that comes anywhere near the T2 demos (they are far more representative of what the average good player will be able to achieve than the Roland sequences - they are sequences of heavily edited style play)?

Plenty of people posting examples of what they have achieved on Rolands and Yamahas. Some of them EXTREMELY good sounding. Where are the user demos of the MS? There are more people posting 'for sale' threads than demos......

You draw your own conclusions......

Its not a studio factory demo like the ones we are amazed..when we hear..

Here is a MP3 recorded out of the phone jack of the MS into my laptop..[that is why it is noisy..the outputs of the MS are super quiet..

It is recorded using the worst sounds possible on the MS..the Dream chip[ soundbank]..the internal rom sounds..No VST's were used..
http://download.yousendit.com/F485BA9072042CF6

Now I am moving on

Well then Fran.....

I guess theres nothing else to say !

I hate it when people start making excuses for a demo in their introduction of a demo. You just know its mot going to inspire confidence in what you are about to hear.

Fran why did you post this demo ? Why pick the worst internal sounds and the worst style to demo this "open instrument " ? I already know the internal sounds are poor. I already know the styles are weak. Is this some sort of reverse psychology thing ?
The whole potential USP of the media station is its ability to play VST/Giga, import the best styles etc so that it will sound like the best arranger in the market place. Are you honestly telling me that you would pick this instrument over even your 10 year old roland G1000 ? Is this for real ??????

Like i said before, it would seem neither the company nor its supporters despite request after request can demonstrate the open capability in demos that sound even marginally better than an entry level casio.

Well the case is closed for me.I've probbly said too much already.