Originally posted by ianmcnll: [B] I certainly did not imply in any way that you were a "gear snob', but I did suppose that considering your extensive experience in the production of music, that perhaps considering a "home system" for certain venues would not be a stretch....but perhaps I spoke too soon.
You would consider, and have used a "home keyboard" for professional grade audio production, so perhaps you might seem a bit hypocritical to many of us here on SZ in where a high grade "home" product can be applied in one situation, and yet not in another.
We have NEVER taken the Tyros on a Gig. Not that I would not consider it. We don;t need it. My wife takes 88 every time. If there are stairs she even takes the smaller Casio Previa 320 by necessity more than choice, If not its the RD700.
We had a Mackie /JBL MR system which became too heavy. The best system we could fine fixing that weight issue without sacrificing fidelity, were the Bose. . We DO use the Tyro to create some of the track parts for backing. When Play with her I would take The Tyros but only to play lead parts and a few SMFs I may use use. We already have her backing tracks on a notebook. We have NEVER taken the Tyros on a Gig. My wife takes 88 every time. If there are stairs she even takes the smaller Casio Previa 320 by necessity more than choice, If not its the RD700.
Quote:
I don't cut corners either, and my well finished and equally well received product and my above average monetary compensation for my employment reflect this work ethic and attention to detail...but I use what works best for me, and would not worry about what others think of the equipment I use.
We do think about what those who pay us think of our gear, but more importantly the SOUND. In they sometimes complain about other acts and their choice PA Systems. I believe one's gear is an indication of one's commitment to superior product and shows they are not afraid to invest in themselves. Contrary to poular believe F&B guys and Entertainment Directors are not stupid
Quote:
Having no allegiance to a certain way of production has always been an advantage not a disadvantage to my career...many times my straying from the "norm" or "industry standard" has resulted in a more unique product, and because it sounded, or was expressed differently than the other "cookie cutter" methods, it stood out from them enough to get the right kind of attention.
That's a good thing for you, unfortunately we don't know what exactly is a detriment or help to our careers except when a venue extends our contracts or has us back as soon as possible. The Bose neatly falls "outside the norm" but is always received with open arms in fact the Casio Cruise where my wife plays she recommended and and receive two Bose tower installations after demoing her own. Since she is put doors on the top deck of a sea going vessel she did not want to bring ours. They are holding up better then expected for the past8 months now outdoors!! They get the right kind of attention......None.
Quote:
That is why I find it a bit difficult to accept that someone with your production values, would not want the instrument to sound at it's finest, rather than endure a one dimensional and poorly animated arranger audio that is emitted from a single Bose system.[QUOTE]
The system DOES sound better. Professional mixing engineers don;t mix in Stereo as a generl rule. Dual mono maybe.
[QUITE]A single Bose system was meant/designed for single performers (or individual band members)...and clearly not for the complexities of an arranger/workstation which is essentially a full band in stereo, and it shows it's inadequacies relatively early in the game...the only real or acceptable way around it, is to use two systems in stereo, an avenue I have considered, as I buy sound systems far less often than the other tools of my trade.[QUOTE]
I am not going to take the bait on the Bose System here except to say for the money it is for us the best possible solution for a variety of performance and transport issues we could find. We are not handicapped by expense when it comes to putting money into the business of performance. We even kept the JBL/Mackie set up awhile until we were sure the venues would accept the unusual PAS. We are not concerned about Stereo I have played in 5000 seat arenas with mono systems and 1000 seat theaters with mono systems. Pro live sound engineers are not that anxious to wire in Stereo regardless of what keyboard is being used. They understand the difficulties of sound travel and its effect on the fringes. Sure it sounds great at home and on a dance floor where there are four overheads on the corners. But in a large room with 180 degrees of seating we find it a hindrance more than an addition; The Casino boat we ride has a dual Bose set up and we run it at 11-1 to keep things center focused in a long NARROW area.
[QUOTE]I'm sure those who use a single Bose system (mono) are very satisfied with the unit's performance, as evidenced by the several posts here on SZ, but there are an equal number of us that have tried it in mono and found it very lacking...I want the best system possible(and transportable) for my needs, because, let's face it...we are ultimatley "playing the speaker" and a single Bose is just too much of a compromise...stereo pianos, effects and other DSP like rotary speaker, are quite lackluster if you listen to the single sytem compared to the stereo double system.
I don't "hard pan" my instruments so that there is a distinct sweet spot...I pan just enough to separate and widen the dispersal...a single Bose does not let me do this to an acceptable level, and I would consider it "cutting corners"...I know you don't, but it is me and my audience/listener that I intend to please....not you, or anybody else.
My largest concern is and will always be. ALL the audience member hearing the EXACT SAME MUSIC. ANY pro live mixer has the same mission. The SAME program heard the same way form anywhere in the room.
Quote:
The Logitech Z-5500 is an awesome system, certainly designed for another purpose than for "live" use on an arranger...but it works admirably in both applications.
I can't agree with small Computer speakers being a viable alternative to anything professional except perhaps in a 200 SF room of 30 people.
Quote:
The single Bose system is also designed for another purpose rather than for use on an arranger keyboard...it works far less laudably in it's other role, in my opinion.[QUOTE]
Not so. Stereo is simply not all that important outside the living room. Few keyboad amps are in stereo. If they are the drivers are inches apart. I simply believe like pro sound mixers the first mission is to get even and EQUAL sound to every corner of the room including those 180 degrees off axis, This works whether in a Sports arena or 100 seat lounge. As many who play out know. Management puts the entertainment in strange areas and not exactly perfect for a standard 2 way stereo box speaker system.
A well designed mono system will satisfy more people than a terribly implemented stereo system and even the best stereo designed system is hostage to the acoustical issues on the room If the seating and room design doesn't effective stereo playback, giving up a personally desirable requirement like stereo is paramonut for the best experience.
[QUOTE]I still find it difficult to believe you would compromise your sound, considering you come across as a person that would not skimp in any area of production...but, I'll get over it, as I'm sure you will too.
What you consider compromise I considered well thought out based on my experience with far larger venues and many professional sound mixer conversations and (monitor pissing matches LOL never forget he has the "suck button"). You will find at the pro level most experienced sound mixers run stereo systems in dual mono. They will tell you that that the ENTIRE listening area must have equal coverage of both the left and right sides, at pretty equal levels to be effective as your home stereo. Even then comb filtering can result if one is not careful but this thing about stereo being the end all is purely psychological based on experiences that happen mostly in small places like the car and the home.
Go to a Stereo Eagles concert and sit on either side. you will pay for the whole show but hear 1/2 the harmonies unequally balanced some of the music missing or terribly unequal in volume. In my early days back in the late 70's I worked for the local IATSE and worked as a Union laborer,cable puller, truck loader and Super Trooper operator for every bands that that came into the San Diego Sports Arena in the 70's,The only band I can remember that came in with an discreetly audio separated system was the Quadraphonic concert Pink Floyd used on the DSOM tour. All Clair Bros and Showco Sound contractors. Mono Mono Mono.... I believe that is still true today for 90% of all live shows and with good reason.
That said my wife even prefers stereo, but again thats from HER stand point exactly between the mix. She is not hearing what those siting way off axis are hearing. Old habits are hard to break even when the audience benefits more than the artist.
[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-23-2009).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4 Yamaha Motif XS8 Roland RD700 Casio PX-330 Martin DC Aura Breedlove ATlas Solo Bose MOD II PA